Is baptism necessary to be saved?

aggie03 · Aug 17, 2003

I have brought this point up already in one of my other posts, which to my knowledge still has not been addressed (I simply may have missed the reply )

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=947891&postcount=143

Being able to speak in tongues does not equate with salvation. Receiving spiritual gifts does not equate with salvation because there are those in the Bible who have been saved (been forgiven their sins) without having some form of a spiritual gift:

Acts 8:14-17 ASV

Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: (15) who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: (16) for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. (17) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

It is important to harmonize this passage of scripture with Acts 2:38 so that we don't jump to any conclusions without considering the sum of God's word.

There were those who had received the word - which does not mean simply to hear it, but rather to hear and be obedient to - in Samaria. It's also important to note who was sent to them: Peter and John. 2 of the Apostles were sent because there was something they could do that could not and cannot be done by anyone but the Apostles, that is impart spiritual gifts by the laying on of hands. It is also important to note that receiving these gifts is not part of salvation because they had already received the word and been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, which is part of salvation, part of receiving the word. After the Apostles laid their hands on the Samaritans they received the Holy Spirit. So, does this mean that just because someone has been given the ability to speak in tongues that they are saved? No, rather this shows that you can be saved without having any gift, just like the occurence at the house of Cornelius shows that you can have a gift and not be saved.

sbbqb7n16 · Aug 18, 2003

I didn't say "a" gift of the Holy Spirit... I said "the" gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts*2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
3 Acts*10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Acts*1:4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me;
Acts*1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

(Edited to add)So you see then that one must be fogiven before the gift of the Holy Spirit will be given. You even spoke on this in your post in saying that they were forgiven before they recieved gifts of the Spirit. The point is, these Gentiles in Acts 10 did recieve the Spirit before baptism: meaning only one thing... they were forgiven before baptism by water, making water baptism unnecessary for forgiveness and thus salvation.

heb12-2 · Aug 18, 2003

Wow, I take the weekend off, and this thread really took off!

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
James 2 :17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead[carnal christian or unbeliever], being alone[separtated from God]. 18 Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by thy works.

.....................This is for Justification for men NOT GOD ................

Take the time and read James 2 again. look at verse 14, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Jas 2:14).

Is that talking about being saved by men or saved by God?
"Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9)

Now look at verse 21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" (Jas 2:21).

Is that talking about being justified by men or justified by God?

It couldn't have been before men because THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE AROUND! (Gen. 22:5)

......................When did Abraham have Faith................

[size=+2]Abraham's faith was not "faith only"[/size]

By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out... and he went out.... By faith he became a sojourner in the land of promise.... (Heb. 11:8-9)

By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac.... (Heb. 11:17)

you say:

there is not works involved in salvation

But the Bible says:
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works?" (Jam. 2:21)
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (Jas 2:24).

That's you against the Bible, my friend.

heb12-2 · Aug 18, 2003

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
wow

I don't understand this "wow".

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Aug 18, 2003

heb12-2 said:
Wow, I take the weekend off, and this thread really took off!

Take the time and read James 2 again. look at verse 14, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Jas 2:14).

Is that talking about being saved by men or saved by God?
"Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9)

Now look at verse 21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" (Jas 2:21).

Is that talking about being justified by men or justified by God?

It couldn't have been before men because THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE AROUND! (Gen. 22:5)

The Old Testament is for are learning we are seeing it

[size=+2]Abraham's faith was not "faith only"[/size]

30 yrs between faith Gen 15:6 and work Gen 20something

it is called logical reckoning that God gave Abram

By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out... and he went out.... By faith he became a sojourner in the land of promise.... (Heb. 11:8-9)

Did Abram fully obey God .... NO started but stoped in father homeland not till death of him did he obey God

By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac.... (Heb. 11:17)

you say:

But the Bible says:
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works?" (Jam. 2:21)
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (Jas 2:24).

That's you against the Bible, my friend.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God, according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.)

No Baptism at all but by a calling interesting

aggie03 · Aug 19, 2003

sbbqb7n16 said:
I didn't say "a" gift of the Holy Spirit... I said "the" gift of the Holy Spirit.

What exactly do you mean by "the gift of the Holy Spirit"? I just want to make sure that we're talking about the same things here...

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Aug 19, 2003

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of GoD according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

NO BAPTISM NO BELIEF ONLY PURPOSE OF GOD

heb12-2 · Aug 20, 2003

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
The Old Testament is for are learning we are seeing it

30 yrs between faith Gen 15:6 and work Gen 20something

it is called logical reckoning that God gave Abram

Your application (should I say, "misapplication"?) here is misdirected. You're saying that Abraham believed, but didn't work until 30 years later, correct?

