Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Saint Steven]

But the flesh can only produce sinful faith, i.e., the faith people have when buying cars or goods. And the flesh cannot discern Christ in truth. So even then it will choose a false reckoning of Christ for the wrong reasons. That's what I said earlier. All hear the same gospel but the flesh will make a law out of it and turn grace into works.

"... sinful faith..." ???
I'm beginning to think you will say anything to make a point.
Does the Bible warn us about this "sinful faith"?

 

[Saint Steven]

= repentance.

= a personal free-will decision to turn away from sin and toward God.

 

[Dave L]

= a personal free-will decision to turn away from sin and toward God.

The flesh loves sin and hates God = cannot discern the true Christ and constructs a lovable idol instead.

 

[Dave L]

"... sinful faith..." ???
I'm beginning to think you will say anything to make a point.
Does the Bible warn us about this "sinful faith"?

Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Human faith is a disease of the flesh.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Too Long/Didn't Read
(TL/DR was made famous by James Damore, the Google
employee that was wrongfully fired for a memo)

You mean you can’t defend it so you’ll disregard it. How bout the Bible is that too long to read also?

 

[Saint Steven]

The flesh loves sin and hates God = cannot discern the true Christ and constructs a lovable idol instead.

Oh, finally... a definition of your false claim that I hate God.

 

[Saint Steven]

Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Human faith is a disease of the flesh.

Chapter and verse please. Thanks.

 

[Saint Steven]

You mean you can’t defend it so you’ll disregard it. How bout the Bible is that too long to read also?

In one post? Yes, the Bible would be too long to read in one post.
If I have problems with insomnia, I'll try to remember to read your post. Fair enough?

 

[Dave L]

Chapter and verse please. Thanks.

Find faith here;

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Find faith here;

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:22–24)

 

[Dave L]

Oh, finally... a definition of your false claim that I hate God.

If you trust in the arm of the flesh, you will perish.

 

[Saint Steven]

Find faith here;

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Find faith here;

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:22–24)

That is your scripture for "sinful faith"? ???

 

[Dave L]

That is your scripture for "sinful faith"? ???

Find free will in it.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you trust in the arm of the flesh, you will perish.

The "the arm of the flesh"?
Is that what you call believing faith?

 

[Dave L]

The "the arm of the flesh"?
Is that what you call believing faith?

The arm of the flesh cannot save.

 

[BNR32FAN]

In one post? Yes, the Bible would be too long to read in one post.
If I have problems with insomnia, I'll try to remember to read your post. Fair enough?

I just quoted 10 verses and provided the definitions of a few of the key Greek words. It probably looks long because I copied all the info on the Greek words instead of just showing the word and the definition. Sorry bout that I’m at work and had to reply quickly.

 

[Saint Steven]

Find free will in it.

There is lots of free will in the fruit of the Spirit. Choose... and choose to be... (instead of)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:22–24)

 

[BNR32FAN]

In one post? Yes, the Bible would be too long to read in one post.
If I have problems with insomnia, I'll try to remember to read your post. Fair enough?

When I was confronted with John 15:1-10 in its proper context I was unable to defend eternal security and salvation by faith without works without contradicting these verses. I spent several days searching the Greek definitions and looking for every way possible to interpret John 15 to defend these doctrines and I couldn’t do it. I had to reevaluate everything I had learned about the scriptures and the more research I did the more evidence I found that the early church teachers didn’t teach these doctrines at all. None of the early church writings supported them. In fact they contradicted them.

 

[Saint Steven]

I just quoted 10 verses and provided the definitions of a few of the key Greek words. It probably looks long because I copied all the info on the Greek words instead of just showing the word and the definition. Sorry bout that I’m at work and had to reply quickly.

That's okay. Thanks.
I just wanted to let you know that it was too much for me to tackle.
And I wasn't sure what it was about other then some unrequested advice/correction.

 

[Saint Steven]

When I was confronted with John 15:1-10 in its proper context I was unable to defend eternal security and salvation by faith without works without contradicting these verses. I spent several days searching the Greek definitions and looking for every way possible to interpret John 15 to defend these doctrines and I couldn’t do it. I had to reevaluate everything I had learned about the scriptures and the more research I did the more evidence I found that the early church teachers didn’t teach these doctrines at all. None of the early church writings supported them. In fact they contradicted them.

We are told that the Bible doesn't contradict itself, but I (and perhaps you) have not found that to be the case. That is a hard passage from the perspective you were looking at it in.

So, what to do... ???
As I said earlier, I see that passage as indicating fruit as evidence, not as a requirement for salvation. As soon as you add works to grace, you create a monster. How can such things be measured? Did you do enough? Could you have done more? Was it enough? Did you lose your salvation? Grace is easy to measure. Jesus paid it in full. Done deal.

 

[Saint Steven]

Find free will in it.

I find it interesting that this passage was written to believers, not unbelievers. See bold.
(variance, emulations, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings = church issues)

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)