Is Belief the Power?

[peaceful soul]

Deity manifests to people of every faith, nationality, etc. Every faith!!!

Indeed. This is in contrast to some who say Deity manifests only to them. Then they have no escape but to brand the others? experiences as false, counterfeit, demonic. That?s the main disadvantage of exclusivist religion, you can?t avoid being uncharitable towards others and their sacred things.

One truth, many ways.

Does that make them the "absolute" truth? I mean, because you see deity, does that render them as truth? Are all spirits created equal. Are some bad and are some good? If so, how do you know how to distinguish? Are there false spirits? What determines truth in the 1st place? I hope I am going off topic too much.

 

[Spaise]

Just throw the baby out with the bath water. Although I too hate religion, I see the culprit behind it, and you do not. It is not the religion that is the actual problem as it is the opposition to God's word, Satan. He uses religion as a vehicle to keep people blind to God, by disguising the religion as a substitute for fellowship with God. So, the religious person thinks that he/she is in tune with the true god, whereas in reality, he/she is not. Christ explained that in His teachings, and I know it to be true in my walk with God. God intends us to have a direct fellowship with Him, and that is through Christ.

Lets not blame something or someone there is no evidence for. Satan is nothing rather than excuse, for the evil things men do, lets take some of the blame for our own ignorance, hate, and stupidity.

Religion is a creation of humanity. For the present moment that is a fact. It is fine and dandy your little walk with God. But, i have not had the pleasure of meeting he/she. I've had no miracle to put me on the straight and narrow, no apparent sign from onipotent being. All i have is my own intellect and my heart, both of which i prize over anything else in my being.

Question: How do you know you weren't walking with 'Satan' and your religion was in fact spawned by 'Satan'? How do you know Judaism isn't absolutely correct and Christianity was created by the 'dark prince' in order to lead people away from Judaism.

That goes for you too. You are controlled by the the spirit of this earth that tells you that Christ is not your saviour. That you can philosophize and explain God absolutely, based upon you experiences and reality.

I won't deny it, what is anything but my experiences and reality. Another reason against religion. It's all about your experiences and reality. Why would you go to hell because your brain lead you down a different path other than the 'Christian Path'.

I like your oversimplification.

Why thankyou very much.

That is definitely your view. I am glad that I am not trapped by that type of thought.

It is my view, free of the blinders imposed by a bias thought process.

Only if you knew the true meaning of sin.

Would you be willing to share your view? I see it as a personal evil but like anything it is not that simple.

That is 100% true, but we have different understandings of this.

Your understanding would be...?

In many cases, this is true, but there are some who are actually called by God to preach. Unfortunately, so many people appoint themselves to offices that God did not call them to sit in.

If you say so.
If God wants to run it like that why give us freedom at all?

Solution: buy yourself an island and go live on it by yourself.

Funny i was thinking the same thing. But, i'd never run away from a challenge. I breathe to taste competition.

You are dissin' The Creator. I bet He laughs at you right now.

Do i care?

Has it occured to you that you are just an image of your post against others? All religious people are not even close to what you say. You are way too general to effectively comment on in any detail.

The ones i didn't mention are the minority.

 

[Hiero_Warship]

Speaking of different religious paths - has anyone else noticed that there are people who are religiously athesistic, and even fundamentalist atheists?
And that they can be just as arrogant and condescending in their proselytizing as many fundamentalist Christians are accused of being?

 

[Spaise]

You can make a religion out of anything.
I've made a religion out of myself.

I don't really know if your talking about me but, for the records i'm not atheist, if it wasn't apparent already.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

Speaking of different religious paths - has anyone else noticed that there are people who are religiously athesistic, and even fundamentalist atheists?
And that they can be just as arrogant and condescending in their proselytizing as many fundamentalist Christians are accused of being?

Yes indeed! Atheists and Christians are very similar. They share a devotion to exclusive truth.

Does that make them the "absolute" truth? I mean, because you see deity, does that render them as truth? Are all spirits created equal. Are some bad and are some good? If so, how do you know how to distinguish? Are there false spirits? What determines truth in the 1st place? I hope I am going off topic too much.

You know them by their fruits. If revelation from them produces a better person, then they’re true Gods from true God. That’s the same question that was presented before Sannion, the Hellenic polytheist. Read his article, beginning from the question “How do you know that the Gods you worship are who you imagine them to be - for instance, what if they are demons deceiving you into a false belief?”

 

[Hiero_Warship]

Does that make them the "absolute" truth? I mean, because you see deity, does that render them as truth? Are all spirits created equal. Are some bad and are some good? If so, how do you know how to distinguish? Are there false spirits? What determines truth in the 1st place? I hope I am going off topic too much.

It seems to me that whenever a Christian askls questions like this, they are opening the door to be asked such questions of themselves, as well.
The Christian scriptures say that, "by their fruits you shall know them." But when I told a Christian friend that the Mormons and the Masons seemed to be good based on this scripture, as they do much good for society, he said that verse didn't apply to them.
And the Christian scriptures also say that angels of light can appear to them, yet be of the Devil.
Jesus even said that "even the elect" will be fooled.
So by what may we judge truth? By the Bible? Well, many groups such as the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Branch Davidians, etc. use the Bible to justify their beliefs and behaviors, yet many Christians say these groups aren't really Christian.

So, how do we judge the spirits? How do we know the truth? It seems to me that we are all left stumbling in th edark, doing the best we can, without an infallible guide. It takes work, and learning, and discernment, and a loving heart to find truth; at least your present truth.
I wish I had a book that would answer all of my questions. The Bible doesn't do it, neither does any other holy book I've encountered.
What are we left? Answers that aren't found in a book. IMHO.

 

[Hiero_Warship]

Read his article, beginning from the question “How do you know that the Gods you worship are who you imagine them to be - for instance, what if they are demons deceiving you into a false belief?”

