Is Death Sleep?

[hraedisc]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]In what condition was man created?[/font]​

[font=Times New Roman, Times]"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that Thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels." Heb. 2:6, 7.[/font]​

[font=Times New Roman, Times]What is the nature of angels?​

"But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage; neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." Luke 20:35, 36.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]What are angels called?​

"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire." Heb. 1:7.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]What is the difference between the two Adams?​

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1 Cor. 15:45.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Adam was made a living soul; but was he not a spiritual man?​

"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." 1 Cor. 15:46.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]When does man become a spiritual being?​

"It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body, There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." 1 Cor. 15:44.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]To what does the sowing refer?​

"That which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die." 1 Cor. 15:36.
[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - Man does not have the undying, spiritual nature of the angels until the resurrection. Then, if righteous, he cannot die anymore ( Luke 20:36), because he is "equal unto the angels."[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]How is man's nature defined?​

"Shall mortal man be more just than God?" Job 4:17. [/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - Mortal. "Subject to death." Webster.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]What is God's nature?​

"Now unto the King, eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." 1 Tim. 1:17.[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - Immortal. "Exempt from liability to die." Webster.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Of what was man formed in the beginning?​

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground." Gen. 2:7.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]What act made him a living soul?​

"And [God] breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:7.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Are others besides man called "living souls" in the Bible?​

"And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea, and it became as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea." Rev. 16:3. (See Gen. 1:30, margin.)[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Do other creatures besides man have the "breath of life?"​

"And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of foul, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man; all in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died." Gen. 7:21, 22.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Is theirs the same breath as man's?​

"As the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all [/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]one breath; [/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]so that a man hath no pre-eminence above a beast; for all is vanity." Ecc. 3:19.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]The breath of life from God was breathed into man's nostrils in the beginning. What does Job call that which is in the nostrils?​

"All the while my breath is in me. and the spirit of God is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]When man gives up the spirit, what becomes of it?​

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Eccl. 12:7.
[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - That is, the spirit of life by which man lived, and which was only loaned to him of God, goes back to the great Author of life. It is His, and man can have it eternally, only as a gift from God, through Jesus Christ. (Rom. 6:23.)When the spirit goes back to God, the dust, which was in the beginning made a "living soul," goes back as it was, to the earth.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Can one have the spirit of life with him eternally. unless he has Christ?​

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Why were the first guilty pair driven from the tree of life?​

"And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." Gen. 3:22.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]What was done to keep man away from the tree of life?​

"So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Gen. 3:24.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]How are all men in the natural state regarded?​

"We all... were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." Eph. 2:3.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]If the wrath of God abides on a person, of what does it deprive him?​

"He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]Through whom is the sinner saved from wrath?​

"Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him." Rom. 5:9.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]When the sinner has been converted, what then is his prospect for life?​

"For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory." Col. 3:3, 4.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]The word immortal occurs but once in the English Bible (1 Tim. 1:17) , and is there applied to God; is any other said to have immortality?​

"Who is the blessed and only potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords: who only hath immortality." 1Tim. 6:15, 16.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]How is this desirable boon brought to light?​

"But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." 2 Tim 1:10.
[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - Then without the gospel one cannot have immortality, but the death penalty must abide on him. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]How does man obtain immortality?​

"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, (God will give) eternal life." Rom. 2:7.
[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - One does not need to seek for a thing which he already possesses.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]When will the faithful receive immortality?​

"Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." 1 Cor. 15:51, 52.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]What is then to be swallowed up?​

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Cor. 15:54.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]How is this victory gained?​

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1Cor. 15:51.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]SUMMARY. - We have found that man was made of the dust of the ground, and caused to live by the breath, or spirit, of life from God. The clay thus animated, not the breath of life, is called a "living soul:" or creature, according to the original text. Other creatures live by the same process, and some of them, at least, are plainly called living souls. When man dies, he knows nothing until he lives again, simply because the vitalizing element that caused him to live and move and think has been taken from him, and gone back to its original Possessor. Unless that were brought back to man, he would be forever unconscious in death. But Christ, who is the believer's life, is to appear, and bring back to those who seek for it, that life which they forfeited through sin. It is thus that man obtains immortality.[/font]​

 

[deu58]

Hi <><

My position is rock solid. Immortality is ONLY given as a GIFT. Sinful Man doesn't possess it naturally.

