Is belief enough to be saved?

Albion · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Oh, so you believe a person will be saved because of their faith regardless of their deeds.

None of us who believe in the power of Faith would think, believe, or say that.

As a taunt, your comment might work to provoke someone, but that's about all.

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Do you know the story of Balaam? Why did the LORD destroy Balaam, even though he had faith in the LORD?

Of course I know it, what does this have to do with the argument???
The Lord giveth the Lord taketh away blessed be the name of the Lord.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
Of course I know it, what does this have to do with the argument???
The Lord giveth the Lord taketh away blessed be the name of the Lord.

Earlier, you said that a man is saved by faith regardless of deeds, right?

So, why did the LORD destroy Balaam, even though he had faith in the LORD?

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

ToroEmbolados said:
Do you have perfect works?

Yes or no?

Why do you worry about others when your own works do not meet the standard of perfection?

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:6

The LORD will perfect that which concerns me: your mercy, O LORD, endures for ever: forsake not the works of your own hands. Psalm 138:8

Continue to abide in Jesus Christ unto the end, and you will be blameless before the LORD.

God bless.

jpcedotal · Feb 15, 2012

The devil and his demons believe in God and who Jesus Christ is....

No, belief is not enough.

B-74 · Feb 15, 2012

jpcedotal said:
The devil and his demons believe in God and who Jesus Christ is....

No, belief is not enough.

That much is clear.

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Earlier, you said that a man is saved by faith regardless of deeds, right?

So, why did the LORD destroy Balaam, even though he had faith in the LORD?

You're making an ignorant argument...When we are saved we'll do the work of the Lord...Our being saved has nothing to do with our deeds lest the man should boast Ephesian 2 and many other areas are clear on this.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
You're making an ignorant argument...When we are saved we'll do the work of the Lord...Our being saved has nothing to do with our deeds lest the man should boast Ephesian 2 and many other areas are clear on this.

Am I really, brother? Didn't you say that person is saved by faith, and no works?

So, WHY did God destroy Balaam, even though he believed in God?

Tis, a simple question.

Albion · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Am I really, brother? Didn't you say that person is saved by faith, and no works?

Listen. The point is about being SAVED by Faith and not by works. It is not that anyone is against works or that works are unimportant.

Refresh my memory...Was Balaam condemned to hell according to that passage?

B-74 · Feb 15, 2012

I think its like this. God is saying if you have faith you will love Him and others, but we cannot earn salvation because we would boast and be proud fools, God resists pride, how can he help us bear fruit if we are proud?

Its like Gods is saying you cannot earn salvation by works, but do them anyway for free, meaning you get no promise of reward necessarily. Maybe we cant be accepted by having works, only through Christ who bears the fruit of good works, but we cant abide in him without doing good works because he told us to and we abide by faith and obedience together. So we obey and do good works, which means we are abiding in Him and his command, then he bears good fruit that causes us to do good works from the heart, for His glory. Maybe we cant earn salvation through works, but Christ seems to say we will be rejected by not having them, or be rejected by having them and boasting as if we saved our self, again that's pride that God resists.

So i guess we do works just to obey and to abide in Him then He bears the fruit from the heart. We will be rejected without works, he will never know us if we have no works, he said so.

I hope this doesn't sound jumbled and confusing.

wayseer · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. Romans 2:5-10

You demonstrate the inherent problem of taking scripture out of context and thereby missing the essential ingredient.

Please read all of Romans Chapter 2 - particularly the bit where Paul starts off by saying, ' ... when you judge others; for in passing judgement on others you condemn yourself ... '

So just where did Jesus make the statement ... At Judgement day, each man will be judged according to their works and those whose names are not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

There is, of course, no such reference.

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Albion said:
...Was Balaam condemned to hell according to that passage?

Thanks that was my point I was making, didn't think he would miss it but clearly he did.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

ToroEmbolados said:
Are you saved by works?

Yes or no?

You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24

_ _ _ _

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ Revelation 3:1-6

_ _ _ _ _

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Romans 2:5-10

_ _ _ _ _

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12-15

_ _ _ _ _

“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:33-37

_ _ _ _ _

Also to you, O Lord, belongs mercy: for you render to every man according to his work. Psalm 62:12

_ _ _ _ _

What does it profit, my brethren, though a man says he has faith, and has not works? can faith save him? James 2:14

No one is saved by works, but only by the grace of God through faith. However, we are NOT saved by faith alone. We have a duty before God, a responsibility to cease from sin, and to do "good works", otherwise our faith will have been in vain.

wayseer · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
That's not necessarily true...

Although, Balaam (and Judas Iscariot) had faith in God, they still did not do what was right in the eyes of the LORD. The prophet Balaam believed in the one living God (for he talked with God literally), but unfortunately, fell to his demise due to his own foolishness.

Again you take scripture out of context.

Jesus' invitation still stands ... 'Whosoever believes ... ' otherwise, friend, neither you nor I would make it.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

wayseer said:
You demonstrate the inherent problem of taking scripture out of context and thereby missing the essential ingredient.

Please read all of Romans Chapter 2 - particularly the bit where Paul starts off by saying, ' ... when you judge others; for in passing judgement on others you condemn yourself ... '

So just where did Jesus make the statement ... At Judgement day, each man will be judged according to their works and those whose names are not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

There is, of course, no such reference.

Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned. Matthew 12:33-37

_ _ _ _ _

And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Revelation 3:1-6

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

Albion said:
Listen. The point is about being SAVED by Faith and not by works. It is not that anyone is against works or that works are unimportant.

Refresh my memory...Was Balaam condemned to hell according to that passage?

It's not my position to judge anyone, but things don't look too good for Balaam:

In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, The Lord rebuke you! Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinctas irrational animals dowill destroy them.

Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaams error; they have been destroyed in Korahs rebellion.

These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualmshepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprootedtwice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Jude 1:8-13

_ _ _ _ _

Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Revelation 2:14-16

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Revelation 3:1-6

What is it that you think you see in this letter directed at a CHURCH? and more specifically it's leader? this is a warning that the angel better warn them to check their faith (sheeps and goats in the church, just like now), it say's nothing about God saving or not saving BASED on their works....Context man.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
Thanks that was my point I was making, didn't think he would miss it but clearly he did.

Balaam has certainly been made an example for all of us Christians...to not follow in his footsteps. However, I'm not gonna cast judgement on his eternal fate. That's certainly not my job, but the LORD's.

But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greedan accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkeyan animal without speechwho spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophets madness. 2 Peter 2:12-16

Albion · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Balaam has certainly been made an example for all of us Christians...to not follow in his footsteps. However, I'm not gonna cast judgement on his eternal fate.

In that case, you have your answer. We are saved by Faith and nothing in the Balaam account conflicts with that reality.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
What is it that you think you see in this letter directed at a CHURCH? and more specifically it's leader? this is a warning that the angel better warn them to check their faith (sheeps and goats in the church, just like now), it say's nothing about God saving or not saving BASED on their works....Context man.

Brother, I sincerely do not think that's what that passage means. The message was sent to the Church (body of believers in Sardis) as a stern warning for them (the assembly) to wake up from their slumber, and turn back to the LORD before it was too late.

You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. Revelation 3:4

Tell me, why were some in Sardis worthy to walk with Jesus Christ dressed in white? It was only because their works were perfect before God, they were found to be blameless. Each and everyone of us needs to appear blameless when the LORD returns, otherwise our faith will have been in vain.

Is belief enough to be saved?

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