Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[YAQUBOS]

I know that you can interpret the bible with the bible. I do not believe that you are doing it correctly though. Your example which I have snipped for space is bolding certian words. Basically it is saying that many will enter into the gate of destruction, You seem to think this means that they can not be saved. Yet later on we see again in the writings of Paul where he speaks of turning someone over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so the spirit can be saved. So if we use the bible to interpret the bible we do not come away with destruction meaning one can not or will not be saved but we see that in at least one instance the reason for destruction is so the spirit can be saved.

Quote the passage you mentioned from Paul, and let's see what it is talking about.

Yet, Jesus is not talking about delivering anyone to Satan. He is talking about two ways, each leading to a specific place. And we have seen that many are taking the way of destruction.

John the baptist.

Why? I though you were an expert on the bible? Are you saying that you are not familiar with these verses?

I am saying they don't have all the meanings you tried to attach to them.

Which is what I was talking about We are judged by fire [God]

And the judgment of God on sin is eternal hell.

Is it required that I quote passages about the lake of fire? I have given references to what the bible says. An expert such as you should know what I am referring to.

No, sorry, I am not an expert. I want you to quote them. Have a nice time searching for them carefully.

Is God a consuming fire? Does God save us? Read 1 Cor 3 [paraphrased from memory] the work of every man [that means all of us] shall be tried by fire, be it silver and gold or hay and stubble he will gain reward or suffer loss but he himself shall be saved as by fire.

That context doesn't say that anyone will be saved by fire.

Plus, make sure you read carefully to see on what they build their works.

Note EVERY MAN shall be tired and saved. Fire of course is not meant to be taken literally.

See who every man. Quote the context please. I will not do your homework.

Why do you ask such a stupid question. Who says I do not accept salvation? I didn't say that, I didn't hint at it either. I think you just like to try and get under peoples skin. Perhaps it makes you feel good if you can make them angry enough to err and have need to repent?

To be clear what I reject is your opinion.

OK. So you accept the Salvation of God from sin.

I see you did not answer the question. It would have answered yours if you understood it. To obey is good, gold means good. Satan did obey in at least some instance in the story of Job which means that there is at least a sliver of gold even in satan.

The Bible says that Satan is the source of evil. The Bible even calls him the evil one.

But according to you that's gold...

When Satan obeys God, it is not from his heart. Satan is obliged to obey God anyway. All sinners are like that. But they are sinners anyway.

What makes you think I need someone to tell me? I am capable of forming conclusions of my own you know. And yes I did let scripture interpret scripture and explained it to you already yet you do not see.

No, you didn't.

Jesus referred to Peter as satan.

And yet not a child of Satan.

So satan did well in this case and in judgment God will remember this will he not?

And who said that Satan is not outwardly obeying God ALWAYS? And yet, he is in rebellion against God.

Of course you just made that up didin't you?

No. Read the Bible.

I wish if you could only quote the Bible IN CONTEXT, and still defend your dreams...

YAQUBOS†

 

[Soul Searcher]

God says that we are sinners, and that none of us does good.

God says? No. The bible says specifically Paul says and he was quoting [out of context I might add] a passage from the OT which was referring to the Jews of a specific time and thier actions. All of us do good at times, none of us are perfect. I will not even bother to argue this with you as my head already hurts from all your nonsense.

Yes, all things will be made new. Open the context and see about what it is talking.

All things mean all things, or are you saying that the bible doesn;t mean what it actually says.

Yes, there shall be no more suffering. But for whom? Open the context and see.

No more means no more, it also says these things have passed away which means they no longer are. So either the bible means that they no longer exist or it is not beling truthful. You pick,

Yes, no more death and no more tears. But for whom? Open the context and see.

See above answers.

Those who do not repent declare that they are not thirsty and that they don't want the water of life.

Your opinion again, not backed up by anything. It is an open statement saying that anyone who is athrist now perhaps today the man is stubborn and refuses the water but tomorrow is another day. there is no time limit imposed here outside your own opinion.

