Is baptism necessary to be saved?

aggie03 said:

. . .
Because we are preaching different things, this means that only one of us can then be correct...so I pray that we might search the scriptures together and learn the Truth that they teach.

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Amen. Me too.

CrossMovement said:

No you don't get my point read this : Holy spirit is when you accept him as your personal savior . The baptism in the water is the proof that you have given your life to Christ.

You must first accept him and then get baptize in the water to gave hte proof that you have given your life to Christ. (It is a proof)

You can accept him as your personnal savior , however you must get baptize after to prove that you really want to gave you life to Christ , simply as that.

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If you accepted Him as your Savior then why don't you believe you are saved already?

sbbqb7n16 said:

Okay... here ya go

Person #1: The theif on the cross

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The thief on the cross did not go to heaven. He went to the division of Sheol known as Abraham's busom, or paradise, the other division being Tartarus, or torment, with a gulf separating the two (Luke 16 19:31).

Acts*2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This verse clearly says that once you have forgiveness of your sins.. .then you can recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit, right? Well then what happened here if forgiveness of sins is through baptism?

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No, this verse tells us that we are to be baptized for the remission of our sins, and after we have been baptized for the remission of our sins, then we can receive the gift of, or the gift from the Holy Spirit, which is the actual forgiveness of our sins.

Acts*10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
Acts*10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts*10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts*10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts*10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts*10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days

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We could spend a long time talking about these verses, but I think that the problems you're having harmonizing thise verse can be answered by addressing a simple misunderstanding .

Belief in this passage does not mean a mere intellectual resignation to the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Annointed One, the Son of God - but rather it also includes an obedience to the commands that are given.

I'll offer another verse and various translations to show this point. Please pay special attention to the words that are used for the counter to believes. This will give us an excellent and true understanding of what is meant by "believe":

John 3:36

NIV: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him

NASB: He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

NLT: And all who believe in God's Son have eternal life. Those who don't obey the Son will never experience eternal life, but the wrath of God remains upon them."

KJV: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

ESV: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

ASV: He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

YLT: he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

Obedience is inclusive in belief .

Hmmm these people recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit before they were baptized

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No, these people did no receive the remission of their sins before they were baptized, but rather they were able to speak in tongues so that all might know truly that God had intended salvation also for the Gentiles, not the Jew alone.

Interesting... I thought you wanted me to believe that forgiveness came through baptism, and that the gift of the Holy Spirit came after forgiveness.

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We are baptized for the remission of our sins, but they are not forgiven us because we are baptized. They are forgiven because God has chosen to forgive us. There is no inherent power in the water, it's all because of God's grace !

That's what Acts 2:38 says anyways. But these people recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit and weren't baptised yet?

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Being able to speak in tongues does not equate with salvation or the forgiveness of sins - which is the gift of the Holy Spirit, or the gift from the Holy Spirit. Make no mistake, the Holy Spirit had been poured out on these people, they were speaking in tongues, but their sins were not forgiven.

sbbqb7n16 said:

Actually learned it in church just this Wed. The purpose of the New Covenant is to allow us to come freely to God right? Well the veil was torn the moment that Christ died... therefore God was showing all His Presence was now available when the veil was torn. If you don't believe that I'd like to know why as well


I'm wondering why you think the first gospel sermon was in Acts....

Matt 11:5 the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM.

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what gospel?

there are 12 + gospels

Luke 3:18 So with many other exhortations he preached the gospel to the people.

Luke 4:18 "THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,

Luke 9:6 Departing, they began going throughout the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.

Luke 16:16 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

Luke 20:1 On one of the days while He was teaching the people in the temple and preaching the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes with the elders confronted Him,

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[edited to add]Probably should answer the rest of it right lol Sorry

The church is just the body of believers in Christ.

Acts*5:14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number,

This doesn't say "the church" was growing but rather "more believers" and apparently this thief was a believer.

