Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[KCDAD]

BLESS: to speak well of, i.e. (religiously) to bless (thank or invoke a benediction upon, prosper):--bless, praise.

See, if you understood what the word meant, I wouldn't mind so much... you just wrote for God to speak well of me... richly. That is not what you meant.. I realize that... yet, nonetheless that is what modern fundamentalist Christianity has done to the Bible... bless now means "GET STUFF".

Again, I need nothing of stuff. God does not need to be exhorted to speak well of me. So save your breath.

 

[YAQUBOS]

But the bible says differently..

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Specially concentrate on what you quoted in the last place. It says: “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” ( 1 Peter 3:21 )

So from this passage, and also from the other passages that you quoted, it is clear that baptism is a necessary part of Salvation. But the Bible NEVER says that baptism is necessary FOR Salvation. Nobody can be saved without receiving what baptism presents to him, i.e. the appeal to God for a good conscience, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. But this doesn’t mean that a person cannot receive that good conscience and the power of Christ’s Resurrection unless he receives the seal of that Faith which is baptism. God says that Salvation is by faith alone, as we have already seen; so the seal of that faith does not contribute in that Salvation, but it is part of that Salvation.

Being born agains starts with our repentance AND baptism.

No. Cornelius was born again before he was baptized.

Question: How were the Old Testament saints born again? By being baptized?

Baptism is the starting of a new life of being a christian.

No, the new birth is the starting of a new life of being a Christian. Baptism only declares you as being Christian. And this is very clear: Just as a baby cannot begin to live without first being born, so nobody can begin a new life without being born again, and yet many are baptized without being born again and they continue to walk in the old way of life and in unrighteousness.

.Notice Peter says be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU. He didn't say, "only part of your family", "or only you"..

Notice that Peter said this to those who asked him what to do.

"Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16).


Now, would would we hinder our children from baptism??

This thread is not about infant baptism.

In the New Testament we read that

Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that "She was baptized, with her household" (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that "the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family" (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, "I did baptize also the household of Stephanas" (1 Cor. 1:16).


The present Catholic attitude accords perfectly with early Christian practices.

The present Roman Catholic attitude is in direct opposition to the biblical practice.

But the present Catholic attitude accords with the biblical practice.

Origen, for instance, wrote in the third century that "according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants" (Holilies on Leviticus, 8:

3:11 [A.D. 244]). The Council of Carthage, in 253, condemned the opinion that baptism should be withheld from infants until the eighth day after birth. Later, Augustine taught, "The custom of MotherChurch in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned . . . nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic" (Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39

[A.D. 408]).

Infant baptism concerns another threat.

Withholding baptism from your children is done for no reason. Rather is was created by the heretics and schismatics.. In a christian family all should be baptized for the unity of their faith. We see Paul baptizing whole familys in Acts. The withholding of infant baptism was created by evangelicals only because of their opposition to the Catholic Church..

Infant baptism does not prove that baptism saves. So mentioning infant baptism in this thread does not contribute to the topic.

Even adults who are baptized are not always saved. Example: Simon the magician – see Acts 8.

May the Lord bless you richly!

In Christ’s Love,
YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Now we all know the bible VERILY condemns faith alone in James. Also martin Luther forged "Alone" at the end of that verse..

The Bible never condemns faith alone in James. It condemns “DEAD faith alone” in James. Some taught that head-knowledge or head-faith can save. James is refuting that. But he is not refuting true living faith alone, because he himself says that a faith that works is a living faith that saves without the contribution of the works of the flesh.

And by the way: James is not talking about Justification before GOD, but about justification before men.

. Read James

2:14 carefully: "What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?"

Yes, read it CAREFULLY. What does it say? It says “if a man says he has faith”. He is talking about false claim.

James is dealing with the problem of those who claim faith but who don’t show it by their works.

Exactly. So works SHOW real faith.

In verse 17 James says this kind of faith, "if it has no works, is dead.

So James refutes DEAD faith alone, and not living faith alone.

James 2:24. There the inspired apostle denies that justification is from faith alone. Let me quote it: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

1. We already saw that James is refuting DEAD faith alone.

2. James says that man is justified by works. He does not say that man is justified by faith AND works. So do you think that you can be justified by works? A hint: James is talking about justification before MEN. “show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” ( James 2:18 ) Show whom? Humans.

Why is sola fide so supported when it is clearly against scripture is James?