If we do not posses it then why are we given a choice where to spend it. Contrary to your position the Bible is clear. The spirit lives forever.

You are given a choice today of where you will spend eternity tomorrow.

If the second death is complete annihalation of the wicked spirit then really what is the point of waking them up in the first place?????

Sounds like waking somebody up to give them a sleeping pill. Your concept of this sounds much like those who cannot accept the commands God gave Israel to kill women and children but there it is in scripture and there it is in again in the book of Revelation.

male and female young and old will suffer horribly in this life and the life to come for rejecting Gods gift of his son.

We always think that because we would not do something that God would not do it either.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Yours in Christ
deu58

 

[deu58]

Hello<><

The spirit of man and the spirit of the beast are not the same.

Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

What was Pauls desire? To sleep and wait for the Lord or depart and be with the Lord?

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[deu58]

Hello<><

Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

In vision John sees a great multitude in Heaven.

Re 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Re 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Notice these are identified as those who have {past/present tense} come of great tribulation. It does not say these are those who will {future tense} come out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

They are already in Heaven before Christ comes again.


2co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

2co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Nothing seems to agree with your position as to the state of mans spirit after departing the flesh


yours in Christ
deu58

 

[hraedisc]

Hi <><


If we do not posses it (immortality)...

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." Gen. 3:22.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:15.

"But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." 2 Tim 1:10.

"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, (God will give) eternal life." Rom. 2:7.​

Man does not possess immortality away from the gift of God through the gospel.

 

[hraedisc]

Hello<><



What was Pauls desire? To sleep and wait for the Lord or depart and be with the Lord?

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

yours in Christ
deu58

Wrong interpretation.

Philippians 1:23
​

"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:"

Paul does not say in this text that he will go to be with Christ when he dies. He undoubtedly was using the word "depart" in reference to his death. But the Bible clearly reveals that Paul did not believe his "departure" would mean immediate entrance into heaven. Here's the proof: "The time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day; and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." 2 Timothy 4:6-8.

Since Paul obviously did not expect to get his eternal crown at his departure in death, when was it that he anticipated actually being with Christ? "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven ... and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. There it is. Paul's desire to depart and be with Christ involved the resurrection that would take place at the end of the world. Since the unconscious sleep of death is like a moment, Paul speaks of death and the coming of Christ as almost simultaneous. And so it will seem to those who depart and awake from death to see Jesus coming.

 

[hraedisc]

2 Corinthians 5:6-8​

"Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: .... We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

In verses 1-8, Paul is contrasting the present mortal state with the future immortal life in heaven. Notice the expressions he uses for the two conditions:

earthly house.............................. building of God​

this tabernacle........................... house not made with hands

mortality....................................... our house which is from heaven

in the body................................. absent from the body

absent from the Lord................ present with the Lord

Paul speaks of being clothed with "our house which is from heaven" Verse 2. He longs "that mortality might be swallowed up of life." Verse 4. But the key to the entire discourse lies in the description of a third condition. After desiring to be clothed with immortality, Paul States that "being clothed we shall not be found naked." Verse 3. Putting it yet another way, he said, "Not for that we would be unclothed." Verse 4.

Clearly the naked or unclothed state was neither mortality nor immortality, but death and the grave. Paul realized that one did not pass instantly from being clothed with this tabernacle into being clothed with our house from heaven. Death and the grave came in between, and he referred to this as being unclothed and naked.

In another text Paul spelled out exactly when that change from mortality would take place. In 1 Corinthians 15:52, 53, he wrote, "The trumpet shall sound ... and this mortal must put on immortality." That will be when Jesus comes.

 

[hraedisc]

Hello<><

Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

In vision John sees a great multitude in Heaven.

Re 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Re 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Notice these are identified as those who have {past/present tense} come of great tribulation. It does not say these are those who will {future tense} come out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

They are already in Heaven before Christ comes again.


deu58

It hasn't happened yet, but John saw it. John is shown the future. This is no way contradicts the truth of the Bible.

 

[hraedisc]

If any think that this position is strange or new, see what other CHRISTIANS and SCHOLARS from previous centuries believed:

WAIT for page to LOAD!

