Is Astrology a science?

[Diamond72]

Are you saying that you think an omnipotent God actually made the choice to do that?

You made the choice. We make all of our own choices.

 

[inquiring mind]

On what basis? Your forum name indicates that you have an inquiring mind. What enquiries have you made that will lead you to your conclusion?

I don’t know really, sometimes answers just jump out at me:

1700s-1800s European colonialist nations like England, France, and Denmark avoid conducting censuses of their own countries due to opposition from the nobility, who fear losing power to the central government.

Babylonians counted livestock and quantities of butter, honey, milk, wool, and vegetables.

Mongols… come on.

 

[inquiring mind]

How irresponsible for the modelers to ignore the population aged up to 350 years old.
Incidentally Noah lived for 950 years so we need to include the 950 year olds in the model as well.

And don't forget the Mongols.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I don’t know really, sometimes answers just jump out at me:

1700s-1800s European colonialist nations like England, France, and Denmark avoid conducting censuses of their own countries due to opposition from the nobility, who fear losing power to the central government.

Babylonians counted livestock and quantities of butter, honey, milk, wool, and vegetables.

Mongols… come on.

You can also measure the density of settlements and determine the typical population of each and get reasonable estimates of populations.

 

[Bradskii]

You made the choice. We make all of our own choices.

I wasn't involved. The bible says that He created the flood. Whether they went to heaven or not He drowned them. Infants made no choice but they were drowned as well. You seem to think that's ok...

 

[inquiring mind]

You can also measure the density of settlements and determine the typical population of each and get reasonable estimates of populations.

Maybe so. I don't know where I read it, but I still think unreliable before 1800 is probably the best answer.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Maybe so. I don't know where I read it, but I still think unreliable before 1800 is probably the best answer.

That's what the referenced error bars are for.

 

[Bradskii]

I don’t know really, sometimes answers just jump out at me:

1700s-1800s European colonialist nations like England, France, and Denmark avoid conducting censuses of their own countries due to opposition from the nobility, who fear losing power to the central government.

Babylonians counted livestock and quantities of butter, honey, milk, wool, and vegetables.

Mongols… come on.

The Brits knew their population at the time of the Magna Carta and the Domesday book (one of the most comprehensive surveys done by any country to that time). Having a formal census isn't the same as totalling everyone for the purpose of taxes and knowing what workforce one had. And the Babylonians counted those things as well as the population. And the Mongols ruled the largest empire the world has ever seen.

These are examples of ancient knowledge that you said didn't exist. There's countless more. Population has remained pretty much static this last millennium or so up until recent times. Literally all the evidence points to it and none points to anything remotely like a doubling every 150 years.

You've been told a lie. It's patently obvious. The only problem is, they seem to be the ones that know it's a lie and you don't. But hey, you 'read it somewhere'. Versus all the knowledge of population growth you're ever likely to find anywhere.

Seriously?

 

[Diamond72]

Infants made no choice but they were drowned as well. You seem to think that's ok...

I struggle with that more than anything. If God is good, why is there pain, misery, and suffering in this world? The bottom line is that YOU are accusing God of NOT being JUST. You think He is unfair in some way. God has impressed it upon me that He is a just God. Absolute and perfect justice and everyone is going to get what they deserve. So we need to quit trying to blame Him and take a good, long hard look at ourselves. So your attempt to justify yourself and claim that you have no blame is doomed to failure. We need to humble ourselves and admit that we fall short of the standard that God sets for us.

 

[Diamond72]

And don't forget the Mongols.

What about the Mongols?

 

[Bradskii]

I struggle with that more than anything. If God is good, why is there pain, misery, and suffering in this world? The bottom line is that YOU are accusing God of NOT being JUST. You think He is unfair in some way. God has impressed it upon me that He is a just God. Absolute and perfect justice and everyone is going to get what they deserve. So we need to quit trying to blame Him and take a good, long hard look at ourselves. So your attempt to justify yourself and claim that you have no blame is doomed to failure. We need to humble ourselves and admit that we fall short of the standard that God sets for us.

Nah, mate. Check my details. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God, let alone that He drowned a complete planet. I just wanted to know if you thought it was acceptable to drown kids. And you think it's justified.

I'm not questioning God's morals. I'm checking yours. And that you think that they 'got what they deserved' tells me what I wanted to know.

 

[AV1611VET]

And that you think that they 'got what they deserved' tells me what I wanted to know.

