Is Calvinism a false denomination?

[K Watt]

They are verses. Passages contain verses. Verses are not passages. Passages help with context. Verses assume context.

I can’t since you think actually using context is some sly way to twist the meaning.

Some contain multiple verses. A single verse is also a passage, albeit a short one.

Here are two simple questions you can answer yes or no:

Does God want all men to be saved?

Does God want the wicked to repent?

 

[K Watt]

I believe that context determines that. I don’t believe that when He sent Judas off to betray Him, that He had me in mind.

Did he say ALL MEN will betray me?

 

[Hammster]

Some contain multiple verses. A single verse is also a passage, albeit a short one.

Here are two simple questions you can answer yes or no:

Does God want all men to be saved?

Does God want the wicked to repent?

He won’t send away any who come to Him in faith.

And He commands men everywhere to repent.

 

[Hammster]

Did he say ALL MEN will betray me?

Nope. That’s why context matters. Thanks for that awesome illustration.

 

[solid_core]

He won’t send away any who come to Him in faith.

And He commands men everywhere to repent.

But in calvinist theology these commands are just a theatre, because nobody is able to repent without God forcing Him to repent, no?

 

[K Watt]

He won’t send away any who come to Him in faith.

And He commands men everywhere to repent.

You didn't answer the first question.

Does God want all men to be saved?


Does God command things that are impossible for us to do?

 

[K Watt]

Nope. That’s why context matters. Thanks for that awesome illustration.

But in Rev. 3 he did say ANYONE. You didn't make your point.

Let's stick with what Jesus said.

 

[BBAS 64]

Maybe you could just tell me what you think these verses mean if they don't mean what they say.

Good Day, K Watt


I thought we were working though the context of 1Tim 2:1-6, for some reason you backed off.


Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.


I asked based on the context you “Does Jesus mediate for all men ( without distinction) also... did he pay the ransom for all men (without distinction) as well”


To which you replied: “YES”


In your understanding of the text I then asked:

“So then Christ meditates for (all men with out distinction)before the throne of the Father for the purpose of:

Thayer Definition:
1) one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant

So would you agree in accordance with Hebrews 9 and the effect "so that" purpose clause.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

May receive the promised, and that redeems them ( all men with out distinction).

It seems that would make you a universalist, unless of course you believe that in the role of mediator Jesus fails to make peace between God and (all men with out distinction)


one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant.

Which is it?

in talking talk about ransom ... Jesus paid the kinsman redeemer price demanded by the Father and that was not enough in the eyes of the Father.... he alone is not an sufficient nor effective redeemer.

Which is it?

I am waiting for you interaction with these questions, Should I expect you to do so??

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

But in calvinist theology these commands are just a theatre, because nobody is able to repent without God forcing Him to repent, no?

Good Day, Solid_core

I would say No the commands are rightly commands are are based solely upon God's own authority and desire to command that which ever he chooses.

God forces people to repent?? No Calvinist ever said so I would like to see your source for such understanding.

In Him

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

You didn't answer the first question.

Does God want all men to be saved?


Does God command things that are impossible for us to do?

Good Day, KWatt

All men with out distinction- no

I know the God you believe in is unable to get everything he desires... and is unable to for-fill His purposes.

Yes:

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in.

No one can come to me

In Him,

Bill

 

[Hammster]

But in calvinist theology these commands are just a theatre, because nobody is able to repent without God forcing Him to repent, no?

Anyone that wants to put their faith in Christ will be saved.

 

[Hammster]

You didn't answer the first question.

Does God want all men to be saved?


Does God command things that are impossible for us to do?

I did answer it. Just not in the way you thought I would.

 

[solid_core]

God forces people to repent??

So are we able to repent without God's supernatural intervention that He reserved for the elect, only?

And if God choses some people to repentance, are these people free not to repent or is it certain they will repent?

No Calvinist ever said so I would like to see your source for such understanding.

Many calvinists say so, mainly when talking about J 6:44 and the Greek word helkysein.

Its also a natural implication of the Total Depravity and of the Irresistable Grace.

 

[solid_core]

Anyone that wants to put their faith in Christ will be saved.

But in the calvinist theology, you must first be saved (or born again or regenerated or whatever the term) to want to put your faith in Christ.

Therefore the decision is not on people, but on God, only.

 

[Hammster]

But in the calvinist theology, you must first be saved (or born again or regenerated or whatever the term) to want to put your faith in Christ.

Therefore the decision is not on people, but on God, only.

None of that changes my answer.

 

[solid_core]

None of that changes my answer.

And it still stands that your answer is just about the ones who were against their will simply taken from their total depravity and forced (by irresistable grace) to come to Christ.

So the command to repent or to have faith (pistis) is impossible for people who are on their own.

Thats calvinism.

 

[BBAS 64]

So are we able to repent without God's supernatural intervention that He reserved for the elect, only?

And if God choses some people to repentance, are these people free not to repent or is it certain they will repent?


Many calvinists say so, mainly when talking about J 6:44 and the Greek word helkysein.

Its also a natural implication of the Total Depravity and of the Irresistable Grace.

Good Day, Solid_core

If man has a desire to repent he will repent...

That does not change the fact that repentance is granted for a direct purpose (Effect by design)

1. Acknowledment of the truth
2.Be made aware
3.and escape the Snare they are caught in

Of which God is the primary cause of dong the granting (verb) of repentance.

Ti 2:24 and a servant of the Lord it behoveth not to strive, but to be gentle unto all, apt to teach, patient under evil, in meekness instructing those opposing—if perhaps God may give to them repentance to an acknowledging of the truth,and they may awake out of the devil's snare, having been caught by him at his will.


Can man repent if he is not Granted repentance?
Can man do the things that only repentance is the direct cause 1,2,3?

That web link says nothing about forcing men to repent....

Thomas Watson did a great work on the doctrine of repentance.... you may find that helpful.
Sinclair Ferguson did one in 2000 called the grace of repentance which I hear good things about.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Hammster]

And it still stands that your answer is just about the ones who were against their will simply taken from their total depravity and forced (by irresistable grace) to come to Christ.

So the command to repent or to have faith (pistis) is impossible for people who are on their own.

Thats calvinism.

Nobody is forced. Please don’t do the straw man thing. I don’t feel it’s good for Christians to do so.

 

[solid_core]

Nobody is forced. Please don’t do the straw man thing. I don’t feel it’s good for Christians to do so.

In calvinism, natural people are given commands they cannot fulfill and some few of them are against their will regenerated and so given faith, repentance and salvation.

The first ones will go to eternal torture and the second ones to undeserved eternal joy.

Is that not true?

 

[BBAS 64]

But in the calvinist theology, you must first be saved (or born again or regenerated or whatever the term) to want to put your faith in Christ.

Therefore the decision is not on people, but on God, only.

Good Day Solid_core

God yes indeed removes the heart of stone and give a heart of flesh, he puts His Spirit in us he decides to take that action.

Born of the will of God, and not of man..

Why you are unwilling to trust him with those decisions and responsibilities , knowing that he will make the right decisions is beyond me.

In Him

Bill