Yes. And how does that rule out hell??

I already showed you that hell gives up its dead according to the bible but you say it doesn't even though it says exactly that. Do you think that people who are suffering eternal torment are going to be singing Gods praises while weeping and gnahsing thier teeth. I think not.

Yes, you want it or not, you must finally admit that Jesus is LORD! But not everyone who calls Him Lord will be saved.

Really? The context is talking about salvation. Look to me all the ends of the earth and be saved for I am God and there is none us every knee, every tongue.... Clearly he is talking about salavtion and everyone. We also see in the NT that it is his will that all be saved, that he is not willing that even one shall perish and that he works all things according to his will. It is pretty clear when you consider the big picture.

Open the context and see about whom it is talking.

He is talking about every man. I know some people try to say this only means Christains because it was written to a church but by that same logic revelation was written to churches and therefore also does not apply, Jesus preached only to the Jews so his message would not apply as would not the entire OT nor any letter of Paul. Our bibles would be pretty thin.

Let the Scripture interpret the Scripture, and we will see. But till now you told us about your speculations without even quoting the contexts.

I have let scripture interpret scripture in fact I think I may be the one who first used that very term in so doing and no I have not quoted page after page of sctipture. I really don't see the need and these message are to long as is. Besides it is becoming increasing clear that you do not pay much attention to what the bible actually says and rely on your understanding of it instead. Perhaps that is why you do not recoginze words fromt he bible when they appear without verse and chapter numbers.

We have seen what it says.

Yes we have seen that it does not say what you keep saying it does and we have saw it clearly.

We have seen what the Bible says about eternal hell.

Nothing at all. The phrase eternal hell does not appear in the bible, at least not in any translation that I have saw.

Who told you this? If you are ignorant about that, you can just ask.

Who told me what? And what makes you keep asking that ridiculous question. I am not an idiot. I can think for myself. I have read the bible and I know what it says.

Who told you this?

Any future occurances of this question will be deleted and ignored.

Anyway, go discuss this in its place. I already told you that we can't discuss it here.

So you are in charge here? We can't? Not that I really want to honestly I see very little point in discussing anyth8ing with you.

So I conclude that you were not talking about any specific passage of John?

I guess that helps to explain how you concluded that the bible says things which it does not say. Of course I was talking talkign about a specific passage of John forgive me for giving you the benifit of a doubt and thinking that maybe you knew your bible well enough to know what I was talking about. I can now see that this is not the case but that conversation is behind us and I see no need to go back and dig it up.

Good. Thank you.

I have never indicated that it did not.

No, I am not. I quoted Him saying that.

Quoted him from where?
This is what you said

And Jesus clearly says that whoever doesn't believe in Him is ALREADY judged.

I assume you were referring to John, Ironically the same part I was referring to which you did not recognize.. note verse 19

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

So I will give you the benifit of a doubt and assume that you have some translation that uses the word judged rather than condemned here, but it really doesn't change anything in the overall picture because as I said before the one who does not believe today may believe tomorrow and I am pretty sure that you are not trying to tell me that people can not come to believe later and not end up in this eternal hell you speak of.

I was not talking about a person who doesn't believe TODAY. I was talking about a person who does not believe in the Son of God. That person is ALREADY judged.

But already means today so if today you do not believe you are already judged but tomorrow you do believe then that judgment was wrong, resended, Does God repent, change his mind or do you just ignore these things that throw wrenches into your concepts?

We have already seen that hell will not give up the dead. That's Hades.

Hades=Hell sorry you loose.

And I don't need to explain the same thing again and again, because you are not reading carefully.

Tell me what bible is the bible. You said that the bibel does not say hell will give up its dead. My bible says it will. I guess your word of God is better than my word of God so won;t you tell us what is the true word of God since you seem to know so much.

The Bible says that you will go to eternal hell if you don't repent. That has nothing to do with what you think about me.