Sola Fide is the biblical truth about Justification before God. Now, if you want to talk about justification before men, we can open another thread about that, and then we will quote James.

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).

This is the anathema of those who do not know the Gospel of Grace.

James:

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only

Yes, dead faith alone is a heretical teaching.
And yes, man is not justified before men by a claim of faith alone, because that faith, being alone, is a dead faith. Real living faith works through love.

But our topic is not about how we can be justified before men. Our topic is about how we can be saved, and if that Salvation depends from baptism. Well, the Bible says that Salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone, WITHOUT works, and that works come as a RESULT or FRUIT of that Salvation which is by faith alone:

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” ( Ephesians 2:8-10 )

In summary: Salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, not as a result of works, but FOR good works.

May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

I think it is easy to reconcile. Faith is not belief. (The scriptures are clear about that.) Belief is in your head. Faith is action. Faith is choosing to do something because of what you believe. So James can rightly say faith without works is dead... it is not faith. Faith must be doing something or it is just belief... the whole problem with trying ot glean this from the Greek is that their is only one word in Greek PISTIS which is translated into almost everything: Faith Belief, Confidence, Trust...
G4102 pistis pis'-tis

from G3982;

persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Let me go with you step by step to show you your error:

Show me a passage in the New Testament in which pistis is translated as “confidence”.

Thank you.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

BLESS: to speak well of, i.e. (religiously) to bless (thank or invoke a benediction upon, prosper):--bless, praise.

See, if you understood what the word meant, I wouldn't mind so much... you just wrote for God to speak well of me... richly. That is not what you meant.. I realize that... yet, nonetheless that is what modern fundamentalist Christianity has done to the Bible... bless now means "GET STUFF".

Again, I need nothing of stuff. God does not need to be exhorted to speak well of me. So save your breath.

No, I really meant to ask God to bless you richly!

"Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying, 'Thus you shall bless the sons of Israel. You shall say to them:
The LORD bless you, and keep you;
The LORD make His face shine on you,
And be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance on you,
And give you peace.'" ( Numbers 6:23-26 )

I meant all this.

May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

No, I really meant to ask God to bless you richly!

"Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying, 'Thus you shall bless the sons of Israel. You shall say to them:
The LORD bless you, and keep you;
The LORD make His face shine on you,
And be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance on you,
And give you peace.'" ( Numbers 6:23-26 )

I meant all this.

May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

Well then, I am just sure if God wasn't planning on it before, He will now.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Well then, I am just sure if God wasn't planning on it before, He will now.

You need to learn how to respect God.

YAQUBOS†

 

[Revelation1217]

No Baptism is not necessary to be saved.

Instead of focusing on such obvious questions, you should be focusing on the horrible judgments that are about to hit the earth:

http://www.jewishprophet.com/End%20Time%20Messenger/Warning.htm

 

[KCDAD]

No Baptism is not necessary to be saved.

Instead of focusing on such obvious questions, you should be focusing on the horrible judgments that are about to hit the earth:

http://www.jewishprophet.com/End%20Time%20Messenger/Warning.htm

Oy vey

 

[Soul Searcher]

I've got a 100% accuracy rate also and it is over 47 years and counting, of course there have been only a very small number of predictions that can be shown to have came true and only if you believe that I actually made them but it is not something I would go around crowing about.

What I have not seen is any evidence that the supposed prophet has made even one accurate prediction much less been doing it for 32 years without a miss. Me thinks someone is being duped especially so when I see the money racket he is into.

 

[KCDAD]

You need to learn how to respect God.

YAQUBOS†

What you mean, of course, is respect for your beliefs. I have none.

 

[YAQUBOS]

What you mean, of course, is respect for your beliefs. I have none.

No, I mean what I said: You need to learn how to respect God.

[Staff Edit]

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

No, I mean what I said: You need to learn how to respect God.

[Staff Edit]

YAQUBOS†

I have enough of your nonsense, and your blasphemy...
bye bye

 

[YAQUBOS]

"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?" ( Ezekiel 18:25 )

Those who do not want to repent call the Way of the Lord "nonsense" and "blasphemy" because the Light of the Lord shows their sins.

But that doesn't change the fact that all sinners deserve eternal hell.

Please, listen to God and don't go to hell.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?" ( Ezekiel 18:25 )

Those who do not want to repent call the Way of the Lord "nonsense" and "blasphemy" because the Light of the Lord shows their sins.

But that doesn't change the fact that all sinners deserve eternal hell.

