I know I posted this on the other board, but there is a different crowd here, and I was wondering what you think on this. I am quite confused and not sure what to think on this issue, because both sides have equally good arguments. So, is baptism necessary to be saved, and if you are not God will deal with you accordingly and send you to hell? Or is it not a requirement, and God will not send you to hell, but is just a good thing to do?
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Is baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Thread starter Galadriel
- Start date
We are instructed in the Word to partake in baptism. But, If one is saved and has not gotten baptised in water then they will still go to heaven when they die. Baptism is not a requirment for salvation, but if you know that the world tells you to do something and you don't do it , then you are disobeying God. And He tells us to partake in baptism as an outward sign of the inner change that He has made in us when we are saved.
So I would focus on telling people how to be saved and then tell them to be baptised. And if a christain is not baptised I would tell them they should get baptised because thats what the Word tells us to do.
I got baptised like 4 years after I got saved because I realized I was suposed to and never did. Now I believe that if I had died before I had gotten baptized in water I would have went to heaven.
So I would focus on telling people how to be saved and then tell them to be baptised. And if a christain is not baptised I would tell them they should get baptised because thats what the Word tells us to do.
I got baptised like 4 years after I got saved because I realized I was suposed to and never did. Now I believe that if I had died before I had gotten baptized in water I would have went to heaven.
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I studied the Baptism issue and wanted to respond to it.
Someone needs to explain to me that if Baptism saves then how did the Ethiopian Eunich receive the spirit before being baptized in Acts 10:41??? Especially when Acts 10:43 says "..that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16). What this verse doesn't say is "whosoever does not get baptised will be condemned" but it does say,"whoever does not believe will be condemned".
Jesus referred to baptism as a work of righteousness (Matt. 3:15). It is 'not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us." (Titus 3:5)-Dr. Norman Geisler points this out and I haven't really heard any one refute it. I've only heard people ignore it.
If baptism saves then Paul committed blasphemy because the Bible says: For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel-not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power (1 Corinthians 1:17).
This verse teaches that the Gospel saves and it separates Baptism from the gospel.
Paul here draws a distinction between baptism and the gospel. And since it is the gospel that saves (1 Corinthians 15:1,2), baptism is clearly not necessary to attain salvation-Dr. Norman Geisler, Dr. Ron Rhodes, etc.
Acts 2:38 may be translated,"Be baptized because of the remission of sins"-Dr. Charles Ryrie Acts 2:38 uses a causual resultant. Do you take an aspirin "for" (to get) a headache? Or do you take an aspirin as a result of a headache?
Note: the Greek preposition ("eis"-"for") in Acts 2:38 can actually have the meaning "because of" as it does in Matt. 12:41.
Another point I want to make is I Peter 3:21
"The like *figure* whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."-I Peter 3:21
There are two things. (1) It plainly says that Baptism saves as an appeal towards God which is what faith is but it says that Baptism doesn't wash your sins of the flesh away. Do you know why? Baptism is a picture of what has already happened. If you put Baptism in reverse order of salvation then salvation is a work.
(2) I looked up the word "figure" and it means a representation, counterpart or like figure. Cameras weren't invented in the time of Christ so they didn't have the word "Picture". Pictures don't create salvation. Pictures only capture what has happened. "The like figure" of "Baptism" is a picture and not the cause of salvation.
Baptism is a picture of what Christ has done for us. The like figure of what baptism represents (Christ's judgment for our sins) is what actually saves us.
Jude's example to contend for the faith is to remember those who were destroyed by God who believed not and doesn't mention baptism.
"That they al might be ****** who believed not the truth.." (II Thess. 2:12) talks about belief is a requirement for salvation and not baptism.
The Bible speaks of the word of God (1 Peter 1:23; James 1:18.21; Romans 10:17) as the instrument used by God in regeneration, not baptism.
Dr. Gleason Archer points out that works don't save and even if they could, God says that there is none good but God so our works would be evil.-Matthew 19:17. And Rhodes points out that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. The fact that our sins are as filthy rags and that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, there is nothing we can do apart from jesus Christ's finished work on the cross. Since Jesus referred to Baptism as a work of righteousness, I know that it isn't according to works of righteousness that we have done but according to His mercy He has saved us (Titus 3:5)
And I will interpret the hard to understand verses in the Bible by the clear verses:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."-John 3:16
"As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12)
"...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God." John 1:13
"Verily, Verily I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, *Hath* everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."John 5:24
It doesn't say,'might have' or 'could have'.. It says,"*hath*" everlasting life.
Those are clear verses to me.