No the bible does not say that. The phrase eternal hell does not exist at all. However Jesus does say [according to the bible] that if you forgive others you will be forgiven. He also says that the merciful shall receive mercy.

The Bible is clear about that.

Apparently not. You have already given one interpretation of repent that was incorrect related to God and you keep calling for people to repent apparently not knowing what it actually means.

Nop. We have seen that you are talking about Hades.

I've got news for you of all the hell references in the bible most of them are talking about hades or sheol which is for all intents and purposes that same thing. The error comes when referring to Gehenna as hell and especially when referring to the lake of fire as hell. Now I will grant you that the meaning of the word hell nowadays bears little resemblance to what it meant then but the bible was written then. Perhaps I shoudl also note that the word hell does not even occur in some of the more modern bibles.

No, I can't. But the Bible says that ALL people EVERYWHERE should repent.

If you insist on using this word in every post explain to us what you mean when you use it.

I will quote you, but in this context: "You seem to think that you can see others' hearts and know that others have no clue what they are talking about."

I do not claim to see others hearts. I do not try and tell others that they have not repented. I do see you doing this to all posters in this thread. Normally I would give the benifit of a doubt but in your case it is a definite pattern of behaviour that you continue to repeat even after being told by more than one person on more than one occasion that it is not appreciated yet you continue.

remainder deleted

 

[Soul Searcher]

You see what kind of references you give? This is the kind of links you wanted to give me about the Greek.

References? That was a reference and I'll admit not a real good one but I figured you probably wouldn't read it and if you did you would probably just brush it off no matter what it said. It would appear that I was correct. I actually started to quote several verses to prove the point but I can see that you are not willing to listen so I figure why waste any more of my time.

To be continued...

Don't bother.. I am done trying to converse with you. Perhaps someday i will try again maybe then you will have saw some light, until then

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;43626941]Who said that the rebellion is only an attitude? It shows itself in behavior.

Maybe yes maybe no... if I have a rebellious attitude but obey simply to stay out of trouble... am I a sinner? If I disobey through a mistake but don't have a rebellious attitude... am I a sinner?

From your will.

Where did I get my will? Was I born with it? Was I born with my attitude?

I am not comparing the physical maturity of your son to the physical maturity of Adam. I am saying Adam had free and intelligent will. He was not like a baby who cannot decide.

How could he have? Who taught it to him? He didn't have any parents. He didn't have anyone. He was created an adult. Where did his intelligence and will and attitudes come from? They certainly didn't come from experience?

Adam decided that by his free will. Nobody forced him to have that attitude. A free creature.

Horsehockey!

This shows how much you are serious...

and you are flip and glib...

God made Adam without sin. Adam sinned, and we are born of him. We have his nature.

Way to quote the dogma... Unfortunately you are unscriptural in several ways, the first being adam is not a name it is the word of mankind.

Stillborn babies cannot repent. I asked you why, but you didn't answer me yet. When you answer me, then I will tell you the rest of the story.

I answered you , liar, you refused to respond. They can not lie and change their minds... like God can. That is the biblical example of repentance.

Please stop quoting Jesus, since you neither know him nor his teachings... you are an embarrassment.

 

[YAQUBOS]

God says? No. The bible says specifically Paul says and he was quoting [out of context I might add] a passage from the OT which was referring to the Jews of a specific time and thier actions. All of us do good at times, none of us are perfect. I will not even bother to argue this with you as my head already hurts from all your nonsense.

I was not even talking about only one verse when I said that God says that all humans are sinners.

As you can't oppose God's Word, then why bother in the first place?

All things mean all things, or are you saying that the bible doesn;t mean what it actually says.

The Bible actually means what it actually says in the context. And the context is talking about those all things. Please, quote the context, and let's see what are those things.

If I say all things in my house are beautiful, this doesn't mean that all things in the universe are beautiful. Let's see what are those all things.

No more means no more, it also says these things have passed away which means they no longer are. So either the bible means that they no longer exist or it is not beling truthful. You pick,

No more for whom? Quote the context, and let's see if the Bible is not clear.