Well, first, you need to read the context of Gen. 15 again. This was God's promise to Abraham that he would give him a son out of his own loins, and that all nations would be blessed through the seed of that son. THAT IS WHAT ABRAHAM BELIEVED that the scripture says, "God counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen. 15:6). Abraham's "works" were not involved in this. It was the miracle of God to give him a son at the age 100, and you are calling that Abraham's work? You have no point here.

By the way, as a side point, Abraham was 75 in Gen. 12:4. I'm not sure how much time passed between chapter 12 and 15 but 100 - 75 = 25. So it was probably less than 25 years, not 30.

But the main point is this: God chose the timing here, NOT Abraham.

When God told Abraham to do something, he did it. He didn't put it off as you suggest. In Gen. 22, when God told him to sacrifice his son, "Abraham rose up early in the morning...and went unto the place of which God had told him." (Ge 22:3). He did not wait 30 years to obey God as you suggest.

Did Abram fully obey God .... NO started but stoped in father homeland not till death of him did he obey God[/b]

How do you explain Gen. 26:5? "Because that Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE, and KEPT MY CHARGE, my COMMANDMENTS, my STATUTES, and my LAWS." (Ge 26:5).

Back to the time frame again. Hebrews 11:8 answers your statement above. "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should AFTER receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." (Heb 11:8).

Abraham OBEYED. The time that elapsed in the examples you mentioned was the time that GOD CHOSE to fulfill his promise to him. You misrepresent truth when you imply that Abraham obeyed 30 years after God commanded him.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God, according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.)

This passage again concerns the seed promise given to Abraham. Remember that part about All nations being blessed through Abraham's seed? God had chosen that Christ would come through the lineage of Abraham through his son Isaac, then through Isaac's son Jacob. This does not mean that God made Jacob to be good, but made Esau to be evil. This was talking about how God "chose" to bring his son into the world through the seed of Abraham.

While we're talking about the seed promise, do you know how to become a part of that seed?
The seed is Christ (Gal. 3:16).
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christs, then are ye Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Ga 3:26-4:1).

No Baptism at all but by a calling interesting

We, today are called by the gospel (2 Thes. 2:14)
Gospel says to be be baptized! (Ac. 2:38)

evolisamyth · Aug 20, 2003

I think part of the problem is when we get wrapped around the idea that "since it is commanded that we be baptized, it is required for salvation".

Well here's the rub. Since we are commanded to love each other, it must be required for salvation...since we are commanded to share the gospel, it is required for salvation...since it is commanded that we give to the church, it is required for salvation. Since it is commanded to walk in the light as He is in the light, it must be required for salvation. See what I'm getting at?

Lets take a quick peek at who is being commanded to to what. The saved believer is commanded to to all these things. The unsaved, are commanded to believe, repent, and in faith, trust Christ for their salvation. Nothing else!

There are a multitude of commands for the Christian written in the Bible. But there is but one for the un-believer; and that is to believe.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Aug 20, 2003

heb12-2 said:
Your application (should I say, "misapplication"?) here is misdirected. You're saying that Abraham believed, but didn't work until 30 years later, correct?

Well, first, you need to read the context of Gen. 15 again. This was God's promise to Abraham that he would give him a son out of his own loins, and that all nations would be blessed through the seed of that son. THAT IS WHAT ABRAHAM BELIEVED that the scripture says, "God counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen. 15:6). Abraham's "works" were not involved in this. It was the miracle of God to give him a son at the age 100, and you are calling that Abraham's work? You have no point here.

........James 2:21-24 is abraham Work argue with GOD............

By the way, as a side point, Abraham was 75 in Gen. 12:4. I'm not sure how much time passed between chapter 12 and 15 but 100 - 75 = 25. So it was probably less than 25 years, not 30.

But the main point is this: God chose the timing here, NOT Abraham.

When God told Abraham to do something, he did it. He didn't put it off as you suggest. In Gen. 22, when God told him to sacrifice his son, "Abraham rose up early in the morning...and went unto the place of which God had told him." (Ge 22:3). He did not wait 30 years to obey God as you suggest.

1 cor 10:13 .... who will not suffer you to be tempted above ye are able

How do you explain Gen. 26:5? "Because that Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE, and KEPT MY CHARGE, my COMMANDMENTS, my STATUTES, and my LAWS." (Ge 26:5).