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believer yes but OLD TESTAMENT Believer Holy Spirit was present [But Dead] to put him in the body of Christ not till Act 2yet he will be their in the millial kingdom

PS. do you have any comment on Personel message

sbbqb7n16 said:

Okay... here ya go

Person #1: The thief on the cross

Persons #we don't know how many:

Acts*2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This verse clearly says that once you have forgiveness of your sins.. .then you will recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit, right? Well then what happened here if forgiveness of sins is through baptism?

Acts*10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
Acts*10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts*10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts*10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts*10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts*10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days

Hmmm these people recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit before they were baptized. Interesting... I thought you wanted me to believe that forgiveness came through baptism, and that the gift of the Holy Spirit came after forgiveness. That's what Acts 2:38 says anyways. But these people recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit and weren't baptised yet? Your theology makes that impossible.

So answer me this: how did these Gentiles recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE they recieved water baptism?

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The thief on the cross said to Jesus : I believe in you and then Jesus said (I will generalise , its noit the exact translation) : You will be saved. He said that before Jesus died so you don't make many point of saying that Jesus died first.

They have been 1 person who has been stated who has been saved and it is the thief and this was to show that a person can be saved if he truly believe that christ is our savior and if he Can't have water baptism , because of real cirscontance.

No strong argument for the Acts thing , again you do not bring out all the context , because it is the entire bible that we knew to know , not just search in a website for a link and type for example , Holy spirit and then put out the verse to say that we are right (I don't say you did that but I don't base my belief on only some verse , I base my belief in all the bible.

CrossMovement said:

The thief on the cross said to Jesus : I believe in you and then Jesus said : You will be saved. He said that before Jesus died so you don't make many point of saying that Jesus died first.

They have been 1 person who has been stated who has been saved and it is the thief and this was to show that a person can be saved if he truly believe that christ is our savior and if he Can't have water baptism , because of real cirscontance.

No strong argument for the Acts thing , again you do not bring out all the context , because it is the entire bible that we knew to know , not just search in a website for a link and type for example , Holy spirit and then put out the verse to say that we are right (I don't say you did that but I don't base my belief on only some verse , I base my belief in all the bible.

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John*19:31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
John*19:32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;
John*19:33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

Because Jesus was alive His legs weren't broken... because they were theirs were. They were alive after Christ had died. Therefore the thief died AFTER Christ' death AFTER the tearing of the veil and thus under the New Covenant. That is my point.

You obviously don't understand enough about what the Acts passage means, and you can't just pass it off for no reason. You wanted an example of people who were saved without baptism... so I gave you two Biblical examples of people saved in such manner. Just because you don't understand it, you can't write it off as meaningless. The people from the Acts passage were saved BEFORE baptism, and there is no way of getting around that. Baptism is not neccessary for salvation.

And you say you base your belief in all the Bible...yet you deny this passage. It is part of the Bible! If you don't believe this passage, then you apparently don't believe the whole Bible... just the parts you want to.

sbbqb7n16 said:

If you accepted Him as your Savior then why don't you believe you are saved already?

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Because you must give a proof that you really accepted him , You can say : Oh I accept you , and then it's finish. But by doing the water baptism , you give the proof that you are really convict of giving your life to christ. You are giving your proof in front of god and christ just like Jesus Jesus believe but have been baptize by water after to prove is believing

sbbqb7n16 said:

John*19:31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
John*19:32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;
John*19:33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

Because Jesus was alive His legs weren't broken... because they were theirs were. They were alive after Christ had died. Therefore the thief died AFTER Christ' death AFTER the tearing of the veil and thus under the New Covenant. That is my point.

You obviously don't understand enough about what the Acts passage means, and you can't just pass it off for no reason. You wanted an example of people who were saved without baptism... so I gave you two Biblical examples of people saved in such manner. Just because you don't understand it, you can't write it off as meaningless. The people from the Acts passage were saved BEFORE baptism, and there is no way of getting around that. Baptism is not neccessary for salvation.

And you say you base your belief in all the Bible...yet you deny this passage. It is part of the Bible! If you don't believe this passage, then you apparently don't believe the whole Bible... just the parts you want to.

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He said to Jesus that he believe in him , He said that to him. It's not just the acts thing that is important , the other book bring up the context to.