See above answers.

See above answers.

Your opinion again, not backed up by anything.

I only told you what the Bible says.

It is an open statement saying that anyone who is athrist now perhaps today the man is stubborn and refuses the water but tomorrow is another day. there is no time limit imposed here outside your own opinion.

Yes, if someone who doesn't feel thirsty today feels thirsty tomorrow, he will come and take that free water. But this doesn't mean that there is no time limit, because the Bible clearly says:

"And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain--
for He says, "AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU." Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"--" ( 2 Corinthians 6:1-2 )

I already showed you that hell gives up its dead according to the bible but you say it doesn't even though it says exactly that. Do you think that people who are suffering eternal torment are going to be singing Gods praises while weeping and gnahsing thier teeth. I think not.

You only quoted the Bible saying that Hades will give up its dead to be judged. I don't see any text saying that hell will give up its dead, and I don't see any text saying that those dead will not be judged to the lake of fire ( hell ) .

Really? The context is talking about salvation.

Quote the context and let's see if it does. I can't rely on your word.

Look to me all the ends of the earth and be saved for I am God and there is none us every knee, every tongue.... Clearly he is talking about salavtion and everyone.

N.B.: You still didn't quote the context. And yet, you have quoted God saying that if people want to be saved, they must LOOK TO HIM. Thank you for mentioning that clearly.

So if you don't look to Him, you won't be saved.

We also see in the NT that it is his will that all be saved, that he is not willing that even one shall perish and that he works all things according to his will.

Yes. God's Will is that no one perish, but what? You really don't like the context, do you? Let's quote the context to see what His WILL is:

"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." ( 2 Peter 3:9 )

So He wants all to come to repentance. He doesn't want them to come to repentance against their will, therefore He is patient, waiting that you may repent.

It is pretty clear when you consider the big picture.

We have seen how much you like the big picture... You like it so much that you only quote parts of verses and build on it your dreams.

He is talking about every man. I know some people try to say this only means Christains because it was written to a church but by that same logic revelation was written to churches and therefore also does not apply, Jesus preached only to the Jews so his message would not apply as would not the entire OT nor any letter of Paul. Our bibles would be pretty thin.

Quote the context and let's see about whom it is talking. Simple.

I have let scripture interpret scripture in fact I think I may be the one who first used that very term in so doing and no I have not quoted page after page of sctipture. I really don't see the need and these message are to long as is. Besides it is becoming increasing clear that you do not pay much attention to what the bible actually says and rely on your understanding of it instead. Perhaps that is why you do not recoginze words fromt he bible when they appear without verse and chapter numbers.

Quote the context first, then we will see what you are talking about.

Yes we have seen that it does not say what you keep saying it does and we have saw it clearly.

The replies are open to everyone to read. All can see how much clear is the Bible about all that.

To be continued...

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Nothing at all. The phrase eternal hell does not appear in the bible, at least not in any translation that I have saw.

We have seen that it does.

Who told me what? And what makes you keep asking that ridiculous question. I am not an idiot. I can think for myself. I have read the bible and I know what it says.

OK. You are free to stay in your ignorance and not ask humbly.

Any future occurances of this question will be deleted and ignored.

So you are in charge here? We can't? Not that I really want to honestly I see very little point in discussing anyth8ing with you.

If you want to discuss it, then fine. But I guess that we then won't discuss the topic of this thread.

I guess that helps to explain how you concluded that the bible says things which it does not say. Of course I was talking talkign about a specific passage of John forgive me for giving you the benifit of a doubt and thinking that maybe you knew your bible well enough to know what I was talking about. I can now see that this is not the case but that conversation is behind us and I see no need to go back and dig it up.

There is no such passage saying that there is no eternal hell. And I challenge you to quote the passage you were talking about.

I have never indicated that it did not.

