Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Dave L]

You are claiming authority where you have none.
We have differing opinions, that's all.
I have backed up my opinions with scripture.
And you have attempted to do the same. lol

It's more serious than differing opinions.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's more like King Saul seeking extra biblical revelation. And we know how that turned out.

Peter said it best.

2 Peter 1:19-21
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Saint Steven]

Only because you cannot see it.

Translation: You cannot biblically substantiate your claim that scripture says:
"... the prophetic gifts and tongues ceased with the Apostles who distributed them."

 

[Dave L]

Translation: You cannot biblically substantiate your claim that scripture says:
"... the prophetic gifts and tongues ceased with the Apostles who distributed them."

You cannot see it because the things of God are spiritually discerned. I'll bet you are off in other areas too if you are typically Pentecostal.

 

[Dave L]

Peter said it best.

2 Peter 1:19-21
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Peter also says scripture is a more sure word of prophecy, even though they actually heard God speak.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's more serious than differing opinions.

Translation: You have no authority for your claim that:
"God's word... tells us your ideas are not in line with him."

 

[JAL]

It's more like King Saul seeking extra biblical revelation. And we know how that turned out.

You mean for example like the time the prophet Samuel corrected Saul for failing to heed the Voice? That sort of thing?

Later Saul went DELIBERATELY chasing voices other than the divine Voice. So? And?

 

[Dave L]

Translation: You have no authority for your claim that:
"God's word... tells us your ideas are not in line with him."

God's word says the gifts came through an apostle's hands after the two outpourings. And the Apostles are no longer with us, only in their writings.

 

[JAL]

Peter also says scripture is a more sure word of prophecy, even though they actually heard God speak.

This is a nebulous statement. Peter's words aren't terribly clear there, and neither is your conclusion.

Scripture came by prophetic Word. For you to claim, then, that Scripture is either 'more sure' or 'less sure' than prophecy requires clarification. And I doubt Peter had such in mind.

 

[JAL]

God's word says the gifts came through an apostle's hands after the two outpourings. And the Apostles are no longer with us, only in their writings.

The two outpourings show that gifts need not spring from the apostles. They can spring from heaven directly.

 

[JAL]

You cannot see it because the things of God are spiritually discerned. I'll bet you are off in other areas too if you are typically Pentecostal.

Your conclusions aren't demonstrable but, according to you, if we could see with your clarity of vision, we'd know them to be true? Funny cult-leaders claim the same thing.

 

[NBB]

Ok let's be clear. I don't believe in the existence anything non-physical.

(Sigh). But again, that's not the point here. The more you keep pushing that nebulous term, the more you push the sheep away from sensory experience, and thus farther away from the Father. You really want that blood on your hands on judgment day?

Hey you are exaggerating a bit here, its not a nebolous term the soul is not made of atoms is 'spiritual' but is not nebolous at all is well defined, so are the experiences with God, they are well defined and true but it need to be 'tasted' with the soul and spirit who can receive those things, God and our soul and spirit is not material, is spiritual.

There is nothing wrong with that... i'm not posing a treat to anyone lol

What everyone seems to think is that the spirit is not material...
Spirits can manipulate material but not the other way around i think.

In any case is not nebulous or vague at all! spiritual things are well defined too.

 

[JAL]

Hey you are exaggerating a bit here, its not a nebolous term the soul is not made of atoms is 'spiritual' but is not nebolous at all is well defined, so are the experiences with God, they are well defined and true but it need to be 'tasted' with the soul and spirit who can receive those things, God and our soul and spirit is not material, is spiritual.

There is nothing wrong with that... i'm not posing a treat to anyone lol

What everyone seems to think is that the spirit is not material...
Spirits can manipulate material but not the other way around i think.

In any case is not nebulous or vague at all! spiritual things are well defined too.

The soul need not be molecular/atomic, necessarily, but it must be tangible to interact with the body. To disagree is insanity.

And yes, it is a problem. I gave my own example. In fact I had read numerous books on the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Holy Breath) which told me that it's a 'spiritual' relationship but was getting NOWHERE in my aims to grow intimate with the Father until I learned from Andrew Murray that it was sensory experience.

I have literally churched with thousands of Christians who have NO IDEA about sensory experience because pastors keep telling them it's a spiritual relationship. In fact, I'm not sure if I've ever met a Christian who realizes it's God's will for all of us to see the Father face to face in this life (John 5:37).

That terminology has been potentially DEVASTATING to Christian maturation and it is largely born of the misconception that numinous reality is non-physical, coupled with the failure to realize that consciousness is loudness.

 

[StrivingFollower]

"There is nothing new under the sun." I guess God was wrong to say this because the world has changed so much that you gain more by following in the footsteps of timid questioners that went against Jesus than following in the footsteps of his disciples. Maybe if those ancient people had nicer technology they wouldn't have needed Jesus and his miracles. "Hey, hey Jesus where's your proof? I want five forensics teams to watch you at work, then I'll trust you."

 

[NBB]

The soul need not be molecular/atomic, necessarily, but it must be tangible to interact with the body. To disagree is insanity.

And yes, it is a problem. I gave my own example. In fact I had read numerous books on the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Holy Breath) which told me that it's a 'spiritual' relationship but was getting NOWHERE in my aims to grow intimate with the Father until I learned from Andrew Murray that it was sensory experience.

I have literally churched with thousands of Christians who have NO IDEA about sensory experience because pastors keep telling them it's a spiritual relationship. In fact, I'm not sure if I've ever met a Christian who realizes it's God's will for all of us to see the Father face to face in this life (John 5:37).

That terminology has been potentially DEVASTATING to Christian maturation and it is largely born of the misconception that numinous reality is non-physical, coupled with the failure to realize that consciousness is loudness.

Maybe the spiritual is 'superior' to the physical and can interact with it, but not be physical at the same time. God created the physical and he is spirit.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's more serious than differing opinions.

Why do you say that?
You have you position on the gifts and I have mine. Both are valid opinions.

 

[Saint Steven]

You cannot see it because the things of God are spiritually discerned. I'll bet you are off in other areas too if you are typically Pentecostal.

That's rich.
The guy who claims the gifts are dead thinks I don't have spiritual discernment. lol
Isn't that a thing. Wow.

 

[Saint Steven]

God's word says the gifts came through an apostle's hands after the two outpourings. And the Apostles are no longer with us, only in their writings.

The Bible says nothing of the sort. You just made that up.

 

[JAL]

Maybe the spiritual is 'superior' to the physical and can interact with it, but not be physical at the same time. God created the physical and he is spirit.

You might want to check out posts 3 and 5 on this thread.

 

[Saint Steven]

Peter also says scripture is a more sure word of prophecy, even though they actually heard God speak.

You've got it backwards. Prophecy was before scripture. It has ALWAYS been the more sure word. Peter says, "completely reliable". (and you would do well to pay attention to it)

2 Peter 1:19-21
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.