• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is baptism necessary to be saved?

Status
Not open for further replies.

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟27,029.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Okay, let's just look at verse 28 for a second.

John 6:28 ASV

They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?

Who is asking the question? Those who have approached Jesus. They are people, ordinary people like you and me.

They asked Jesus a question about what THEY HAD TO DO in order to do a certain work.

What kind of work did they want to do? They wanted to do the work that comes from God, or the work of God. Again, this was something that they knew THEY HAD TO DO.
 
Upvote 0
A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
FC where does it say Man has to work....
.This is the work of God



Romans 4:5 But to him[humans] that worketh not but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
NOTICE ...that Jesus did not answer there question
 
Upvote 0

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟27,029.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Jesus does answer their question...He tells them that they have to believe. This is the word of God, or the work from God, that God wants THEM to do. THEY have to believe - God will not force them to believe.

*EDIT*

This is what Christ tells them in the next verse:

John 6:29 ASV

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You have to remember that the question Jesus is answering is what work can they do that is from God. The work that the Jews can do that is from God is to believe in Christ. This is something that THEY have to do.

*END EDIT*
 
Upvote 0
The reason why it is God's work
we cannot understandeth or seeketh God...
what verse ..oh yeh romans 3:10-11

So God has to help us believe Eph 2:4-9 great verse

John 16:7-14 what the Holy Spirit does for us
ephesians 1:4 what the Father does for US
1 cor 15:2-4......Jesus does for us
 
Upvote 0

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟27,029.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't believe that we can understand God on our own. I don't believe that I can understand you or know you - unless you tell me about yourself.

The same is true with God.

The only way that we can know anything about God is if He tells us. God does tell us about himself through His word.

It is also through His word that we are able to believe in Him (Romans 10:17).
 
Upvote 0
F

Florida College

Guest
Originally Posted By: A Brethren IN CHRIST

FC where does it say Man has to work....

In John 6:29 - "that you believe in Him." That is Jesus' answer to their question. Belief is something that man does. Consider: What did Paul and Silas tell the jailor to do in Acts 16:31? There is your answer. Faith is something that man does. It is a work - - not a work that God does - - but a work that man does.

This is the work of God

Faith is not the work of God (John 6:28-29). Faith is the work which God would have us so. If faith is the work of God, then who becomes responsible when men don't believe in Jesus?

Romans 4:5 But to him[humans] that worketh not but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I see why you misunderstand. Rom 4:5 is discussing works under the law of Moses (note the context of chapter 3 as the discussion continues into chapter 4). Faith is accounted for righteousness. But faith is a conviction that man develops based on his hearing of God's word (Rom.10:17). Faith drives on to obey the Lord in baptism (Mk 16:16, Gal. 3:26-27, & Col. 2:12).

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
NOTICE ...that Jesus did not answer there question

In John 6:28-29, Jesus does answer their question. He tells them to "believe in Him." He does not tell them that God will believe for them!
 
Upvote 0
F

Florida College

Guest
 
Upvote 0
Once again verses please to were faith comes from ...Gal 5:22

CLUE THE HOLY SPIRIT

"FC thats not fair" other posts

not fair God can do anything He wants 1 sam 2:6-8

"FC quote....faith from hearing"

but a lot of men hear the word and do not believe explain this..

NO help from Holy Spirit ...Gal 5:22

Romans 4:5 or titus 3:5 same message by God's mercy not of any kind of works get get salvation

this happens not once but twice for God to make a point but you do not see it...sorry

please believe the Good News1 cor 15:3-4 and he is alive right now!


please do not believe in vain
1 cor 15:2
 
Upvote 0
F

Florida College

Guest
Evangelist,

Here is the repost of #460 from page 46.

FC


Quote:
Originally Posted by: evangelist

Water baptism is a work is this true?