Back to the time frame again. Hebrews 11:8 answers your statement above. "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should AFTER receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." (Heb 11:8).

Abraham OBEYED. The time that elapsed in the examples you mentioned was the time that GOD CHOSE to fulfill his promise to him. You misrepresent truth when you imply that Abraham obeyed 30 years after God commanded him.

gen 12:1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father house, unto a land I will show thee.

What did Abram do? left with his brother lot vs 12:5

that obiedance and belief according to you

Funny how God promise before Gen 15:6 then God made covenants after belief that God was going to fulfill promises....

still argue with the bible are we

This passage again concerns the seed promise given to Abraham. Remember that part about All nations being blessed through Abraham's seed? God had chosen that Christ would come through the lineage of Abraham through his son Isaac, then through Isaac's son Jacob. This does not mean that God made Jacob to be good, but made Esau to be evil. This was talking about how God "chose" to bring his son into the world through the seed of Abraham.

While we're talking about the seed promise, do you know how to become a part of that seed?
The seed is Christ (Gal. 3:16).

yes and the Seed is singular not plural

we are include because the church and christ is one body

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christs, then are ye Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Ga 3:26-4:1).

We, today are called by the gospel (2 Thes. 2:14)
Gospel says to be be baptized! (Ac. 2:38)

heb12-2 · Aug 20, 2003

evolisamyth said:
I think part of the problem is when we get wrapped around the idea that "since it is commanded that we be baptized, it is required for salvation".

Well here's the rub. Since we are commanded to love each other, it must be required for salvation...since we are commanded to share the gospel, it is required for salvation...since it is commanded that we give to the church, it is required for salvation. Since it is commanded to walk in the light as He is in the light, it must be required for salvation. See what I'm getting at?

You are correct in saying that baptism is commanded. See Ac. 10:48. But you are mistaken in lumping baptism in the same boat as other commandments like giving to the church and sharing the gospel. I'll establish that with scripture in a moment.

Lets take a quick peek at who is being commanded to to what.

This is actually a good suggestion. Only you should see with a little study that you put Baptism on the wrong list.

Some requirements PUT us into the body of Christ (Faith, Repentance, Confessing Christ, and Baptism), while other requirements KEEP us in his body (Like walking in the light - 1 Jn. 1:7, living faithful, etc. - Rev. 2:10).

The saved believer is commanded to to all these things.
The unsaved, are commanded to believe, repent, and in faith, trust Christ for their salvation. Nothing else!

I never read the scripture that says believe, repent, and do "nothing else" for your salvation. Could you please quote where you read that?

Were the Jews at Pentecost saved or unsaved when Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Ac 2:38)?

Was Saul saved or unsaved when Ananias told him to "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins" (Ac. 22:16)?

[size=+2]What is baptism for?[/size]

Baptism "saves us" (1 Pet. 3:21; Mk.16:16).
Baptism is "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).
Baptism "washes away sins" (Acts 22:16).
We'll be raised to walk in newness of life if we've been buried with him in baptism (Rom.6:3-5).
We put on Christ when we are baptized (Gal.3:27).
Through baptism, we put off the body of sins (Col.2:10-11).
We are made alive together with him and forgiven all trespasses (Col. 2:13)
Baptism puts us into the one body (1 Cor.12:13).

Again, you have baptism on the wrong list.

There are a multitude of commands for the Christian written in the Bible. But there is but one for the un-believer; and that is to believe.

Now, you are contradicting yourself. First you say that Faith AND Repentance are required for the unbeliever (that's two requirements), and now you're saying "there is but one...and that is believe". Which is it? Is it faith only or faith and repentance? If it's faith and repentance, then that isn't faith only, is it?

Cite the book, chapter and verse that says, "there is but one (commandment) for the unbeliever". If you can't find it, then stop saying it.

twhite982 · Aug 21, 2003

prince didymus said:
Like fragments said, if it was necessary then the thief on the cross (who obviously isn't a thief anymore) didn't get saved. And we know Jesus said that he would be with Him in paradise that very day.

While Jesus' body was in the tomb where did his spirit go?
He did not return to be with his Father. Here is John 20:16-17:

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So where is paradise if Jesus was with the theif on the cross that day and not with his Father in Heaven?

TW

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 21, 2003

heb12-2 said:
You are correct in saying that baptism is commanded. See Ac. 10:48. But you are mistaken in lumping baptism in the same boat as other commandments like giving to the church and sharing the gospel. I'll establish that with scripture in a moment.

This is actually a good suggestion. Only you should see with a little study that you put Baptism on the wrong list.