Water baptism is not necessary to be saved.

Rom*10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom*10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Confession is made with your mouth... not water.

sbbqb7n16 said:

John*19:31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
John*19:32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;
John*19:33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

Because Jesus was alive His legs weren't broken... because they were theirs were. They were alive after Christ had died. Therefore the thief died AFTER Christ' death AFTER the tearing of the veil and thus under the New Covenant. That is my point.

You obviously don't understand enough about what the Acts passage means, and you can't just pass it off for no reason. You wanted an example of people who were saved without baptism... so I gave you two Biblical examples of people saved in such manner. Just because you don't understand it, you can't write it off as meaningless. The people from the Acts passage were saved BEFORE baptism, and there is no way of getting around that. Baptism is not neccessary for salvation.



And you say you base your belief in all the Bible...yet you deny this passage. It is part of the Bible! If you don't believe this passage, then you apparently don't believe the whole Bible... just the parts you want to.

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I don't believe just 1 passage because 1 passage does not bring up all the context , It is easy to just give 3 verse and then after let the other.

You will not convict me with just 3 verse , Yes I accept those verse , but for the context it's different , A little verse can't be the context of a book , to you get what i'm saying by that ?

sbbqb7n16 said:

Okay... here ya go

Person #1: The thief on the cross

Persons #we don't know how many:

Acts*2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This verse clearly says that once you have forgiveness of your sins.. .then you will recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit, right? Well then what happened here if forgiveness of sins is through baptism?

Acts*10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
Acts*10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts*10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts*10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts*10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts*10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days

Hmmm these people recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit before they were baptized. Interesting... I thought you wanted me to believe that forgiveness came through baptism, and that the gift of the Holy Spirit came after forgiveness. That's what Acts 2:38 says anyways. But these people recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit and weren't baptised yet? Your theology makes that impossible.

So answer me this: how did these Gentiles recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE they recieved water baptism?

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Holy spirit is first and I have always said that , but water baptism is the PROOF that you have given your life to christ after the Holy spirit. You have misunderstood me I think

Okay you want context: Read Acts 10 and 11... I posted the last line of Peter's sermon and the events the Bible records as happening up until the end of chapter 10... but you want the rest of it here for you so here goes:

Acts*10:30 Cornelius said, "Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments,
Acts*10:31 and he *said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.
Acts*10:32 'Therefore send to Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.'
Acts*10:33 "So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."
Acts*10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,
Acts*10:35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.
Acts*10:36 "The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--
Acts*10:37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.
Acts*10:38 "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
Acts*10:39 "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.
Acts*10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
Acts*10:41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
Acts*10:42 "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.
Acts*10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
Acts*10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts*10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts*10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts*10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts*10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

CrossMovement said:

Holy spirit is first and I have always said that , but water baptism is the PROOF that you have given your life to christ after the Holy spirit. You have misunderstood me I think

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Actually the Holy Spirit's presence is the proof that you have given your life to Christ.

2 Cor*1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,
2 Cor*1:22 who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Pledge is the same term as was used for weddings in that day. Like a ring for today. Not baptism.

sbbqb7n16 said:

John*19:31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
John*19:32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;
John*19:33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

Because Jesus was alive His legs weren't broken... because they were theirs were. They were alive after Christ had died. Therefore the thief died AFTER Christ' death AFTER the tearing of the veil and thus under the New Covenant. That is my point.

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There's something that you have failed to note however, and that is that the kingdom, that is the church, hadn't been started yet. Christ hadn't finished what he had come to do yet, he hadn't risen from the grave. Not all of the prophets and scriptures had been fulfilled yet. In short the New Covenant had not yet begun. It would begin on the day of Pentecost when the kingdom would come with power and Peter would preach to the Jews who had crucified Christ.

You obviously don't understand enough about what the Acts passage means, and you can't just pass it off for no reason. You wanted an example of people who were saved without baptism... so I gave you two Biblical examples of people saved in such manner. Just because you don't understand it, you can't write it off as meaningless. The people from the Acts passage were saved BEFORE baptism, and there is no way of getting around that. Baptism is not neccessary for salvation.