Please, listen to God and don't go to hell.

YAQUBOS†

All of God's perfect creation deserves hell, God's other perfect creation...
Yeah yeah yeah... blow it out your pipe.

 

[YAQUBOS]

All of God's perfect creation deserves hell, God's other perfect creation...
Yeah yeah yeah... blow it out your pipe.

God created humans perfect. But they chose sin and were separated from God by their sins. The judgment of God on sin is eternal hell. Repent, and don't go to hell.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

God created humans perfect. But they chose sin and were separated from God by their sins. The judgment of God on sin is eternal hell. Repent, and don't go to hell.

YAQUBOS†

Perfect yet flawed... awesome theology!!!!!

So... did God make hell before the garden of eden and the apple tree incident or afterwards?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Perfect yet flawed... awesome theology!!!!!

Show me where I ever said perfect yet flawed. I said humans were created perfect, and they freely chose not to be perfect by choosing to sin.

N.B.: Perfect doesn't mean being incapable to be imperfect.

So... did God make hell before the garden of eden and the apple tree incident or afterwards?

First, there is not an apple tree in that "incident". So what if you consider reading the Word of God carefully, because you need to know God in the right manner.

Second, hell was created during the six days of creation. It was not a place of separation from God until Satan sinned. Hell was originally prepared for Satan and his demons. Now, anyone who chooses to continue in sin and not repent, is choosing to go to hell, too.

So, please, don't go to hell. Whether hell was created before Eden's incident or after that, this will not change the fact that if you don't repent you are going there to stay forever in the eternal torment. Then regretting will not help in anything.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Show me where I ever said perfect yet flawed. I said humans were created perfect, and they freely chose not to be perfect by choosing to sin.

N.B.: Perfect doesn't mean being incapable to be imperfect.



First, there is not an apple tree in that "incident". So what if you consider reading the Word of God carefully, because you need to know God in the right manner.

Second, hell was created during the six days of creation. It was not a place of separation from God until Satan sinned. Hell was originally prepared for Satan and his demons. Now, anyone who chooses to continue in sin and not repent, is choosing to go to hell, too.

So, please, don't go to hell. Whether hell was created before Eden's incident or after that, this will not change the fact that if you don't repent you are going there to stay forever in the eternal torment. Then regretting will not help in anything.

YAQUBOS†

If they can choose incorrectly, if they can fall, fail, sin, make mistakes, they are not perfect and neither is your god who created them that way. On the other hand, if God is perfect, then so is the creation... make sense?
"Perfect doesn't mean being incapable to be imperfect"

On what planet do you live? What does perfect mean? "Capable of being imperfect?"

Hell was created before mankind... ok... as a place for satan and his demons... ok... who created satan? Which incompetant creator put that guy together? And why can't God control him?

Hell was created BEFORE satan and his demons rebelled? Wow. No wonder the rest of your theology is so confusing.

 

[YAQUBOS]

If they can choose incorrectly, if they can fall, fail, sin, make mistakes, they are not perfect and neither is your god who created them that way. On the other hand, if God is perfect, then so is the creation... make sense?

Yes, they CAN choose the wrong or bad thing. And if they are not perfect, then they cannot choose anything. If they are sinners, then they sin as slaves to sin, and they cannot choose to be perfect.

So what you said does not make sense at all, because I didn't say that they were obliged to choose sin, but that they CAN choose to sin.

"Perfect doesn't mean being incapable to be imperfect"

On what planet do you live? What does perfect mean? "Capable of being imperfect?"

Perfect means perfect If Adam and Eve were not perfect, then they were not free to choose.

Hell was created before mankind... ok... as a place for satan and his demons... ok... who created satan? Which incompetant creator put that guy together? And why can't God control him?

1. Yes, hell was created in the six days of creation. Where is the problem? Do you have any objection?

2. God created Lucifer. God didn't make him Satan; he chose to be Satan by his free choice.

3. God is competent. That's why I always call you to begin to respect God or else you are going to hell, even if you are called a Christian. It is not enough to be a professing Christian, but you need to repent.

4. And who told you that God is not controling Satan?

Hell was created BEFORE satan and his demons rebelled? Wow. No wonder the rest of your theology is so confusing.

Please, explain where is the confusion.

By the way: What does all this have to do with the necessity of baptism? Repentance is related to baptism. I told you to repent, or else you will go to hell. If you have any problem with the biblical teaching about hell, then you can open a thread about that.

YAQUBOS†