Quoted him from where?
This is what you said

I assume you were referring to John, Ironically the same part I was referring to which you did not recognize.. note verse 19

Yes, that's the reason why you are condemned: You choose darkness rather than light.

You really don't know the importance of a context.

So I will give you the benifit of a doubt and assume that you have some translation that uses the word judged rather than condemned here, but it really doesn't change anything in the overall picture because as I said before the one who does not believe today may believe tomorrow and I am pretty sure that you are not trying to tell me that people can not come to believe later and not end up in this eternal hell you speak of.

Yes, people who do not believe now may repent later and come to faith. So repent and come to faith That's what I am telling you all the time. If you refuse to repent, you will go to eternal hell.

But already means today so if today you do not believe you are already judged but tomorrow you do believe then that judgment was wrong, resended, Does God repent, change his mind or do you just ignore these things that throw wrenches into your concepts?

Already doesn't mean today, but it means already in the past. Those who will not believe, are already judged.

Hades=Hell sorry you loose.

Hades = Hades. YOU lose.
Gehenna = Hell.

Tell me what bible is the bible.

The only Bible available.

You said that the bibel does not say hell will give up its dead. My bible says it will.

That particular TRANSLATION of the Bible says it will. The original text doesn't say that gehenna will give up the dead. It says Hades will give up the dead. And, after all, I don't see why we are discussing this, as long as those dead that Hades will give up will be judged and not saved.

I guess your word of God is better than my word of God so won;t you tell us what is the true word of God since you seem to know so much.

The Bible is the Word of God.

No the bible does not say that.

We have read it saying that.

The phrase eternal hell does not exist at all.

The meaning eternal hell exists clearly.

However Jesus does say [according to the bible] that if you forgive others you will be forgiven. He also says that the merciful shall receive mercy.

Yes. So what does that mean? Does that mean that you don't need to repent and be mercful?

Apparently not. You have already given one interpretation of repent that was incorrect related to God and you keep calling for people to repent apparently not knowing what it actually means.

The Bible is clear about what repentance means.

I've got news for you of all the hell references in the bible most of them are talking about hades or sheol which is for all intents and purposes that same thing. The error comes when referring to Gehenna as hell and especially when referring to the lake of fire as hell. Now I will grant you that the meaning of the word hell nowadays bears little resemblance to what it meant then but the bible was written then. Perhaps I shoudl also note that the word hell does not even occur in some of the more modern bibles.

You mean TRANSLATIONS of the Bible.

If you insist on using this word in every post explain to us what you mean when you use it.

First, you need to admit that the Bible actually says that all humans everywhere should repent, and that you are one of those humans. Only then will you be ready to hear what repentance means.

I do not claim to see others hearts.

And yet you said I have no clue what I am talking about... How did you know that?

I do not try and tell others that they have not repented.

Me, too. I only tell them what the Bible says. But if their consciences bother them when they hear that, then this is another problem...

I do see you doing this to all posters in this thread. Normally I would give the benifit of a doubt but in your case it is a definite pattern of behaviour that you continue to repeat even after being told by more than one person on more than one occasion that it is not appreciated yet you continue.

I continue to preach the FULL Word of God. The Word of God is for ALL men, whether they think they repented or not.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

References? That was a reference and I'll admit not a real good one but I figured you probably wouldn't read it and if you did you would probably just brush it off no matter what it said. It would appear that I was correct. I actually started to quote several verses to prove the point but I can see that you are not willing to listen so I figure why waste any more of my time.

We have seen that hell is eternal. The Bible clearly says that. So why bother trying to understand your dreams, as they don't have any biblical background?

Don't bother.. I am done trying to converse with you. Perhaps someday i will try again maybe then you will have saw some light, until then

First a N.B.: Sin is not light.

I knew that you can't oppose the powerful Word of God. So I am not surprised that you give up again, just as you did before.

As for me, I will continue preaching the FULL Word of God as long as the Lord wants to use me in these forums.

God be with you!

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Maybe yes maybe no... if I have a rebellious attitude but obey simply to stay out of trouble... am I a sinner?

