Is Creationism a Fairy Tale?

[nuttypiglet]

Yes. However, to clear up any confusion, most fossils were created by much less dramatic processes. There was not an extinction event characterizing every fossil we find; in fact, extinction events have the opposite effect and cause us to suddenly find many fewer fossils

Scientists do not believe that velociraptors evolved into birds. This is similar to believing that chimpanzees evolved into humans. Actually, the current scientific consensus is more along the lines of "birds are the only surviving dinosaurs" than "dinosaurs evolved into birds."

Both. Velociraptors went extinct, as did nearly all species of dinosaurs, including most birds, but a few species managed to survive, though we have fossil evidence for only one (source):


I'm going to resist making the easy joke here Anyway, no such cognitive dissonance is required since there is no contradiction here.

when looking at the skeleton structure of velociraptor, I notice that it obviously has hip, knee and ankle joints and the ankle is slightly high due to the large feet. Are there fossils which show the transition of the ankle rising up the limb to be a knee? making the legs angle the opposite way.

 

[JWGU]

when looking at the skeleton structure of velociraptor, I notice that it obviously has hip, knee and ankle joints and the ankle is slightly high due to the large feet. Are there fossils which show the transition of the ankle rising up the limb to be a knee? making the legs angle the opposite way.

I have absolutely no idea. That seems a bit presumptuous as to how jointed limbs formed, given that many insects have them. Have you looked it up?

 

[nuttypiglet]

I have absolutely no idea. That seems a bit presumptuous as to how jointed limbs formed, given that many insects have them. Have you looked it up?

Well I have read a substantial amount of material on the subject. I'm not speaking about jointed limbs? I was referring to the unique characteristics of the birds legs. Unlike other land animals, they have femurs which do not move and have the function of supporting the air sacs for respiration. This means they don't have functional hips, rather the ankle has raised up to become the knee and their legs face backwards. Obviously Science can't contribute anything with conventional methods, observe, test etc, but perhaps some forensic evidence could be applied. However, the problem is the lack of forensic evidence and the number of mutations required are astounding. The hip joint of animals walking on 4 limbs is closer to that of a birds, when you would expect animals walking on 2 limbs to be closer. The pelvic bone on birds is facing the other way too. With all that aside, I guess the biggest mystery, which is also a confusing issue with Science, is how the femur, pelvis, knees evolved in such a way to allow survival. What I mean is, with the femur being so important in supporting the air sacs and fused in position, how could this have simply evolved? With other bones altering, and no fixed femur, the air sacs would simply collapse, meaning the animal wouldn't be able to breathe. So many different aspects seem to evolve at the same time, independent of each other, yet achieving the best results. How likely is this? well I will leave this open to debate.

 

[lasthero]

How do you know it's the best result ?

 

[nuttypiglet]

How do you know it's the best result ?

what would you suggest would be better?

 

[lasthero]

what would you suggest would be better?

I have none. That doesn't mean it's the best. How do you judge the way they are is the best way they could be? What criteria are you using to determine that?

 

[Oncedeceived]

In Pakistan there were some teenager girls shot and killed because they dared to go on protest, for equal rights in education. Still, the Koran basically says a female is nothing more than something on the bottom of a mans shoe.
I believe Jewish law states you can be married at 11 years old? but of course they no longer practice that.
Which God do Muslims believe in? none. There are prayers in the Koran to ask for the power of deceit. Who do Christians call the Deceiver? it is not God.

Here in the US some man killed his daughter because she was taking on too much of our culture. I think that she had an american boy friend too if I remember right.

 

[nuttypiglet]

I have none. That doesn't mean it's the best. How do you judge the way they are is the best way they could be? What criteria are you using to determine that?

and exactly why does that really matter? If you have no input, then I fail to see any relevance to this. Am I correct in assuming you have a lot of friends?

 

[lasthero]

and exactly why does that really matter? If you have no input, then I fail to see any relevance to this. Am I correct in assuming you have a lot of friends?

I'm not giving input, I'm just asking a simple question. How do you know the way they're built is the best way they could be? If a baker said he made the best cake, and I asked him what made his cake the best, he would just tell me what made his the best based on his criteria. If you say something the best, you have to have some method of judging it as such.

 

[nuttypiglet]

I'm not giving input, I'm just asking a simple question. How do you know the way they're built is the best way they could be? If a baker said he made the best cake, and I asked him what made his cake the best, he would just tell me what made his the best based on his criteria. If you say something the best, you have to have some method of judging it as such.

If you are told a cake is the best, you TASTE it and judge for yourself and form an opinion. No matter what the baker says doesn't matter does it. If a cake doesn't taste the best then it ISN'T the best.

Next

 

[OllieFranz]

If you are told a cake is the best, you TASTE it and judge for yourself and form an opinion. No matter what the baker says doesn't matter does it. If a cake doesn't taste the best then it ISN'T the best.