Some requirements PUT us into the body of Christ (Faith, Repentance, Confessing Christ, and Baptism), while other requirements KEEP us in his body (Like walking in the light - 1 Jn. 1:7, living faithful, etc. - Rev. 2:10).

I never read the scripture that says believe, repent, and do "nothing else" for your salvation. Could you please quote where you read that?

Were the Jews at Pentecost saved or unsaved when Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Ac 2:38)?

Was Saul saved or unsaved when Ananias told him to "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins" (Ac. 22:16)?

[size=+2]What is baptism for?[/size]

Baptism "saves us" (1 Pet. 3:21; Mk.16:16).

Baptism is "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).

Baptism "washes away sins" (Acts 22:16).

We'll be raised to walk in newness of life if we've been buried with him in baptism (Rom.6:3-5).

We put on Christ when we are baptized (Gal.3:27).

Through baptism, we put off the body of sins (Col.2:10-11).

We are made alive together with him and forgiven all trespasses (Col. 2:13)

Baptism puts us into the one body (1 Cor.12:13).

Again, you have baptism on the wrong list.

Now, you are contradicting yourself. First you say that Faith AND Repentance are required for the unbeliever (that's two requirements), and now you're saying "there is but one...and that is believe". Which is it? Is it faith only or faith and repentance? If it's faith and repentance, then that isn't faith only, is it?

Cite the book, chapter and verse that says, "there is but one (commandment) for the unbeliever". If you can't find it, then stop saying it.

Believing needs faith and repentence, without them you aren't truly beleiveing.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Aug 21, 2003

heb12-2 said:
?

were is your responce?

heb12-2 · Aug 21, 2003

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
heb12-2 said:

?

were is your responce?

Click to expand...

Be gracious man. It was only 17 minutes since the previous post.

heb12-2 · Aug 21, 2003

xtxArchxAngelxtx said:
Believing needs faith and repentence, without them you aren't truly beleiveing.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds like you are saying that faith is not true faith unless it is joined with Repentance. Is that what you are saying? If so, then what about confession? You do believe that confession is made "unto salvation" don't you? (Rom. 10:9-10)

Would you then be willing to change your statement to this?:
"Believing needs faith and repentance AND CONFESSION, without them you aren't truly believing."

Then once you understand that "baptism doth also now save us" (1 Pet. 3:21), would you then change your statement to this?:
"Believing needs faith and repentance AND CONFESSION, AND BAPTISM without them you aren't truly believing."

If Repentance is a part of "truly believing" then so is Confession and Baptism!

Notice how Baptism is an ingredient of faith:
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Ga 3:26-27).

Consider Paul's reasoning with that passage:
1. You "are" (present tense) children of God
2. "For" ("introducing the reason")
3. "Have been" (were) baptized
Therefore, Baptism is an essential ingredient of "true faith"

Who are the ones who are "truly believing"? Are they not the ones who believe what Jesus said?

Do you believe what Jesus said in Mk. 16:16? "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ******." (Mk 16:16).

Do you "truly believe" that? It's not enough to claim that you believe in Jesus, and then do not observe what he says.

Jesus said, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Lk 6:46).

heb12-2 · Aug 21, 2003

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
........James 2:21-24 is abraham Work argue with GOD............

I don't understand your point here, could you explain?

1 cor 10:13 .... who will not suffer you to be tempted above ye are able

I'm sorry, but again I don't understand the point you are making here.

gen 12:1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father house, unto a land I will show thee.

What did Abram do? left with his brother lot vs 12:5

that obiedance and belief according to you

No that's not according to me. That's according the scripture:
"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." (Heb 11:8).

You see, I didn't say it was obedience and faith. God did! Here's a question for you on the time frame. When did Abraham go? The answer is in the scripture above: "when he was called to go".

Funny how God promise before Gen 15:6 then God made covenants after belief that God was going to fulfill promises....

Again, I'm missing your point here. God made promises to Abraham in Gen. 12, reafirmed it in ch. 15 with the added information that a son would come from his own loins. He also reminded Isaac and Jacob of the same promises. I don't see your point.

still argue with the bible are we

Who's arguing with the Bible? It is you that has problem with the Baptism passages. Not me.

we are include because the church and christ is one body

That's right "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Ga 3:27), and "baptized into one body" (1 Cor. 12:13).