Yes. And your behavior is called HYPOCRISY, which is also a sin.

If I disobey through a mistake but don't have a rebellious attitude... am I a sinner?

You will know a tree by its fruit.

Where did I get my will? Was I born with it? Was I born with my attitude?

Yes, you were born a sinner, but not created in Adam as a sinner.

How could he have? Who taught it to him? He didn't have any parents. He didn't have anyone. He was created an adult. Where did his intelligence and will and attitudes come from? They certainly didn't come from experience?

Adam had a FREE WILL. Adam could choose whatever he wanted. Nobody was responsible of what he chooses.

Horsehockey!



and you are flip and glib...



Way to quote the dogma... Unfortunately you are unscriptural in several ways, the first being adam is not a name it is the word of mankind.

Adam is the name of the first man.

I answered you , liar, you refused to respond.

You didn't answer me yet, dear.

They can not lie and change their minds...

No, the first time you mentioned this, you mentioned it in the form of a question. As you are answering now, then I can answer you.

Well, your answer is wrong, because babies can change their minds.

So maybe you think about the right answer before asking others for right answers.

like God can. That is the biblical example of repentance.

Yes. So why can't babies change their mind TO DO GOOD?

Please stop quoting Jesus, since you neither know him nor his teachings... you are an embarrassment.

I see how much it is bothering you that I am quoting the Lord Jesus Christ, my Savior...

May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Hades = Hades. YOU lose.
Jehenna = Hell.

You are so funny!!!!

You can't even the Greek right! Gehenna is The Valley of Ben Hinnom.

 

[KCDAD]

Yes. So why can't babies change their mind TO DO GOOD?

Because babies don't have the mental capacity or ability to do so.
They can't make up their mind let alone change them. They are BABIES!!!!!!

Sinful, going to hell if they don't repent and get baptized, babies!

 

[KCDAD]

Yes. And your behavior is called HYPOCRISY, which is also a sin.

My good behavior is a sin because I have a rebellious attitude... man, you just can't win in your fantasy world can you?

 

[YAQUBOS]

You are so funny!!!!

You can't even the Greek right! Gehenna is The Valley of Ben Hinnom.

Yes, Gehenna. And I am not talking about that valley that you mentioned, but about the word that God used for hell.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Because babies don't have the mental capacity or ability to do so.
They can't make up their mind let alone change them. They are BABIES!!!!!!

Sinful, going to hell if they don't repent and get baptized, babies!

You contradicted yourself: First you said they can't make up their mind, then you said they will go to hell if they don't repent and get baptized.

Make up your mind! Which one? Can they make up their mind and repent, or they can't?

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

My good behavior is a sin because I have a rebellious attitude... man, you just can't win in your fantasy world can you?

When discussing something, a short memory makes a lot of trouble...

You seem to have a very short memory. I have experienced this many times.

I remind you what you said:

Maybe yes maybe no... if I have a rebellious attitude but obey simply to stay out of trouble... am I a sinner?

And I just answered THAT. Yes, when you don't obey from your heart, and you just show an outward obedience only to stay out of trouble, that's called HYPOCRISY, and it's a sin.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Now some passages about eternal life and eternal hell...

First, did you know that God is called the Everlasting God? "Everlasting" is the Greek "aionion". Let me put it in Greek from now on, as we have the possibility to do that here. So "aionios" is "αιωνιος".

The Bible says:

"Abraham planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba, and there he called on the name of the LORD, the Everlasting ( Greek: αιωνιος ) God." ( Genesis 21:33 )

Eternal life
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal ( Greek: αιωνιο&#957 life." ( John 3:16 )

Eternal hell
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal ( Greek: αιωνιον ) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels" ( Matthew 25:41 )

To be continued, if the Lord wills and we live.

Grace to you!

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Yes, Gehenna. And I am not talking about that valley that you mentioned, but about the word that God used for hell.