Next

So then when you said it was the best, you were saying that in your opinion and based on your limited experience, it was the best. And what someone else thinks, even the Designer, doesn't matter. Good to know.

 

[lasthero]

If a cake doesn't taste the best then it ISN'T the best.

In order for me to say such a statement, I would have to taste every cake in the world, which isn't even remotely feasible. The most I could say is it's the best I've ever tasted.

That's sort of the problem, here - you're saying this structure is the best, but you're not comparing it to anything. You're producing no criteria to judge that with. The best in relation to what? How do you know it couldn't be better? How is it objectively so, and not simply your opinion?

 

[nuttypiglet]

In order for me to say such a statement, I would have to taste every cake in the world, which isn't even remotely feasible. The most I could say is it's the best I've ever tasted.

That's sort of the problem, here - you're saying this structure is the best, but you're not comparing it to anything. You're producing no criteria to judge that with. The best in relation to what? How do you know it couldn't be better? How is it objectively so, and not simply your opinion?

Has anyone ever told you that you are like a wasp at a picnic?
Why the silly perfection on every single typed word? MOVE ON

 

[lasthero]

Has anyone ever told you that you are like a wasp at a picnic?
Why the silly perfection on every single typed word? MOVE ON

I'm not asking for perfection, I'm asking you to explain your reasoning. It's not an extreme request. Do you typically say things and have no idea why you said them?

Why say something is 'the best result' when you have absolutely no idea what makes it 'the best result'?

 

[OllieFranz]

I'm not asking for perfection, I'm asking you to explain your reasoning. It's not an extreme request. Do you typically say things and have no idea why you said them?

Why say something is 'the best result' when you have absolutely no idea what makes it 'the best result'?

Lasthero --

In his cake analogy, he has already indicated that it is just his uninformed opinion, and that not even God disagreeing with him will change his mind. In other words, anything he says is meaningless in this discussion. What more do you need before you just ignore anything he has to say?

 

[biggles53]

Well I have read a substantial amount of material on the subject. I'm not speaking about jointed limbs? I was referring to the unique characteristics of the birds legs. Unlike other land animals, they have femurs which do not move and have the function of supporting the air sacs for respiration. This means they don't have functional hips, rather the ankle has raised up to become the knee and their legs face backwards. Obviously Science can't contribute anything with conventional methods, observe, test etc, but perhaps some forensic evidence could be applied. However, the problem is the lack of forensic evidence and the number of mutations required are astounding. The hip joint of animals walking on 4 limbs is closer to that of a birds, when you would expect animals walking on 2 limbs to be closer. The pelvic bone on birds is facing the other way too. With all that aside, I guess the biggest mystery, which is also a confusing issue with Science, is how the femur, pelvis, knees evolved in such a way to allow survival. What I mean is, with the femur being so important in supporting the air sacs and fused in position, how could this have simply evolved? With other bones altering, and no fixed femur, the air sacs would simply collapse, meaning the animal wouldn't be able to breathe. So many different aspects seem to evolve at the same time, independent of each other, yet achieving the best results. How likely is this? well I will leave this open to debate.

Looks to me like a main course of Serial Trials Fallacy, with a side salad of Argument from Incredulity.......

 

[[serious]]

If creationism is a fairy tale, what other fairy tale has generated so much debate and gotten so much attention in the academic world?

Any specific answers?

This one (evolution) doesn't count ...

[youtube]FZFG5PKw504[/youtube]

Santa claus.

 

[AV1611VET]

Santa claus.

Show me where the ACLU (Antichrist Lovers Union) had to get involved in getting someone sued for teaching against Santa Claus.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Show me where the ACLU (Antichrist Lovers Union) had to get involved in getting someone sued for teaching against Santa Claus.

you asked for a debate, not a religion.

And really, AV? Even you're better than cheap (and unoriginal) shots like "Antichrist Lovers Union."

 

[nuttypiglet]

In order for me to say such a statement, I would have to taste every cake in the world, which isn't even remotely feasible. The most I could say is it's the best I've ever tasted.

That's sort of the problem, here - you're saying this structure is the best, but you're not comparing it to anything. You're producing no criteria to judge that with. The best in relation to what? How do you know it couldn't be better? How is it objectively so, and not simply your opinion?

You would have to taste every cake in the world? WHY? You see, this is where trust comes in. Do you honestly repeat every experiment performed in your religion? or do you trust your scientists priests to check them for you? See, it's about trust in fellow man. So, let me make it real simple for you. You would have a group of tasters in different locations in different countries, tasting cakes on your behalf. They could narrow it down to the top 10-20 best tasting cakes for you. Now your job is far easier. In a way it made your life a lot easier didn't it. You didn't have to taste the nasty cakes, or the ones which would have made you vomit.