Very good article!

 

[Spaise]

Can i ask how anyone is definite in their belief of spirits?

How does anyone know whether or not they are deceiving themself?

 

[Hiero_Warship]

Can i ask how anyone is definite in their belief of spirits?

How does anyone know whether or not they are deceiving themself?

Doesn't matter.
Whether or not one's faith is objectively "true," so long as the world functions as though it is, it can be an effective tool for growth.

 

[Spaise]

Thats complacency.

If you refuse to challenge your thoughts and beliefs. You are a coward. How do you expect to grow if you refuse to see life outside of your own wonder land? You make a trip to some where like Chechnya or the Congo, and see how your whole views on God, spirits, and the Earth change. Trust me they have no time to worry about whether theres a god looking over their shoulder. Thats life.

 

[Hiero_Warship]

Thats complacency.

Hardly.
Spaise, I think that you are reading everyone's words with some kind of your own overlay, rather than trying to listen to what is being said.

It's not complacency; it's called a working hypothesis. Scientists use them all the time. Evolution is a theory that goes a long way towards explaining life on earth. It's an unproven theory, but it works phenomally well at explaining thinsg as they are, and so we use it until something better comes along. In the meantime, that unproven theory of evolution has allowed tremendous growth in scientific knowledge.

If you refuse to challenge your thoughts and beliefs. You are a coward. How do you expect to grow if you refuse to see life outside of your own wonder land?

Your own psychological issues seem to be constantly getting in the way of your truly listening.
I have stated elsewhere in this thread that I have been "all over the map" in my spiritual pilgrimage, making an intensive study of at least half a dozen faiths. How in the worl do you read that an daccuse me of "refusing to challenge my thoughts and beliefs"? My own wonderland? I'm a coward? Your arrogance is not endearing, frined.

You make a trip to some where like Chechnya or the Congo, and see how your whole views on God, spirits, and the Earth change. Trust me they have no time to worry about whether theres a god looking over their shoulder. Thats life.

So people in dire straits don't have time for religion? I think that you are using something for talking which is usually reserved for sitting.
If you havce had hard times or seen horrible things which have dramatically impacted your feelings about religion in a negative way, that's fine - for you.
I have been through a tremendous amount of stuff. Believe me - because you don't know who you are talking to on the oimnternet or what they have been through. So all your pompous posturing is impotent; I'm not a spoiled suburban rich kid or whatever. My ideas on faith, god, etc. have been put through the crucible of tragedy, suffering, pain, and all that kind of stuff.
But I suppose I'll have to visit one of the countries you recommend so that I will be able to talk about religion. Puh-leez.
I'd love to have you around if you wish to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful, non-condescending way.

 

[Shekinahs]

If you refuse to challenge your thoughts and beliefs. You are a coward. How do you expect to grow if you refuse to see life outside of your own wonder land?

I agree. People grow and change from one phase of their life to the next and people need to evaluate their belief system. Ask themselves WHY do I believe this. WHY do I think this is right?

Only from giving oneself honest answers can we grow.

 

[Spaise]

Your own psychological issues seem to be constantly getting in the way of your truly listening.

Who elses 'psychological issues' should be getting in the way?

Besides,
speak for yourself.

You went around the world studying faiths. Go around the world and study the millions of reasons why faith is bogus. People in 'dire straits' don't have time to pray to a god thats not there. There busy with other things called life. Struggling to find that grain of rice than can push them to that next day. I'm tired of hearing people thank god that their lives are good, who should the kids born into poverty thank. 'Thanks God for the enduring pain that i have felt throughout my life, thankyou for giving me the wonderful experience of watching my mother beaten and raped by my father' PUHLEEZE.

Faith changes nothing in life. Their countless people on this planet with zero faith, happy, and living wonderful lives, while their are countless with faith who have nothing to show for their lives. God awards no one, he takes nothing away. Why is it so hard to believe that there is nothing supernatural invading our lives day to day.

Faith is placebo, if anything at all.

Do you really think you could not survive with your precious faith? If not, you are individually weak that you need an outside influence to survive day to day. Don't take that as me saying i'm not, i'm fine with the fact, that i am still dependent on others and false beliefs. Difference between me and you is i am not afraid to say it or change that.

Who cares about your visits to understand faith. Try understanding why people don't believe in it.

My arrogance, its one of my quality traits, ask anyone.

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

Spaise...you seem alarmingly cynical for someone only 18. But then that's either come from things that have happened in your life, or simply a personality trait.

Can you please explain more simply what your main problems with religion are. And as you are not an atheist, in your own words, what would you class yourself as? After all, you are either an atheist, an agnostic, or a follower of one religion or faith or another.

You claim that God does not do miracles for non-believers and does not work in people's lives. I'm sure there are a lot of examples to refute this but start by reading Nicky Cruz's "Run Baby Run" and then come back and tell me God doesn't work in the lives of non-believers.

In my opinion, it seems your problem might be that following Christianity, or another religion, would put restrictions on your life and you don't like that.

One final thing, I woke up one morning about 3 months ago, turned over in bed and twisted my foot, I was in great pain, I said a quick prayer to God and the pain immediately left me. Explain that?

P.S. for someone who hates religion, you spend a lot of time on this website?

Steve
"Jesus loves you even if you don't love him!"

 

[traveller]

really enjoying this discussion...what fascinates me is the fact that every single faith comes down to the 'ultimate reality' the 'ultimate truth' the source of all things. its like the triangle affect - not matter how many points you make u always have one point which joins the rest *not easy to describe in words!*... This is why i am a Muslim...belief that God is One, the originator, the creator, the sustainer...

Something that heathen said 'One truth many paths' - sounds alot like Sufism hmmm just a thought!