Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Dave L]

C'mon Dave. Bible versus Bible never works.
You biblical choice does not negate mine, nor mine yours.
I say both, not one or the other.

1 Corinthians 12:1, 4, 7, 8-11
1 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

We must compare scripture with scripture to get the full picture. Acts and Romans limits the distribution mentioned in Corinthians to the hands of an apostle. As well as every mention in Acts where an apostle delivered the gifts.

 

[Dave L]

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

People have the Holy Spirit or they could not believe. Having the Holy Spirit is not the same as having the baptism or the gifts.

 

[Saint Steven]

Read Acts where they chose Matthias to replace Judas. They had certain requirements.

That doesn't answer my original statement about how you have elevated the Apostles above what God intended.

 

[Saint Steven]

We must compare scripture with scripture to get the full picture. Acts and Romans limits the distribution mentioned in Corinthians to the hands of an apostle. As well as every mention in Acts where an apostle delivered the gifts.

No they don't. That's ridiculous.

1 Corinthians 12:1, 4, 7, 8-11
1 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[Dave L]

No they don't. That's ridiculous.

1 Corinthians 12:1, 4, 7, 8-11
1 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

But Acts and Romans limits the distribution to the outpourings or to an apostle's hands.

 

[Saint Steven]

People have the Holy Spirit or they could not believe. Having the Holy Spirit is not the same as having the baptism or the gifts.

Really?
When do you claim that we receive the Holy Spirit today? When we ask? Or ???

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

 

[Dave L]

Really?
When do you claim that we receive the Holy Spirit today? When we ask? Or ???

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

God saves those who cannot believe in Christ by giving them the Holy Spirit, turning them into believers.

 

[Saint Steven]

But Acts and Romans limits the distribution to the outpourings or to an apostle's hands.

What passage are you referring to in Romans?

1 Corinthians 12:11
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[Saint Steven]

God saves those who cannot believe in Christ by giving them the Holy Spirit, turning them into believers.

Believers made against their will? (nope)

Then why did Jesus say this?

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

 

[Saint Steven]

People have the Holy Spirit or they could not believe. Having the Holy Spirit is not the same as having the baptism or the gifts.

Before they believe?
People have the Holy Spirit before they believe? (nope)

 

[Saint Steven]

We must compare scripture with scripture to get the full picture. Acts and Romans limits the distribution mentioned in Corinthians to the hands of an apostle. As well as every mention in Acts where an apostle delivered the gifts.

And the two outpourings (not by the hands of an apostle), right?

Which opens the door to whenever the Holy Spirit wants to do it. (as He wills)
Both generally and personally.

 

[Dave L]

And the two outpourings (not by the hands of an apostle), right?

Which opens the door to whenever the Holy Spirit wants to do it. (as He wills)
Both generally and personally.

We are speaking of the gifts, not the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

Before they believe?
People have the Holy Spirit before they believe? (nope)

They cannot believe unless they have the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

Believers made against their will? (nope)

Then why did Jesus say this?

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

If left to their will, none would be willing. All love their sin too much.

 

[Dave L]

What passage are you referring to in Romans?

1 Corinthians 12:11
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

The gifts came through an Apostle’s hands throughout Acts. Also through the two outpourings. If they came simply by asking for them, why would Paul say this?

 

[JAL]

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

The gifts came through an Apostle’s hands throughout Acts. Also through the two outpourings. If they came simply by asking for them, why would Paul say this?

Yes, God can either outpour the gifts directly, or through hands. This we all agree upon. So? And?

Not sure why you would incessantly belabor a moot point. Oh that's right. You have nothing else to stand on. You're making that fact painfully clear to everyone.

 

[Saint Steven]

They cannot believe unless they have the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Have?
Unbelievers HAVE the Holy Spirit? (nope)
Have the Holy Spirit as a personal possession? No way.
Drawn by, yes; "have", no.

 

[JAL]

They cannot believe unless they have the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

You mean to say, that our foundational beliefs - our most important beliefs/commitments in this lifetime - are all based on an ongoing direct revelation from the Holy Spirit, what Calvin referred to as the Inward Witness? In fact we could lose our saving faith if He desisted from that revelation even momentarily, right? Because you would then be conceding that direct revelation is the rock on which we all stand and that, by comparison, everything else is sinking sands.

 

[Dave L]

Have?
Unbelievers HAVE the Holy Spirit? (nope)
Have the Holy Spirit as a personal possession? No way.
Drawn by, yes; "have", no.

The Holy Spirit turns them into believers. You cannot believe in any true sense otherwise.

 

[Saint Steven]

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

The gifts came through an Apostle’s hands throughout Acts. Also through the two outpourings. If they came simply by asking for them, why would Paul say this?

I believe Paul wanted to personally discern prophetically what gifts went to whom.
He wasn't limiting how this could happen. In the scripture below the Elders in Ephesus discerned and bestowed a gift for Timothy. Not Apostles. Not Apostles. Not Apostles.

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.