There are other verses which say the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from sin.
--------------------
"He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me (Jesus), hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."-John 5:24
Someone needs to explain to me that if Baptism saves then how did the Ethiopian Eunich receive the spirit before being baptized in Acts 10:41??? Especially when Acts 10:43 says "..that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16). What this verse doesn't say is "whosoever does not get baptised will be condemned" but it does say,"whoever does not believe will be condemned".
Jesus referred to baptism as a work of righteousness (Matt. 3:15). It is 'not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us." (Titus 3:5)-Dr. Norman Geisler points this out and I haven't really heard any one refute it. I've only heard people ignore it.
If baptism saves then Paul committed blasphemy because the Bible says: For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel-not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power (1 Corinthians 1:17).
This verse teaches that the Gospel saves and it separates Baptism from the gospel.
Paul here draws a distinction between baptism and the gospel. And since it is the gospel that saves (1 Corinthians 15:1,2), baptism is clearly not necessary to attain salvation-Dr. Norman Geisler, Dr. Ron Rhodes, etc.
Acts 2:38 may be translated,"Be baptized because of the remission of sins"-Dr. Charles Ryrie Acts 2:38 uses a causual resultant. Do you take an aspirin "for" (to get) a headache? Or do you take an aspirin as a result of a headache?
Note: the Greek preposition ("eis"-"for") in Acts 2:38 can actually have the meaning "because of" as it does in Matt. 12:41.
Another point I want to make is I Peter 3:21
"The like *figure* whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."-I Peter 3:21
There are two things. (1) It plainly says that Baptism saves as an appeal towards God which is what faith is but it says that Baptism doesn't wash your sins of the flesh away. Do you know why? Baptism is a picture of what has already happened. If you put Baptism in reverse order of salvation then salvation is a work.
(2) I looked up the word "figure" and it means a representation, counterpart or like figure. Cameras weren't invented in the time of Christ so they didn't have the word "Picture". Pictures don't create salvation. Pictures only capture what has happened. "The like figure" of "Baptism" is a picture and not the cause of salvation.
Baptism is a picture of what Christ has done for us. The like figure of what baptism represents (Christ's judgment for our sins) is what actually saves us.
Jude's example to contend for the faith is to remember those who were destroyed by God who believed not and doesn't mention baptism.
"That they al might be ****** who believed not the truth.." (II Thess. 2:12) talks about belief is a requirement for salvation and not baptism.
The Bible speaks of the word of God (1 Peter 1:23; James 1:18.21; Romans 10:17) as the instrument used by God in regeneration, not baptism.
Dr. Gleason Archer points out that works don't save and even if they could, God says that there is none good but God so our works would be evil.-Matthew 19:17. And Rhodes points out that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. The fact that our sins are as filthy rags and that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, there is nothing we can do apart from jesus Christ's finished work on the cross. Since Jesus referred to Baptism as a work of righteousness, I know that it isn't according to works of righteousness that we have done but according to His mercy He has saved us (Titus 3:5)
And I will interpret the hard to understand verses in the Bible by the clear verses:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."-John 3:16
"As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12)
"...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God." John 1:13
"Verily, Verily I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, *Hath* everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."John 5:24
It doesn't say,'might have' or 'could have'.. It says,"*hath*" everlasting life.
Those are clear verses to me.
There are other verses which say the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from sin.
--------------------
"He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me (Jesus), hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."-John 5:24
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kimber1
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no, i don't think baptism is necessary to be saved but it is an act of obedience. i just became a member of my church recently and was baptized in July. i had been baptized at 15 in a different denominational church so was asked if i wanted to be baptized at my home church. i feel like i had a much better understanding of the whole concept at age 32 than i did at age 15!!
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Knight
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Congrats Kim.
My reason for taking so long was in three parts.
1) The church I grew up in, while they did not teach baptism as a requirement for salvation, did not do a great job of explaining why. It was just somthing you did. That did not seem right to me.
2) Rebellion. Related to #3 but I did not want to go through this. Again, partially because I did not understand and partially because reason #3.
3) Stage fright. The thought of getting up in front of everybody and being baptised scared the life out of me. The funny part about this is I was finally baptised during Easter Sunday with two services. Service #1 did the testimonies only and service #2 did the actual baptism.
My reason for taking so long was in three parts.
1) The church I grew up in, while they did not teach baptism as a requirement for salvation, did not do a great job of explaining why. It was just somthing you did. That did not seem right to me.
2) Rebellion. Related to #3 but I did not want to go through this. Again, partially because I did not understand and partially because reason #3.
