Is Contraception Destructive?

[Gishin]

So the pill is A-OK then?

I mentioned it before, but he keeps wanting to harp on condom usage.

 

[Rusha]

As someone who is against abortion, I don't understand why anyone would not encourage the proper usage of contraception.

 

[patricius79]

It makes no sense at all.

How did contraception ruin his marriage?

How is contraception immoral?

You can't say it's immoral because it ruins marriages and also say it ruins marriages because it's immoral. You are trapped in circular logic.

Hi Gishin!,

since nobody made that argument, you are presenting a straw man fallacy

contraception is immoral because a fundamental purpose of the marital act is to reproduce if the woman is or would be naturally fertile

Peace of Jesus Christ to You,

pat

 

[Ar Cosc]

Hi Gishin!,

since nobody made that argument, you are presenting a straw man fallacy

contraception is immoral because a fundamental purpose of the marital act is to put sperm into the woman.

Peace of Jesus Christ to You,

pat

You're making a baseless assertion here. I could say that abstinence is immoral because a fundamental purpose of sex is to form a closer bond between two lovers. Heck, I could say that abstinence is immoral because sex is amazing, and a fundamental purpose of humans is to have a good time. You have to justify the things you say with actual evidence and facts, or at least a decent, well-structured argument, or else you're not going to get anywhere.

So, who does contraception hurt, and how, exactly does it hurt them?

 

[Gishin]

Hi Gishin!,

since nobody made that argument, you are presenting a straw man fallacy

contraception is immoral because a fundamental purpose of the marital act is to put sperm into the woman.

Peace of Jesus Christ to You,

pat

Hi Gishin!,

that is a straw man since nobody made such an argument

if you are asking why contraception is immoral, I would answer that it is immoral because an essential purpose of the sexual act is to put sperm into the woman

Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ to You,

pat

A 4 and a half hour late almost-double post? Congratulations. Doesn't help your argument any though.

 

[Paulos23]

As someone who is against abortion, I don't understand why anyone would not encourage the proper usage of contraception.

I have to agree. Less unwanted children means less abortions. It also means less abused children, less mistreated children, etc. (Not saying every unwanted child ends up abused, but enough do).

 

[StThomasMore]

This thread is not about divorce or abortion - and such cannot be discussed here. What "most Lutherans" may or may not think is irrelevant to anything. Most probably believe the world is essentially round - that has nothing to do with this thread.


Yes, I think we all realize that, by far, the the largest religious promoter of contraceptive sex is The Roman Catholic denomination. It's also the only teacher of such known to me. That it is also opposed to contraceptive sex while being the world's largest religious promoter and on teacher of such is, IMO, as stated "so ironic."






.

It seems you don't have the proper knowledge regarding NFP and artificial contraception. It would be ignorant to lump them in together. NFP is always open to the gift of life. Contraception turns against our fertility and tries to sterilize it. NFP recognizes God as the Author and Sovereign of all life, and during the woman's fertile period allows Him to decide if a new person shall be conceived.

Contraception pushes God out of the picture, and attempts to take complete control over the possible procreation of a new person who will live forever. NFP takes advantage of the natural rhythms of fertility and infertility. Contraception suppresses and manipulates fertility, and refuses to practice periodic abstinence.

As far as irony, as ironic as the Lutheran Churches are going the way of the Episcopals? It would be quite ironic if Luther hasn't turned in his grave.

So you can ponder on the issues of periodic abstinence as the Lutheran church marries homosexuals, gives divorces, allows artificial contraception, encourages out of wedlock relations and women priests. It seems you need to get these things in order beforehand

 

[StThomasMore]

I have to agree. Less unwanted children means less abortions. It also means less abused children, less mistreated children, etc. (Not saying every unwanted child ends up abused, but enough do).

What don't people understand? Abortion and out of wedlock pregnancies INCREASED after contraception became popular. Over half of the women who have had abortions have been on contraception. Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill). Compared to only the 8% who haven't


Contraceptive Use Among U.S. Women Having Abortions in 2000-2001


Abortion rates :

1943: 0.02%

2008: 22.2%

Historical abortion statistics, United States


Quite ironic how it has increased greatly during the contraceptive boon after 1980

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What don't people understand? Abortion and out of wedlock pregnancies INCREASED after contraception became popular. Over half of the women who have had abortions have been on contraception. Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill). Compared to only the 8% who haven't


Contraceptive Use Among U.S. Women Having Abortions in 2000-2001


Abortion rates :

1943: 0.02%

2008: 22.2%

Historical abortion statistics, United States


Quite ironic how it has increased greatly during the contraceptive boon after 1980

Not really. Both contraception and abortion became popular due to the easing of social taboos surrounding such things. It is fallacious to conclude that one caused the other just because they correlate. Correlation can also occur due to a third, more fundamental factor, or it may simply be coincidental.

 

[Gishin]

It seems you don't have the proper knowledge regarding NFP and artificial contraception. It would be ignorant to lump them in together. NFP is always open to the gift of life. Contraception turns against our fertility and tries to sterilize it. NFP recognizes God as the Author and Sovereign of all life, and during the woman's fertile period allows Him to decide if a new person shall be conceived.

