Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Saint Steven]

Bible only, without sectarianism, is this bad?

Who's interpretation?

 

[JAL]

Those scriptures dont necessarily refer to voices in our head.

Consciousness is loudness. I've belabored and demonstrated that (self-evident) point too many times on this thread to bother repeating the effort. ANY impact of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and minds, therefore, can be classified as the divine Voice (Jn 10:27).

 

[Dave L]

Which of these gifts do you claim are no longer in operation? (name all that apply)

- a message of wisdom
- a message of knowledge
- prophecy
- prophetic tongues
- interpretation of prophetic tongues
- distinguishing between spirits



1 Corinthians 12:7-11
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

I believe all the "Charismatic Gifts" ceased with the completion of the NT Scriptures.

 

[W2L]

Making miracles don't automatically says you are doing things wrong you know, actually it says you are doing well, if God backs you up something right you are doing,

People who don't do miracles in God name can be rejected as well you know.

actually it says you are doing well

Only if they keep the Lords commands.

People who don't do miracles in God name can be rejected as well you know.

Not if they keep the Lords commands.

These commands:

Matthew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

 

[Dave L]

A couple of verses worth mentioning here. John 10:27 isn't the only verse. Three times Hebrews alluded to hearing God's voice 'Today' suggesting that 'Today' is eternal( Heb 3:7, 15; 4:7).

Another verse, often overlooked, is Eph 4:21, "If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus." What do the commentators say about this verse?

Vincent’s Word Studies commented on Eph 4:21, "Him is emphatic…it was Him that ye heard. Compare Jn 10:27."

Almost verbatim The Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary on Eph 4:21 stated, "The Him‘ is emphatic: ‗heard Himself,‘ not merely heard about him."

The People’s New Testament Commentary on 4:21 finds here no "doubt that they had heard and been taught by Christ."

John Wesley read 4:21 as "heard Him teaching you inwardly by his Spirit."

The Matthew Henry Commentary on 4:21 accepts this translation,"have been taught by him, inwardly and effectually by his Spirit."

According to Charles Hodge‘s Commentary on Ephesians at 4:21, " it does not mean to hear about him but rather recalls what it means ―to hear the voice of God or Christ."

But you are reading your ideas into their words.

 

[JAL]

I have more Holy Spirit in my life than I ever did as a Charismatic.

Not sure what this means. You mean you have good behavior? Even the JWs have good behavior. There must be more to it than that.

Wouldn't it have to also include some - oh, I don't know - maybe some loudness?

 

[Dave L]

Not sure what this means. You mean you have good behavior? Even the JWs have good behavior. There must be more to it than that.

Wouldn't it have to also include some - oh, I don't know - maybe some loudness?

Fullness of the Holy Spirit comes through repentance and holiness.

 

[W2L]

Who's interpretation?

You are asking me to use sectarianism to avoid sectarianism?

 

[NBB]

Only if they keep the Lords commands.



Not if they keep the Lords commands.

These commands:

Matthew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Why assume that people who do miracles are not going to keep the commandments.
Its the same for the one who did miracles and for the one who do not.

 

[JAL]

But you are reading your ideas into their words.

Primarily I've been challenging you to explain YOUR experience of such words, to see if it can be done without recourse to loudness. You seem to keep deflecting and evading.

 

[Dave L]

Primarily I've been challenging you to explain YOUR experience of such words, to see if it can be done without recourse to loudness. You seem to keep deflecting and evading.

Holiness.....

 

[W2L]

Why assume that people who do miracles are not going to keep the commandments.
Its the same for the one who did miracles and for the one who do not.

Why assume they do? Jesus said many will boast of miracles but He will reject them.

 

[NBB]

Consciousness is loudness. I've belabored and demonstrated that (self-evident) point too many times on this thread to bother repeating the effort. ANY impact of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and minds, therefore, can be classified as the divine Voice (Jn 10:27).

Yes, this should be obvious, anything God does in our interior can be classified as God voice, actually i don't know how people can be christian and at the same time never have an 'impact' from God, something God does in your interior that tells you about something.

 

[NBB]

Why assume they do? Jesus said many will boast of miracles but He will reject them.

And he will reject a lot of people who did not made miracles too, making miracles is not bad.

 

[NBB]

Consciousness is loudness. I've belabored and demonstrated that (self-evident) point too many times on this thread to bother repeating the effort. ANY impact of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and minds, therefore, can be classified as the divine Voice (Jn 10:27).

I am a bit confused by what you mean by loudness, i think i understand it, but could you clarify?

 

[W2L]

making miracles is not bad.

But will obviously fool many.

 

[NBB]

But will obviously fool many.

If made by God, they are a blessing and great aid.

 

[W2L]

If made by God, they are a blessing and great aid.

But many will not be from God.

 

[NBB]

But many will not be from God.

Don't say all the miracles in pentecostal churches are a fraud or of the devil, because that is dangerous and not realistic also. If you do you should stop reading so much John macartur or something.

 

[W2L]

Don't say all the miracles in pentecostal churches are a fraud or of the devil, because that is dangerous and not realistic also. If you do you should stop reading so much John macartur or something.

I dont say, but their doctrine may or may not be in line with Jesus commands. I dont follow miracles i follow Jesus commands.. Jesus said many will boast in miracles but be rejected, but those who follow His word will be considered wise

 

[NBB]

I dont say, but their doctrine may or may not be in line with Jesus commands. I dont follow miracles i follow Jesus commands.. Jesus said many will boast in miracles but be rejected, but those who follow His word will be considered wise

You should like Jesus miracles too, nothing wrong with that.
Also lol repeating, people who do miracles / like miracles does not mean they can't follow Jesus commands. Many will do miracles and be rejected but again lol, that just one less for miracle doers, but there is a long list for anyone else.