Is baptism necessary to be saved?

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

So, the conclusion to be drawn is...

Is baptism ABSOLUTELY necessary for every person who died after Christ did? Can not say yes for sure, can not say no for sure.

Based on what I know about the character and nature of God, I draw my conclusions. Based on what you read from Luke in Acts and other letters, you draw your conclusions.

Another conclusion that is easy to draw is that Jesus said to be baptized. If we examine ourselves, we can tell whether or not we are truly converted to Christ by whether or not we are following such commands.

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 said:
I think saying that obedience is necessary for salvation is misleading. I think that people who choose Christ are saved and I think that people who choose Christ follow His way.

However I think that if you are going to say that obedience is necessary for salvation, you have to be a little more specific, because no one is going to obey God perfectly.

How is it misleading? Heb. 5:9. "How readest thou?"

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

heb12-2 said:
Since those cases are not your situation, why not be baptized "for the remission of sins" (Ac. 2:38) today, so you don't have to concern yourself with those scenarios?

And this is true for us both. If you are not concerning yourself of those situations then you can not make general statements that include those people. For instance the out and out statement that baptism is necessary for salvation. You could say that it is for you, but you can not make a general statement like that without including these cases, of which we are not sure.

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

YAQUBOS said:
Peace be with you!

I believe Baptism is very important for Salvation, but not according to John 3.

The Lord bless you.
Yaqubos

Why not according to Jn. 3? What about verse 5? "What think ye?"

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

heb12-2 said:
How is it misleading? Heb. 5:9. "How readest thou?"

Obeying Christ is showing your faith. Living faith has the product of obedience. However, when you say that baptism is necessary for salvation, it gives the impression that baptism is somehow what opens that door and pays for your salvation. I do not agree with the impression and the connotation of that phrase. That is why I choose to word my impression of the gospel differently.

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

heb12-2 said:
How is it misleading? Heb. 5:9. "How readest thou?"

I am not trying to be rude, but I really despise old english... could we speak in modern english?

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 said:
So, the conclusion to be drawn is...

Is baptism ABSOLUTELY necessary for every person who died after Christ did? Can not say yes for sure, can not say no for sure.

Why can't you say for sure?

If When You Are Baptized, You:

Put on christ (Gal. 3:27)
Wash away sins (Ac. 22:16)
Have "remission of sins" (Ac. 2:38)
Are made free from sin (Rom. 6:17-18)
Benefit from Jesus' death (Rom. 6:3-4)
Enter the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13)

Then, What Is Your Condition Without Baptism?

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 said:
And this is true for us both. If you are not concerning yourself of those situations then you can not make general statements that include those people. For instance the out and out statement that baptism is necessary for salvation. You could say that it is for you, but you can not make a general statement like that without including these cases, of which we are not sure.

If baptism is "for the remission of sins" (Ac. 2:38), and one hasn't been baptized, then their sins have not yet been remitted. Why can't we be sure about that? Isn't that what the scriptures say?

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 said:
Obeying Christ is showing your faith. Living faith has the product of obedience. However, when you say that baptism is necessary for salvation, it gives the impression that baptism is somehow what opens that door and pays for your salvation. I do not agree with the impression and the connotation of that phrase. That is why I choose to word my impression of the gospel differently.

What's wrong with wording it the way the scriptures do? "Baptism doth also now save us" (1 Pet. 3:21)

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

Becuase that was followed by an explanation. I am fine with saying that with the explanation. However, I am pretty dang sure that Peter was not saying that baptism is what does it. You agree I would hope.

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 said:
I am not trying to be rude, but I really despise old english... could we speak in modern english?

"How readest thou?" is a quote of Jesus in Lk. 10:26 (KJV). Is it the KJV that you despise? I don't believe the KJV is the only reliable translation, but it is the one I choose to use. There are many who will not listen to any other, so I save myself the trouble of crossing that hurdle with them and use what all recognize and respect.

YAQUBOS · Sep 11, 2003

heb12-2 said:
Why not according to Jn. 3? What about verse 5? "What think ye?"

Sorry. I do not insist. I didn't have to say this in this way. Sorry again.

Thank you.
Yaqubos

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 said:
Becuase that was followed by an explanation. I am fine with saying that with the explanation. However, I am pretty dang sure that Peter was not saying that baptism is what does it. You agree I would hope.

I have no problem in saying, "Baptism doth also now save us", because that's what Peter said. (1 Pet. 3:21). The explanation just gives further meaning: that's it's not washing the outside, but the inside, and it's through Christ's resurrection. You said that "Peter was not saying that baptism is what does it". what was he saying that baptism "doth also now" do?

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

YAQUBOS said:
It is not about Baptism.

If John 3:5 is not about baptism as you say, then what is it about?

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

Just giving you a hard time about the old english.

Aaron11 · Sep 11, 2003

I think that responding to Jesus's wishes of being baptized answers to a clean concience, which is what Jesus wants, is an answer of our concience. Christ paid it. I think it is getting to the point where we realize that we basically agree, it is just symantics that we lack in common. I am going to bed now. Nice talking to you. Goodnight.

heb12-2 · Sep 11, 2003

Aaron11 said:
Just giving you a hard time about the old english.

That's fine.

YAQUBOS · Sep 11, 2003

heb12-2 said:
If John 3:5 is not about baptism as you say, then what is it about?

I apologize. This must not be treated in this way.

With Love,
Yaqubos

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 11, 2003

heb12-2 said:
You say you believe that God said "to get water baptism". Well, could you prove it then? Which passages will you go to?

Why you know most of water baptism verses and you take from spirit baptism as well into the water arguement

You say that "it's not for initial salvation". Could you tell me which verse says that?

all ready have

The 2 Pet. 2:20-22 that you quoted clearly shows that a Christian can sin so as to be lost: "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." But I don't understand why you brought this verse up. You are right that you are off the subject on that. Let's stick to baptism on this thread.

DID YOU READ 2 Peter 3:9

God is still faith ful even though a believer may be disobiedant this does not condemn him ....this is so clear.....

Is baptism necessary to be saved?

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