Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[KCDAD]

As it turns out, my minister today actually quoted some honking big Dictionary o' Theology that said something like: no core concept of Christianity has such a divergence of beliefs/definitions [as "salvation"].

I am not surprised... I can't two Christians to agree on what sin is.

 

[Soul Searcher]

So, SS: are you still here? (Your last post suggested you were done with this ****, and fair enough.) I'd like to ask some questions of you (with honest intent, unlike some others). Are you still reading this thread, or should I start another? What about you, KCDAD?.

I'm still subscribed and checking in from time to time, Gonna be pretty busy over the next few days but will be online here and there.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Jesus was talking about the garbage dump! It was a figure of speech, like "the boogie man" or "cold as hell".

Let's see what Jesus was talking about:

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire" ( Mark 9:43 )

So hell is the unquenchable fire.

I don't see where Jesus said that hell is the garbage dump. If you think He said that, then I would like to see where He said that.

Thank you in advance.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

It was supposed to be a parody of your nonsense.... you are the one condemning them to hell... not me.

Please, show us where I ever condemned babies to hell?

I insist on babies, although I never condemned ANYONE to hell. But I insist on them, because we are talking about them, and it seems that you mean that I believe babies are condemned to hell by God.

So please show us where I said that babies are condemned to hell.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Let's see what Jesus was talking about:

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire" ( Mark 9:43 )

So hell is the unquenchable fire.

I don't see where Jesus said that hell is the garbage dump. If you think He said that, then I would like to see where He said that.

Thank you in advance.

YAQUBOS†

How come so many Christians have two hands?

 

[KCDAD]

Please, show us where I ever condemned babies to hell?

I insist on babies, although I never condemned ANYONE to hell. But I insist on them, because we are talking about them, and it seems that you mean that I believe babies are condemned to hell by God.

So please show us where I said that babies are condemned to hell.

YAQUBOS†

Didn't you say baptism was necessary for salvation? Salvation from what?

 

[YAQUBOS]

So if I do the right thing... if I never hurt anyone or do anything wrong...if I obey ALL the law... I will still be condemned because my attitude isn't right?

The Law of God is spiritual, KCDAD. You can't do it outwardly and claim that you did it.

Let me give you an example of the Law:

"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might." ( Deuteronomy 6:5 )

You can't just do this outwardly. Your heart attitude is essential.

Another example:

"Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul" ( Deuteronomy 10:12 )

Another example:

"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead." ( Deuteronomy 11:18 )

Another example:

"This day the LORD your God commands you to do these statutes and ordinances. You shall therefore be careful to do them with all your heart and with all your soul." ( Deuteronomy 26:16 )

By the way, if I continue, I will be quoting the whole Bible... God doesn't want you to obey Him outwardly. That's hypocrisy, and Christ opposed the hypocrisy of the Pharisees very strongly!

Let's just read carefully:

"Then the Lord said, "Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote," ( Isaiah 29:13 )

AND if I have the very best attitude toward God and others, but I kill people with my lousy driving and spread sickness when I have the flu and cause people to get sick and die (even though I am trying to help them) I am still gonna get condemned and go to hell.

Who said this? Did you ever hear about the Good News of SALVATION?

Wow. You got a really tough God to figure out.

God is tough for those who do not want to be saved from sin...

The SAVIOR God is tough for you... Maybe you prefer a sinner god...

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Do you really think Genesis was written in Greek?

No, Genesis was written in Hebrew. And those who translated it to Greek knew some Greek...

Hey SS... do yo have the source that shows aionian being used to describe specific periods of time? (The Bronze Age, The Dark Age, The Age of Man... that kind of thing?)

I prefer to use the reliable source: The Bible.

And we have seen that aionios ( and not aionian ) was used for "everlasting" or "eternal".

After all, I don't think you believe that the everlasting life is a life for a certain age...

And, by the way, did you notice that in Genesis it is used as "aionioS" So do you think it was about the ages God?

Don't tell me it is "God of ages", because that will show that you need some Greek grammar lessons.

YAQUBOS†

 

[PattyOfurniture]

Dont mind me....just my 3 month check up on the Hatfield-McCoys....looool

 

[YAQUBOS]

OK, back after a bit of RL. Which, as it turns out, was a useful break. Useful because it helped me realize that I was wasting far too much mental energy trying to converse intelligently with someone not interested in doing so.

So, I'm not going to bother any more. Yaqubos, I wish I didn't have to say this, but you're a joke. Either you are just winding the rest of us up, in which case you're a troll and I'm not going to feed you any more, or you actually believe your own gibberish, in which case you are apparently incapable of any kind of logical and rational argument.

"For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;
but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,
but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:22-24 )

In fact, you have even admitted that you can't/won't argue with logic which is why you resort to tedious preaching (direct quote: "If you will repent, it is by hearing the message preached, not by human wisdom"). And if you truly believe what you say, I should just mention that God's going to be really annoyed -- having started off fairly agnostic on this point, I'm now convinced, thanks to you, that baptism *isn't* necessary. Nice going.

Yes, baptism isn't necessary for Salvation. The Bible teaches that clearly. So I am glad that you believe what the Bible says about this, although I wish if you believed that for the good reason.