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Aug 21, 2003

jAMES 2:21-24 Was not Abraham our Father justified by works, when he had offered Issac his son upon the altar. 22 seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made mature? 23 And the scripture was fullfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Here the Scripture tell us even though no one saw WE GET TO READ ABOUT IT BY THE WORD OF GOD

On 1 cor 10:13 God knows us before the foundation of the world and knows how much we can handle ...And what it takes for are Salavation

When my FATHER says it time to go HE MEANS RIGHT NOW

obey the first time........

Now lets look at the verse again..................

Gen 12:1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country[did in vs4], and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house[Gen 11:32 father died], unto a land that I[God] will show thee.

two points

#1 get away from kindred Gen 12:4-5 Abram took Lot
#2 God was showing him if he obeyed when.....Abram did not believe God till Gen 15:6 about having children but not land Gen 15:8 doubts God promise about the land

Gen 15:18 shows him him the land

Big difference between Promise and Covenant

Promise on land Gen 12:7 .....fulfilled in Josh 21:43

Covenant on land Gen 15:18-21.....not yet but will in millial Kingdom

Seed in Christ is Singular and this only goes to Gen 22:17 covenant as thee seed is singuular and thus we {NT believers} have the ability to defend are selfs from are three enemies...flesh...satan...world..

In the old testament they did not have this ability Best Shown in Matt 6:13 in the Lord prayer they ask [and lead us not into tempation] But in James 1:2 count it joy when we fall into various temptations Big deal right wait

Back on track In Gen15:18-21 and 17:6-8 and Gen 17:10-14 SEED is plural and thus the CHURCH is not included in these promises

since you believe in Galations 3:15-16,29

question that could come up where is covenant written about in Gen 22:17 gotta go to Luke 1:68-74 ..............not my word by Gods

For since we are in Christ there is no condemnation since we walk in the Spirit sometimes we are not righteous not one of us and an enemy of God

twhite982 · Aug 21, 2003

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
jAMES 2:21-24 Was not Abraham our Father justified by works, when he had offered Issac his son upon the altar.

He was justified by both!!

TW

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 21, 2003

heb12-2 said:
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds like you are saying that faith is not true faith unless it is joined with Repentance. Is that what you are saying? If so, then what about confession? You do believe that confession is made "unto salvation" don't you? (Rom. 10:9-10)

Would you then be willing to change your statement to this?:
"Believing needs faith and repentance AND CONFESSION, without them you aren't truly believing."

Then once you understand that "baptism doth also now save us" (1 Pet. 3:21), would you then change your statement to this?:
"Believing needs faith and repentance AND CONFESSION, AND BAPTISM without them you aren't truly believing."

If Repentance is a part of "truly believing" then so is Confession and Baptism!

Notice how Baptism is an ingredient of faith:
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Ga 3:26-27).

Consider Paul's reasoning with that passage:
1. You "are" (present tense) children of God
2. "For" ("introducing the reason")
3. "Have been" (were) baptized
Therefore, Baptism is an essential ingredient of "true faith"

Who are the ones who are "truly believing"? Are they not the ones who believe what Jesus said?

Do you believe what Jesus said in Mk. 16:16? "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ******." (Mk 16:16).

Do you "truly believe" that? It's not enough to claim that you believe in Jesus, and then do not observe what he says.

Jesus said, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Lk 6:46).

I was simply saying that beleiving is having faith and repenting.

I am sorry but if I trully believe in my heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and confess with my mouth that he is Lord, then for some reason get hit by a bus and die 5 mins later, that I will go to heaven.

For we have salvation through our faith, not by our works, and bapisim my friend, is a work and nothing more then simply showing the rest of the world that you are saved, which is simply a commandment.

Yes a commandment is a big thing, but however, if I am saved, but I lie, I am not going to hell for the simple fact I am forgiven.

I am willing to say that it's the same thing as baptisim. If I have accepted christ into my heart, but choose to not be baptised for whatever reason, then I am simply breaking a commandment, which is forgiven.

By the way, I was saved nearly 3 years ago and wasn't baptised till 7 months ago. The first 2 1/2 years, I felt God, and he did work in my life.

When I was baptised, nothing really changed, I got a bit wet and my family knew I was serious about my faith, and they asked questions and were more invovled with my beliefes, but is wasn't much of anything.

So are you saying that if I was killed a day before my baptisim that I would of gone to hell? Even if I was producing fruit? (leading people to Christ)? I think not.

and the context of EVERY scripture that I have seen posted is taken out of context one way or another and can be read a different way.

Sorry been I read "Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord, then you shall be SAVED" I beleive it means just that.

Is baptism necessary to be saved?

Veritas Vos Liberabit

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Saved by grace through faith.

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