Yes. Baptism is a work.
This is what I based my conclusion on: The Greek noun that is frequently tranlated “work” in the New Testament is “ergon.” Ergon is defined in Young’s Analytical Concordance as work, a deed, or business; Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines it as work, employment, or a task. Ergon appears 176 times in the KJV of the N.T. It is tranlated “work” 152 times, “deed” 22 times, “doing” 1 time, and “labour” 1 time (according to Strong’s). It is translated “deed” in Col.3:17, “And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.” Since baptism is a deed that is done “in the name of the Lord” (by his authority), then baptism is a work.


We are saved by grace , and if baptism is a work then this work will cancel out grace is this true??

Yes. I do believe we are saved by grace i.e. Rom.3:4, Eph.2:8-9, ***. 3:7. But I do NOT believe that grace is the only factor in man’s salvation. Titus 2:11 says, “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men” (NKJV). But I conclude that all men will not be saved when I read Matt. 7:13-14, “Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” Therefore, the understanding is that man is saved by grace, but NOT by grace alone.

Does baptism cancel out grace? We have previously determined that man is saved by grace, but NOT saved by grace alone. So, it must be concluded that other factors are involved in man’s salvation. What are those factors? A quick reading of Eph.2:8-9 or Rom.4:2-5 would lead us to eliminate all works: thus, we are saved by faith. Correct? End of story. Right? Not quite. We have already concluded that baptism is a work (ergon). Correct? But, according to John 6:28-29, Faith is also a work! “Then they said to Him, ‘what shall we do, that we may work [ergon] the works of God.’ Jesus answered and said to them, ‘This is the work [ergon] of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” The work God required was to believe in Jesus. Faith, or belief is a work (ergon) or deed that is required. So, as you can see, the original question has become a little more complicated, hasn’t it? If we reason that baptism (a work) cancels out grace, the same logic demands that belief (a work) cancels out grace. So, what are we to do? Heb. 11:6 plainly says, “But without faith it is impossible to please him.” What a dilemma?

At this point, I would be compelled to go back and read and study Eph.2:8-9 and Rom. 4:2-5 more diligently. I would also pull out a study aid that would help me find other places in the N.T. where other scriptures discussed works and grace, or works and faith. James 2:14-26 would really open my eyes if I concluded salvation involved no works at all. And if I was a really an attentive bible student, I would recognize that Rom.4:2-5 and James 2:21-24 seem to contradict each other. But because I understood that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Tim.3:16), I would realize that the fault would not lie in the holy scriptures, but that the fault would lie somewhere in my understanding. Studying Rom. chapter 3 and on into chapter 4 would make me realize that the works being discussed are circumcision and works required under the law of Moses. I would then study James 2, concluding that Abraham's works involved doing what God told him to (vs.21) - - to offer Isaac as a sacrifice. As I used my study aids, I would discover the depth of Abraham’s faith as he obeyed God (Heb.11:17-19). Then I would study Eph.2:8-9, concluding that the works being discussed are works that men could boast about - - or works of human merit. I might be a little confused when I studied the works of righteousness in ***.3:5, but when I remembered that Cornelius (in Act 10) was a devout man that performed righteous works, I would realize that his works of righteousness alone were not enough to save him - - he needed the gospel of Christ.

And as I sat back and allowed all that I had studied about the relationship of works and grace, and works and faith, to soak in, I would turn to turn to Matt.7:21 and read that passage. “Not everyone that says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” Okay, now I understand how it works. Salvation comes by the grace of God, not by circumcision, works under the law of Moses, human works, or works of righteousness. But according to what Jesus said in Matt.7:21, I have to do the Father’s will, or what God requires of me - - just like Abraham in James 2:24. As I consider what God requires today under the law of Christ, I conclude that after hearing the gospel, faith is required (John 3:16 ; Mk.16:16), repentance is required (Lk.13:3,5 ; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 17:30), confession of Jesus is required (Matt. 10:32-33 ; Rom.10:9 ; Acts 8:37), and baptism is required (Mk.16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16) to become a Christian. Now, I can take comfort in these words, “He became the author of eternal life unto all who obey him” (Heb.5:9).