[url="http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310792&postcount=39"]http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310792&postcount=39[/url]

[url="http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310796&postcount=40"]http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310796&postcount=40[/url]

[url="http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310801&postcount=41"]http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310801&postcount=41[/url]

[url="http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310805&postcount=42"]http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310805&postcount=42[/url]

[url="http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310811&postcount=43"]http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310811&postcount=43[/url]

[url="http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310823&postcount=45"]http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8310823&postcount=45[/url]

 

[statrei]

Hi statrei

I
Well ok, what are the practical implications?

For starters, if all the righteous returned to Heaven at death and were reunited with God what would be the use of Christ coming to earth to redeem us? Secondly, why would it be something special that Moses, Enoch and Elijah were taken to heaven? Why would we need a resurrection at the Second Coming if the righteous are already in Heaven. It can't be to reclaim this earthly body. A body was prepared for Jesus. All God would do is make new bodies. In any event 2 Cor. 5:8 does not say to be dead is to be present with the Lord.

Darius

 

[deu58]

Hello <><

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." Gen. 3:22.

Immortality as a flesh creature. That is what God is warning about. If Adam and Eve would have partaken of the fruit final judgment would have to be passed immediately. There would have been no possibility of saving the spirit.

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." Gen. 3:22.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:15.

"But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." 2 Tim 1:10.


"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, (God will give) eternal life." Rom. 2:7.

These verses are the Promises of receiving entrance in to the Kingdom. If you do not go into the Kingdom you go into the pit. Where Jesus said their WORM DIETH NOT!

What is the opposite of eternal Life? Eternal death. but it is not a death of sleep or annihilation. It is being separated forever from the source of life itself for eternity.

.Mt 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Total darkness, No light, no life, just suffering for eternity

Paul does not say in this text that he will go to be with Christ when he dies. He undoubtedly was using the word "depart" in reference to his death.

You think that because Paul refers to receiving his crown at a future Judgment this means he believed in soul sleep? The Scripture is clear that the Judgment of rewards is future. Paul is saying he is assured of his crown on that day and he will await that day in the presence and company of the Lord.

Clearly the naked or unclothed state was neither mortality nor immortality, but death and the grave. Paul realized that one did not pass instantly from being clothed with this tabernacle into being clothed with our house from heaven. Death and the grave came in between, and he referred to this as being unclothed and naked.

You have added your own meaning to these words. The phrase to" be found naked "refers to being unsaved and not possessing Christ's righteousness . It is a term to describe shame. Spiritual poverty and despair. Not the grave.

Mt 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Mt 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Eze 16:22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.

Ho 2:3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.

Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

It hasn't happened yet, but John saw it. John is shown the future. This is no way contradicts the truth of the Bible.

I agree with half of what you say, it in no way contradicts the Bible. Future? According to the Bible this is the future,

1 Christ Returns,

Re 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

2 Satan is bound and the Millennial Kingdom begins. We are not in Heaven.

Re 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

3 Satan is released, defeated Great White Throne Judgment

Re 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

4 All is made new

Re 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

5 The Throne of God is in the New Jerusalem here on earth. Not in Heaven.

Re 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Notice these are identified as those who have {past/present tense} come of great tribulation. It does not say these are those who will {future tense} come out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

If Gods Throne is upon the Earth in the New Jerusalem then the multitude must be before his throne in the Heaven that had been done away with.


This verse to precedes the New Heaven and the second coming

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Re 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

If any think that this position is strange or new, see what other CHRISTIANS and SCHOLARS from previous centuries believed:

I never said it was a new position and it goes all the way back to Old Testament Times. I said I believe it to be in error

Mt 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

yours in Christ
DEU58

 

[statrei]

Consider the the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. Do they seem unconscious or asleep? The prophets Elijah and Moses appeared to Christ. Were they asleep. St John saw the saints crying to God from below the alter in heaven. Were they crying in their sleep?

Do you really believe that heaven and hell are so close that they can talk back and forth? I'm sure you don't. And, if Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom in whose bosom would we find Abraham. Do you think anyone in the fires of hell would think that a drop of water would cool their tongue?

The facts clearly demonstrate that this story should not be taken as a factual account of what happens after death.

 

[Symes]

Do you really believe that heaven and hell are so close that they can talk back and forth? I'm sure you don't. And, if Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom in whose bosom would we find Abraham. Do you think anyone in the fires of hell would think that a drop of water would cool their tongue?