Heaven?

 

[Diamond72]

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God

By definition to be an atheist you have to be anti God. Every atheist I ever knew did not believe their idea of who or what God is. In that regard, I agree with them. I also do not believe in the God that they do not believe in. Because they do not know the true God.

 

[Diamond72]

I just wanted to know if you thought it was acceptable to drown kids.

Noah preached righteousness for 120 years and people would not listen. He built a boat and the people still would not listen or believe that there was going to be a flood. As forest Gump says, stupid is as stupid does. Giving people a choice is what makes them human. You can not blame God for the choice that people make. We all have the same choice. Be rescued and saved or perish in our sin. You and all of your family. You want to blame God for giving you the freedom to make all of your own choices. Even the choice to perish?

 

[Tuur]

A theory which tries to explain an observation when there is no evidence for the observation in the first place is a definite example of pseudoscience.

That's circular reasoning. You could just as well define pseudoscience as anything you disagree with.

The Kekule example is not a case of pseudoscience as he was addressing an observation which could not be explained by 19th century chemistry the low reactivity of benzene.

Yet by his own words the inspiration of his hypothesis came to him in a daydream. Giving that a pass while labeling the catastrophic tectonic plate hypothesis a pseudoscience due to its origin is a double standard. What separates the two is not the inspiration, but the final results.

It ironical you use the Hawaiian Islands as an example.
The islands are formed through volcanism when the Pacific plate passes over a hotspot in the mantle.
By knowing the age of the Hawaiian volcanoes and their distance from the hotspot, the velocity of the Pacific plate can be calculated and is around 7 cm/year.
This is another example which shows the plates are moving a far too slowly and contradicts catastrophic plate theory.

Sigh. That is precisely why I used that as an example. It's a refutation for the catastrophic tectonic plate hypothesis. The first time I heard of catastrophic tectonic plate hypothesis, the sea mount and island chain as the Pacific Plate passed over the Hawaiian hot spot came to mind almost immediately (if anyone wants to see why, go to Google Earth, rotate the globe to the Pacific, and note the sea mount and island chain that stretches from Asia to Hawaii).

Now, the catastrophic tectonic plate hypothesis doesn't hold up. That in itself doesn't make it a pseudoscience. What makes it a pseudoscience is its persistence despite the hypothesis not holding up.

 

[Bradskii]

Noah preached righteousness for 120 years and people would not listen. He built a boat and the people still would not listen or believe that there was going to be a flood. As forest Gump says, stupid is as stupid does. Giving people a choice is what makes them human. You can not blame God for the choice that people make. We all have the same choice. Be rescued and saved or perish in our sin. You and all of your family. You want to blame God for giving you the freedom to make all of your own choices. Even the choice to perish?

Infants can't make choices.

 

[Tuur]

This is why I call the creation ministries all "professional liars". The things they "craft" as "science" are things that *require* them to understand what they are doing and therefore understand that what they propose is false.

That only holds true if they knowingly distort information. Yes, that has happened on occasion. It's happened on occasion in mainstream science, too. And both sides show a hostility at being questioned.

 

[Bradskii]

By definition to be an atheist you have to be anti God. Every atheist I ever knew did not believe their idea of who or what God is.

I don't have a personal idea of God. All the impressions and ideas of Him that I have are those from other people. Like yours. You believe in a God that will drown infants who have no opportunity to make choices. That doesn't actually tell me anything about God. But it tells me a lot about you.

 

[Bradskii]

That only holds true if they knowingly distort information.

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they know. Does this sound like an honest approach to science?

'In a biblical worldview, scientific observations are interpreted in light of the truth that is found in the Bible. If conclusions contradict the truth revealed in Scripture, the conclusions are rejected'.

What Is Science?

Science: Knowledge that is testable, repeatable, observable, and falsifiable - originally developed by men who assumed God created an orderly universe.

answersingenesis.org

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't have a personal idea of God. All the impressions and ideas of Him that I have are those from other people. Like yours. You believe in a God that will drown infants who have no opportunity to make choices. That doesn't actually tell me anything about God. But it tells me a lot about you.

For one thing, they don't stay infants for long.

And perhaps had He known that, if He sheltered them, they would have rebelled against Him by killing Noah and his family.

And if I'm wrong, it's no big deal.

The point is, there's just so much of the story you don't know, that God did know.

Perhaps He raptured them before the Flood?

But if He didn't, I'm going with what God did as just and right.