3) Stage fright. The thought of getting up in front of everybody and being baptised scared the life out of me. The funny part about this is I was finally baptised during Easter Sunday with two services. Service #1 did the testimonies only and service #2 did the actual baptism.
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Chuck_Slotter said:
Whether baptism saves or not, it is vital, is it not? Doesn't Paul say that the water, the blood and the spirit all testify AS ONE of Christ? So if we are missing one element, are we not missing the full gospel? So whether it saves or not, we should not consider it any less than the blood or the spirit.
Consider, as you mentioned, that Christ was baptized. John called men to baptism. If Jesus was baptized - who didn't need to be baptized for righteousness (or did He?), then how much more should we be baptized whether it saves or not?
Remember, Peter actually ORDERED men to be baptized. It is a vital thing in the life of a believer.
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You know, I am really thinking of just doing it again, with what you all have said.
Does it matter if it is sprinkle or submersion? My church does sprinkle, and I'd have to find another to do submersion.
Do you HAVE to give your testamony? Is this a requirement?
Does it matter if it is sprinkle or submersion? My church does sprinkle, and I'd have to find another to do submersion.
Do you HAVE to give your testamony? Is this a requirement?
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Knight
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Galadriel said:
I've heard arguments for both. My belief is that submersion is the most accurate method when you look at what the word "baptise" means.
Testimonies are not a Biblical requirement. A profession of faith is. Our church does testimonies as an evangelistic tool. We recognize that the baptisee may have invited unsaved family members and friends to witness the baptism. There's also the possibility that the testimony may speak to someone who has been struggling in their faith. However, we do not require them. They also come in all forms from the most complex to the simple. Mine, for example, was very simple.
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Stanfi
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I don't believe baptism is a requirement for salvation. I do believe that a baptism is important for the spiritual growth of the believer. It is an outward sign of an inward change. It is a way to show the world that Jesus has made a change inside of you. After all, Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him today in paradise, and that man did not have a chance to be baptised.
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Baptism is NOT required for salvation. Simply accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior, confessing your sins, and changing because of it, is what will bring you salvation. After that you would want to be baptized in water and in the Holy Ghost. Some people get baptized in the Holy Ghost on the same night that they are saved. Baptism is not required to be saved and baptism does not save you.
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You must be born again of WATER and the SPIRIT
On the first day of the church...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter answered and said unto them, REPENT and BE BAPTIZED everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And remember... Peter had the revelation of Jesus Christ, Peter had the keys of heaven, and Peter was the chief apostle...should we doubt what Peter said? None of the other apostles disagreed with what Peter preached.
If anyone here has any questions that truley wants to know more about God please visit this site and it will explain the new birth
ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New-Top.htm[/url]
its not mine but it will help get you the understanding you seek
God bless
Jerry
ps i can explain more, if you want to know please email me
jerry_fudala@msn.com
On the first day of the church...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter answered and said unto them, REPENT and BE BAPTIZED everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And remember... Peter had the revelation of Jesus Christ, Peter had the keys of heaven, and Peter was the chief apostle...should we doubt what Peter said? None of the other apostles disagreed with what Peter preached.
If anyone here has any questions that truley wants to know more about God please visit this site and it will explain the new birth
ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New-Top.htm[/url]
its not mine but it will help get you the understanding you seek
God bless
Jerry
ps i can explain more, if you want to know please email me
jerry_fudala@msn.com
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Blessed-one
a long journey ahead
but the man beside Jesus on the cross did not get baptised.
think of similar situation, if a person received Jesus on the death bed and was too weak to have full submersion, then that person isn't saved??
think of similar situation, if a person received Jesus on the death bed and was too weak to have full submersion, then that person isn't saved??
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Hi 
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.John 3:16
By Grace and Love of Our Father in Heaven, and Our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are saved.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.John 3:16
By Grace and Love of Our Father in Heaven, and Our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are saved.
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seangoh
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i think there is a common mistake christians make. That is, we assume too much.While it is indeed true that we are saved by grace through faith, does it mean that it stops there? Does it mean we don't do anything?Does it mean we can throw the law away? God forbid!
Similarly, whosoever believes in Him shall not perish. But even the devils believe in Him.
So what i'm saying is, please stop assuming things and try to make the effort to explain it more. This would certainly clear up lots of confusion.
i know i'm guilty of this myself so it's a reminder myself too.
Similarly, whosoever believes in Him shall not perish. But even the devils believe in Him.
So what i'm saying is, please stop assuming things and try to make the effort to explain it more. This would certainly clear up lots of confusion.
i know i'm guilty of this myself so it's a reminder myself too.
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