The facts clearly demonstrate that this story should not be taken as a factual account of what happens after death.

A parable was never told to deifine a doctrinal issue.

Jesus told parables to illustrate a certain point.

This one told about Lazarus was never meant to be used to prove that there are people in heaven that can talk to those in hell.

Look at it from a logical point of view. Would you want to see loved ones being burnt in hell?

Abraham must have a huge bosom if he is going to have people with him.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also ° died, and was buried;

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

[deu58]

Hi Symes
according to scripture we will see them burning.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

I know it seems harsh but if verse 23 is literal then 24 must be to.

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[seangoh]

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

I know it seems harsh but if verse 23 is literal then 24 must be to.

yours in Christ
deu58

Hi deu58, allow me to interject.
Isaiah was referring this prophecy to the Jews. It is telling them that when they finally reach the land of Canaan, they would be able to enjoy all this priviledges. Look at Isa 65:17-25. Over there you read that they will build houses and no man would come and take it away and they are able to plant their own vineyards. The Israelites did not have a place where they could call their home and thus they were wandering nomads. Telling them about such a promise is almost too amazing to them already. Furthermore, we read that "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; "v20

We understand that the text is saying that people will live out their years and there will be no premature deaths. But there will still be deaths. So obviously this cannot be applied to the heaven to come. Isaiah was describing conditions which are amazing for them already but still a far cry from the heaven to come. So in order to understand the whole idea of what it's talking about, we must realise that some of the old testament prophecies has a primary application to those in the past AND a secondary application to us.

A few examples i can think of is the conquest of Babylon by Cyrus in 539BC. There, it prophesies of the Euphrates river being dried up. In Revelation, we see that the Euphrates river would be dried up in the end. So looking from Revelation's perspective, the story of Cyrus' victory becomes an allusion.

Another example would be us being termed "spiritual Jews". The gospel commission was meant for the Jews to handle. Apparantly, they failed and thus, the gospel initiative was transferred to gentiles (spiritual Jews).

 

[Symes]

Hi Symes
according to scripture we will see them burning.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

I know it seems harsh but if verse 23 is literal then 24 must be to.

yours in Christ
deu58

It looks as though the saved will see the wicked burn. They will be able to see them burn if it is God's will. If it does it will be from inside the New Jerusalem.

 

[deu58]

Hi seangoh

I understand where you are coming from but if we look we see this prophesy parallels Revelation.

Isa 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Re 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Re 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The promises of his coming {second advent}

Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

We seem to have a view of the millennial Kingdom, i.e. human life extended/ live as long as trees, universal peace/ lions eating straw. None of these things have yet come to pass


Re 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

The fulfillment of the New Jerusalem

Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Re 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Re 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


The above verses indicates the end time and the beginning of our eternal state saved and the unsaved. The key word being from one new moon/from one sabbath indicating perpetual worship not confined to a 24 hour period . The eternal promised rest/sabbath that every believer longs for. Every thing we use to measure time has been done away with.

These events in Isaiah and Revelation are still in our future.

yours in Christ
DEU58

 

[hraedisc]

Bump - please review my former posts on this thread.

 

[PaladinValer]

Don't resurrect old threads!

 

[truthcounsellor]

[font=Times New Roman, Times]SUMMARY. - We have found that man was made of the dust of the ground, and caused to live by the breath, or spirit, of life from God. The clay thus animated, not the breath of life, is called a "living soul:" or creature, according to the original text. Other creatures live by the same process, and some of them, at least, are plainly called living souls. When man dies, he knows nothing until he lives again, simply because the vitalizing element that caused him to live and move and think has been taken from him, and gone back to its original Possessor. Unless that were brought back to man, he would be forever unconscious in death. But Christ, who is the believer's life, is to appear, and bring back to those who seek for it, that life which they forfeited through sin. It is thus that man obtains immortality.[/font]​

Much of what you have written is quite good. There is a question that remains, however, as to the exact nature of the "life of the flesh" and what you've described as it's "vitalizing element." Spirit, as we know, has no form nor comliness. It is plainly not "bound" by the physical. (Agreed?) So, how is it that the "life of the flesh" is contained "in the blood"? Surely there is something "physical" that is very closely associated with the soul. Wouldn't you agree?

TC