After I have obeyed the Lord by doing all that he has initially commanded me to do to become a Christian, I have nothing to boast about - - and I have earned nothing - - I have simply done what God requires of me.

I then study the fall of Jericho is Joshua chapter 6. God said that he gave the Israelites the city in vs.2. But then he had commandments that they needed to obey before he gave them the city. The story is interesting and boosts my faith. I think I will share it with my friends who misunderstand the nature of the works that God’s requires of his people today.

So, to answer your question, “Does baptism cancel out grace?” The anwer is NO. It doesn’t. Baptism is an act of faith (Col.2:12) that puts one INTO Christ (Gal.3:26-27), where she/he will have redemption through his blood (Eph.1:7). Can anyone claim redemption without the blood of Christ (1 Pet.1:18-19)?


If we believe and fall in Love with Christ then after we will want to do what ever pleases Christ, and that includ, bible study, going to church , and you will want to pray, and love to trust God, and His Word, and help the poor and homeless, and in your christian walk get baptized as a step as following jesus and showing that you are buried in Christ.

God Bless
 
Upvote 0
F

Florida College

Guest
 
Upvote 0
Once again verses please to were faith comes from ...Gal 5:22

CLUE THE HOLY SPIRIT


not fair God can do anything He wants 1 sam 2:6-8

"FC quote....faith from hearing"

but a lot of men hear the word and do not believe explain this..

"BUT THAT NOT FAIR" fc quote
man has choice and he will always choose to do evil over rightouesness

NO help from Holy Spirit ...Gal 5:22 gives faith

"not fair not fair quote fc " now read 1 sam 2:6-8,duet 32:39

Romans 4:5 or titus 3:5 same message by God's mercy not of any kind of works get get salvation

this happens not once but twice for God to make a point but you do not see it...sorry

please believe the Good News1 cor 15:3-4 and he is alive right now!


please do not believe in vain
1 cor 15:2 like matt 7:21,22 did their own wonderful works not God's ,23

not of works but of mercy and grace, eph 2:4-9,titus 3:5, romans 4:5, 2 cor 5:21, romans 11:6
 
Upvote 0
F

Florida College

Guest
 
Upvote 0
once again verses please to were faith comes from ...Gal 5:22

CLUE THE HOLY SPIRIT....Give the ability to have faith to believe the word


not fair God can do anything He wants 1 sam 2:6-8
FC have you read this verse

"FC quote....faith from hearing"

but a lot of men hear the word and do not believe explain this..

"BUT THAT NOT FAIR" fc quote
man has choice and he will always choose to do evil over rightouesness

God Chose a few.....matt 20:16,matt 22:14...to give the ability to recieve faith

NO help from Holy Spirit ...Gal 5:22 gives faith

"not fair not fair quote fc "
now read 1 sam 2:6-8,duet 32:39

Romans 4:5 or titus 3:5 same message by God's mercy not of any kind of works get get salvation

this happens not once but twice for God to make a point but you do not see it...sorry

please believe the Good News1 cor 15:3-4 and he is alive right now!


please do not believe in vain
1 cor 15:2 like matt 7:21,22 did their own wonderful works not God's ,23

not of works but of mercy and grace, eph 2:4-9,titus 3:5, romans 4:5, 2 cor 5:21, romans 11:6

you do not understand intial salvation, present tense salvation, and future salvation and you have not replied to my posts in the past
 
Upvote 0

xsimmsx

A New Creature
Nov 4, 2003
246
1
45
Philadelphia
✟15,391.00
Faith
Christian
Wow their are so many posts in this thread. So I will give my answer.

You must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to be saved from your sins. But the walk of faith does not end their it is however a road that you have to cross in order to receive remission.

I know that their will be challenges to my statement but that is OK Jesus is with me bring it on.


IN THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH,
Joshua
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.