Yaqubos, I'm done with you. I've clearly stated your logical fallacies, but you haven't addressed a single one (you've repeated your tired arguments and dogma, but haven't actually fought logic with logic). You've quoted the Bible without context,

On the contrary, I always quote the Bible IN the context.

picking on a word or two here and there, but then suddenly bleated about context when someone else does it. And your "context" regarding why God didn't destroy the animals in the flood is that Noah (aka a human) found favor with God -- IOW, you've resorted to out-and-out non-sequiturs, absurdities and falsehoods to cling desperately to your views, even when you can't defend them logically. I'm done with this.

Yes, it is logically impossible for a human to find favor with God. But with God all is possible, and He found the way: GRACE.

No doubt you will continue to bleat on. You will probably claim victory and call me a coward. Go ahead. I care more about the price of cabbages in Suriname than anything you have to say now. Continue defaming me and speculating about my family -- I've now realized that I don't actually give a monkey's.

I never defame you. I respect you, and I don't need to claim vain worldly victory IF your soul is still going to hell.

As the saying goes, discussing anything with Yaqubos is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how well you plan and execute your strategy, the pigeon will just knock over the pieces, cr*p on the board, and fly off claiming victory.

Is that how you describe your incapability before the powerful Word of God?

Yes, I knew from the beginning that human wisdom and human arguments will always fail before the Word of God. Therefore I only preach the Word of God.

So, SS: are you still here? (Your last post suggested you were done with this ****, and fair enough.) I'd like to ask some questions of you (with honest intent, unlike some others). Are you still reading this thread, or should I start another? What about you, KCDAD?

Of course they are reading! The Word of life is in the Bible So people need to hear what the Bible says, even if they don't agree with God.

As it turns out, my minister today actually quoted some honking big Dictionary o' Theology that said something like: no core concept of Christianity has such a divergence of beliefs/definitions [as "salvation"].

Interestingly, he didn't quote the Word of God.

Anyway, a N.B.: Although discussing with me is a waste of time, and yet almost the whole of this reply was addressed to me... Interesting, no?

May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

I am not surprised... I can't two Christians to agree on what sin is.

And if they accept the definition of the Bible they are true Christians.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

How come so many Christians have two hands?

Because their hands are not what can stumble them. It is their fleshly hands that can. I am surprised that you can't see how all real Christians do not have hands and feet. They are TOTALLY dead. They are born of God, new creatures, with new hands and feet.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Didn't you say baptism was necessary for salvation? Salvation from what?

No, I never said that. The Bible clearly teaches that baptism is NOT necessary for Salvation.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

And if they accept the definition of the Bible they are true Christians.

YAQUBOS†

And that is?

 

[KCDAD]

Because their hands are not what can stumble them. It is their fleshly hands that can. I am surprised that you can't see how all real Christians do not have hands and feet. They are TOTALLY dead. They are born of God, new creatures, with new hands and feet.

YAQUBOS†

Do you read what you type?

Does it make sense to you even after you read it?

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

I'm still subscribed and checking in from time to time, Gonna be pretty busy over the next few days but will be online here and there.

Great! I'm gonna throw some questions at you. (Also busy!) Maybe a new thread? Still about salvation/baptism/etc, but this one's getting a bit old, long and dead.

Also, I have to mention this -- announcement of a lecture in the university's broadcast service thingy:

"In June 2007, the Gallup Poll reported that eighty six percent of Americans believe in God, and that sixty nine percent believe in hell. Dr. Morriston will argue that if you believe in God, you probably should not believe in hell -- at least not if you think that God is very good and hell is a very bad place to be. Along the way, he'll be taking a critical look at one popular attempt to explain why a just and loving God would allow many people to spend eternity in hell -- an application of the so-called free will defense to the special case of hell."

I really hope I can make it. If I do, I'll take notes and report back

Oh, and KCDAD, as they say in the Land of the Long White Cloud: kia kaha! (Or, to misquote Kipling: You're a better/braver/more pigheaded!/??? man than I am, Gunga Din!)

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Dont mind me....just my 3 month check up on the Hatfield-McCoys....looool

*wipes spit of keyboard/monitor*

 

[YAQUBOS]

And that is?

That is what I have been saying all the time since the beginning of this thread. You are taking us back to the beginning, as if we didn't talk all that time!! Did you forget that you even opened a new thread to my name for that purpose??

KCDAD, where are you? Wake up, friend

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Do you read what you type?

Does it make sense to you even after you read it?

Yes.

But when you read it, you can't understand because you don't have time to read the Bible and to know God:

"For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.
For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience" ( Colossians 3:3-6 )

I am sure you are surprised to read these things...

By the way, you forgot that I have already quoted Jesus about hell, and He says it is the unquenchable fire. I am still waiting to see where He said that hell is a garbage dump... But, as I told you in the other thread that you opened to my name, you are not so courageous as to defend your false points to the end...

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

"In June 2007, the Gallup Poll reported that eighty six percent of Americans believe in God, and that sixty nine percent believe in hell. Dr. Morriston will argue that if you believe in God, you probably should not believe in hell -- at least not if you think that God is very good and hell is a very bad place to be. Along the way, he'll be taking a critical look at one popular attempt to explain why a just and loving God would allow many people to spend eternity in hell -- an application of the so-called free will defense to the special case of hell."

God is loving, but not loving sin. Therefore He wants to save you from that bad sin.

Listen to Him and repent.

YAQUBOS†