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Davebuck said:Oakheart,
Great post. What is the one commandment you speak of?
I'd definitely argue that there are much better and clearer guides to moral behavior than the 10 Cs!
I'd even argue that the 'do unto others' rule is not as good as 'Do NOT do to others what you don't want done to you'. The latter predates christian scripture and is found in ancient asian philosophy.
transientlife said:As long as one does no harm to anyone else, their religion - Wicca, Christian, Islam or otherwise- is fine by me. Some forget that while you may not physically harm someone, there can also be emotional and mental harm done to those when you aggressively judge others. Let us not forget those harms.
Yes I am a christian, and believe the bible is the word of God (I'm not exactly sure yet about it being inerrant - divinely inspired and supposed to be inerrant , yes. Open to interpretation, yes. Vulnerable to human misconception, mis-translation, and purposeful misuse - absolutely. All throughout history good and bad things have been done in the name of religion.) But I am also tolerant of other viewpoints, and realize that I could as easily be called immoral by a Muslim who recognizes the word of Allah, not the Christian God. I'm not going to impress my Christianity on a Wiccan, especially when their existence is benign as far as the topic is concerned. If Wiccans were as concerned about the religious life of others as other religions seem to be ( I may be wrong, but I don't see them going out and witnessing to others about their faith), then perhaps they could also call Christians and other non-wiccans immoral as well. It's all individual and when the parties involved don't "play by the same rules" so to speak, it's a debatable subject but you really won't get anywhere.Whitehorse said:Well, wait a minute though. You do have a cross by your name. Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God? Because is it really about what we think, or what God says? Who is the authority on morality?
transientlife said:Yes I am a christian, and believe the bible is the word of God (I'm not exactly sure yet about it being inerrant - divinely inspired and supposed to be inerrant , yes.
Open to interpretation, yes. Vulnerable to human misconception, mis-translation, and purposeful misuse - absolutely.
All throughout history good and bad things have been done in the name of religion.) But I am also tolerant of other viewpoints, and realize that I could as easily be called immoral by a Muslim who recognizes the word of Allah, not the Christian God.
I'm not going to impress my Christianity on a Wiccan, especially when their existence is benign as far as the topic is concerned.
If Wiccans were as concerned about the religious life of others as other religions seem to be ( I may be wrong, but I don't see them going out and witnessing to others about their faith), then perhaps they could also call Christians and other non-wiccans immoral as well.
It's all individual and when the parties involved don't "play by the same rules" so to speak, it's a debatable subject but you really won't get anywhere.
Besides, on second thinking, IMHO, judging a Wiccan by the Christian God is like an American being tried in a foreign country's court, they're just not the same.
transientlife said:<snip>
If Wiccans were as concerned about the religious life of others as other religions seem to be ( I may be wrong, but I don't see them going out and witnessing to others about their faith)
Whitehorse said:Then this would be saying God failed at His task. If you think it is errant, then how can you be sure of anything?
I didn't say I believe it was errant, I said I was unsure. I still follow the bible, but I wonder at times if it was ever perhaps tampered with, that's all.
Is the Bible really vulnerable? Don't we go to it with varying degrees of submission? Is the Bible any less the word of God, or is it errant because someone didn't do their exegesis right? Is it any less God's sayso because someone went to it more with the intent to look for evidence of their own beliefs or to spiritualize sin? So, one needs to ask whether the Bible really vulnerable to misinterpretation, or whether we vulnerable to insubordination.
I believe I have read where those who had influence in historical times (ie when being illiterate was common) were able to entice monks who recorded the bible to, in a sense, tweak a few things in their favor. That was my point.
But what does God do? Does God impose law on them? THey may feel more comfortable to have your affirmation right now, but what happens when they face judgment and thought it was okay? The bottom line is, who is the authority-man or God.
Wiccans or any other non-christians don't need my supposed 'affirmation' and I'm certain they aren't reading this and going "phew, SHE thinks it's ok, so I can continue on doing what I'm doing"...what happens when they face judgement is between them and God and none of my business whatsoever. I have my own salvation to worry about, and that's not anyone else's business either. Regardless of if the bible says it is wrong and if I agree or disagree with that, I simply respect their right to believe differently than me and make the choice not to judge. Most trespasses made against God's laws are between the trespassers and Himself, not me, and in all honesty, it doesn't really matter if I think it's right or wrong
Friend, I think you need to find out what a Christian is before you make this kind of assertion. Read your Bible end to end. A Christian is a follwer of Christ, who strongly denounced man's supposed authority. No wiccan can be in anywise considered this.
With all due respect, I've been a Christian in one form or another all my life, please do not 'revoke' my Christianity because you and I are not of the same opinion. I am simply stating my opinion, and you and anyone else is free to disagree. That is all.
Well, it's important because no one can claim to be a Christian unless they truly believe God's word is inerrant. The whole basis for your faith has been brought into question. Jesus is Savior, andLord.
Lifesaver said:I believe that while Wicca has good teachings on some areas of morality (accepting that harming others is generally wrong is already better than nothing), it falls short of the standard God has given us and calls us to follow.
Lifesaver said:We disagree, Myah.
Basically, you're saying that if someone says harming none is too opressive for them, then they are right in following their own code, where killing, lying and deceiving are all fair play.
Rather, what is wrong is wrong regardless of someone knowing or not that it is so.
Exactly. And that's where we disagree.Myah said:No...that's not what I'm saying at all.I'm simply saying that the Christian dogmatic law is too oppressive for me . If someone decides that "Harm none" isn't what they desire to follow, then yes, they should attempt to find a moral base in another path.
So right and wrong do exist independent of our knowledge and opinion, don't they?I'm not saying that those actions are right at all, but if someone decides to go ahead and take that path, then they have to bear the responsibilities and consequences.
If different shades of gray exist, that's because the absolutes black and white also exist.Not everyone has the same idea of what is right, however. What may be considered wrong by you because of your faith, may not be thought of in the same manner as another. Nothing is black or white, but instead different shades of grey.
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