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You have given your interpretation of two passages which when harmonized with the rest of the Bible does not stand. When you harmonize the passages it is impossible to make sound the doctrine of salvation without baptism for the remission of sins.

And you say you base your belief in all the Bible...yet you deny this passage. It is part of the Bible! If you don't believe this passage, then you apparently don't believe the whole Bible... just the parts you want to.

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While this may or may not have been addressed to me, I feel the need to answer it. The views that you have presented are views that are made possible only when the verses that you have quoted are removed from the context of the rest of the scriptures. I am not attacking you personally, that is never my aim, but the views that you have put forth based on a few passages simply do not harmonize with the entirety of the Scriptures teachings.

Also, I do believe the things that the passages from Acts 10 teach, just because that doesn't align with what you say teach doesn't mean that I ignore them, and trust me, I do believe in the whole Bible .

sbbqb7n16 said:

Okay you want context: Read Acts 10 and 11... I posted the last line of Peter's sermon and the events the Bible records as happening up until the end of chapter 10... but you want the rest of it here for you so here goes:

Acts*10:30 Cornelius said, "Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments,
Acts*10:31 and he *said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.
Acts*10:32 'Therefore send to Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.'
Acts*10:33 "So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."
Acts*10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,
Acts*10:35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.
Acts*10:36 "The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--
Acts*10:37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.
Acts*10:38 "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
Acts*10:39 "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.
Acts*10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
Acts*10:41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
Acts*10:42 "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.
Acts*10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
Acts*10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts*10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts*10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts*10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts*10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

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I'll come back to you with strong argument later , I want to take time to write my post because I want my post to be very clear. Taking my time is better for me then just reply back from a post.

Just wait

sbbqb7n16 said:

Okay you want context: Read Acts 10 and 11... I posted the last line of Peter's sermon and the events the Bible records as happening up until the end of chapter 10... but you want the rest of it here for you so here goes:

Acts*10:30 Cornelius said, "Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments,
Acts*10:31 and he *said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.
Acts*10:32 'Therefore send to Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.'
Acts*10:33 "So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."
Acts*10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,
Acts*10:35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.
Acts*10:36 "The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--
Acts*10:37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.
Acts*10:38 "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
Acts*10:39 "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.
Acts*10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
Acts*10:41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
Acts*10:42 "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.
Acts*10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
Acts*10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts*10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts*10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts*10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts*10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

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By the way , what is that translation of the bible?????????? this is not my translation and my bible does not says trhat and I have try 3 other bible translation too.

Acts 10 : 47Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."

the context is not the same , what is your bible ??

remission of sins by water baptism is wrong according to Romans 10:9-10

according to 1 cor 12:13 baptism is by the Spirit

according to John 7:37-39 The H.S. is living water coming out of the belly of the believer

according to Romans 3:10-11 no man is righteous none understandeth or seeketh

according to Gal 5 :22-23 Spirit gives Faith

according to 1 Cor 2:10 only the spirit searches all things yes the deep things of God

according to John 6:29 This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

according to luke 18:26-27 its immpossible for men and possible with God.

Reason why we can confess our sins Heb 2:17, 3:1, 4:15, 7:26 we are priest.... shhhhhh do not tell the catholics

ect ect ect.

,,,.,

CrossMovement said:

By the way , what is that translation of the bible?????????? this is not my translation and my bible does not says trhat and I have try 3 other bible translation too.

Acts 10 : 47Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."

the context is not the same , what is your bible ??

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That translation is the New American Standard (NASB - found here http://www.studybibleforum.com/ with all the Greek and Hebrew words too) but irregardless...

Your translation still has Peter saying that they recieved the Holy Spirit but had not yet been baptised ("from being" -future tense). So my argument still remains valid. These were not baptised in water, but yet had already recieved the promised gift of the Holy Spirit, which Acts 2:38 says only happens after forgiveness has been recieved. So if they had already recieved the Spirit without baptism, then they must have already recieved forgiveness without baptism.