YAQUBOS†

Jesus was talking about the garbage dump! It was a figure of speech, like "the boogie man" or "cold as hell".

 

[KCDAD]

You contradicted yourself: First you said they can't make up their mind, then you said they will go to hell if they don't repent and get baptized.

Make up your mind! Which one? Can they make up their mind and repent, or they can't?

YAQUBOS†

It was supposed to be a parody of your nonsense.... you are the one condemning them to hell... not me.

 

[KCDAD]

When discussing something, a short memory makes a lot of trouble...

You seem to have a very short memory. I have experienced this many times.

I remind you what you said:



And I just answered THAT. Yes, when you don't obey from your heart, and you just show an outward obedience only to stay out of trouble, that's called HYPOCRISY, and it's a sin.

YAQUBOS†

So if I do the right thing... if I never hurt anyone or do anything wrong...if I obey ALL the law... I will still be condemned because my attitude isn't right?

AND if I have the very best attitude toward God and others, but I kill people with my lousy driving and spread sickness when I have the flu and cause people to get sick and die (even though I am trying to help them) I am still gonna get condemned and go to hell.

Wow. You got a really tough God to figure out.

 

[KCDAD]

The Bible says:

"Abraham planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba, and there he called on the name of the LORD, the Everlasting ( Greek: αιωνιος ) God." ( Genesis 21:33 )

Do you really think Genesis was written in Greek?

Hey SS... do yo have the source that shows aionian being used to describe specific periods of time? (The Bronze Age, The Dark Age, The Age of Man... that kind of thing?)

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

OK, back after a bit of RL. Which, as it turns out, was a useful break. Useful because it helped me realize that I was wasting far too much mental energy trying to converse intelligently with someone not interested in doing so.

So, I'm not going to bother any more. Yaqubos, I wish I didn't have to say this, but you're a joke. Either you are just winding the rest of us up, in which case you're a troll and I'm not going to feed you any more, or you actually believe your own gibberish, in which case you are apparently incapable of any kind of logical and rational argument. In fact, you have even admitted that you can't/won't argue with logic which is why you resort to tedious preaching (direct quote: "If you will repent, it is by hearing the message preached, not by human wisdom"). And if you truly believe what you say, I should just mention that God's going to be really annoyed -- having started off fairly agnostic on this point, I'm now convinced, thanks to you, that baptism *isn't* necessary. Nice going.

Yaqubos, I'm done with you. I've clearly stated your logical fallacies, but you haven't addressed a single one (you've repeated your tired arguments and dogma, but haven't actually fought logic with logic). You've quoted the Bible without context, picking on a word or two here and there, but then suddenly bleated about context when someone else does it. And your "context" regarding why God didn't destroy the animals in the flood is that Noah (aka a human) found favor with God -- IOW, you've resorted to out-and-out non-sequiturs, absurdities and falsehoods to cling desperately to your views, even when you can't defend them logically. I'm done with this.

No doubt you will continue to bleat on. You will probably claim victory and call me a coward. Go ahead. I care more about the price of cabbages in Suriname than anything you have to say now. Continue defaming me and speculating about my family -- I've now realized that I don't actually give a monkey's.

As the saying goes, discussing anything with Yaqubos is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how well you plan and execute your strategy, the pigeon will just knock over the pieces, cr*p on the board, and fly off claiming victory.

What a waste of my time. And particularly galling is that I've spent that time for no purpose, when I could have been discussing the issue with someone intelligent and open-minded, like, say KCDAD and SS (I don't think anyone else has stuck around -- I wonder why... I guess they're smarter than we for knowing in advance that it was a waste of time).

So, SS: are you still here? (Your last post suggested you were done with this ****, and fair enough.) I'd like to ask some questions of you (with honest intent, unlike some others). Are you still reading this thread, or should I start another? What about you, KCDAD?

As it turns out, my minister today actually quoted some honking big Dictionary o' Theology that said something like: no core concept of Christianity has such a divergence of beliefs/definitions [as "salvation"].