Contraception pushes God out of the picture, and attempts to take complete control over the possible procreation of a new person who will live forever. NFP takes advantage of the natural rhythms of fertility and infertility. Contraception suppresses and manipulates fertility, and refuses to practice periodic abstinence.

As far as irony, as ironic as the Lutheran Churches are going the way of the Episcopals? It would be quite ironic if Luther hasn't turned in his grave.

So you can ponder on the issues of periodic abstinence as the Lutheran church marries homosexuals, gives divorces, allows artificial contraception, encourages out of wedlock relations and women priests. It seems you need to get these things in order beforehand

God is so weak he's defeated by a pill or a layer of rubber?

 

[Ar Cosc]

God is so weak he's defeated by a pill or a layer of rubber?

In before me!

This is the same God who supposedly covered the entire surface of the earth with water, I think he'd probably be able to break a bit of rubber if he wanted to.

 

[Teriyaki]

In before me!

This is the same God who supposedly covered the entire surface of the earth with water, I think he'd probably be able to break a bit of rubber if he wanted to.

Just so you know, contraception aren't full proof.

 

[JadeTigress]

Just so you know, contraception aren't full proof.

They're full of something...

 

[Teriyaki]

They're full of something...

*rimshot*

 

[Ar Cosc]

Just so you know, contraception aren't full proof.

I do, but apparently those people who say it's taking conception out of God's hands don't.

 

[razeontherock]

I do, but apparently those people who say it's taking conception out of God's hands don't.

Actually this is a completely different train of thought from anything germaine. Conception is in OUR ... well, hands isn't exactly the right word here, but I trust you get the point.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

NFP is always open to the gift of life.

Of course, if the will of God is conception, such WILL happen. Heard of Mary and Joseph and the conception of Jesus?

The purpose, intent and design of the RCC's new birth control method is to have sex ("more than otherwise" Catholics insist) but contraceptively - so as to make it unlikely that conception happens. That's also why people tend to use other methods, as well.

As far as irony, as ironic as the Lutheran Churches are going the way of the Episcopals?

NO Lutheran denomination, known to me, has EVER had an official position on this (lots of personal opinions, of course). There are very few denominations that have an official position, and none as powerful as the RCC which is, by far, the world's largest religious promoter of birth control methods and contraceptive sex in the world, often teaching classes in it right in the parish center, occasionally required.

So you can ponder on the issues of periodic abstinence as the Lutheran church marries homosexuals, gives divorces, allows artificial contraception, encourages out of wedlock relations and women priests. It seems you need to get these things in order beforehand

Off topic, disallowed. And irrelevant, I'm a member of a congregation that belongs to the LCMS.







.

 

[razeontherock]

Contraception ... refuses to practice periodic abstinence.

What was that windmill doing to you, that you had to abuse it so?

the Lutheran church marries homosexuals, gives divorces, allows artificial contraception, encourages out of wedlock relations and women priests.

Flaming? check
Goading? check
Carnality? check
PKB (Audacity to bring up Church abuse, by a RC?!?) Pot calling kettle black? CHECK

That whole stones and glass houses thing never quite made any sense to you, did it? *SMH*

 

[BleedingHeart]

It seems you don't have the proper knowledge regarding NFP and artificial contraception. It would be ignorant to lump them in together. NFP is always open to the gift of life. Contraception turns against our fertility and tries to sterilize it. NFP recognizes God as the Author and Sovereign of all life, and during the woman's fertile period allows Him to decide if a new person shall be conceived.

Contraception pushes God out of the picture, and attempts to take complete control over the possible procreation of a new person who will live forever. NFP takes advantage of the natural rhythms of fertility and infertility. Contraception suppresses and manipulates fertility, and refuses to practice periodic abstinence.

As far as irony, as ironic as the Lutheran Churches are going the way of the Episcopals? It would be quite ironic if Luther hasn't turned in his grave.

So you can ponder on the issues of periodic abstinence as the Lutheran church marries homosexuals, gives divorces, allows artificial contraception, encourages out of wedlock relations and women priests. It seems you need to get these things in order beforehand

1. Play all the semantics you want. Both practices try to control reproduction. In that sense you can absolutely lump them together. One simply doesn't use artificial means.

2. "Contraception pushes God out of the picture,"
So much for being all-powerful.

3. "and attempts to take complete control over the possible procreation of a new person who will live forever."
A new person that I will be financially, and emotionally supporting, not you and not your God.

4. If Luther is turning in his grave, it's because the Catholic church is still a powerful entity.

5. Last paragraph is simply trolling. Giving out divorces, as opposed to forcing two miserable people to stay together? Female priests, who probably DON'T rape little boys, and WOULDN'T be protected by the church if they did? How horrifying.

 

[patricius79]

You're making a baseless assertion here.

Hi Ar Cosc!

then why do men [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] seed, biologically?

I could say that abstinence is immoral because a fundamental purpose of sex is to form a closer bond between two lovers?

you could say that but then you would have to say that a couple should have sex every minute of the day, since you say that abstinence is immoral

that might sound good, but would do a lot of harm

Peace of Jesus Christ to You!,

pat