Is assurance of salvation possible?

[HatGuy]

It's impossible to come back. I have tried for a long time now.

Since you are here and wanting to come back, you are back. If you weren't back you would not even be here.

I'd venture to say you're depressed, not damned.

Salvation and assurance is not dependent upon how we feel, but on Christ - who died on the cross for all.

If it was for all, then it was for you too.

Hebrews 6 is a very debated scripture, and people who genuinely fall away from the faith are those who want nothing to do with it - or even campaign against it.

That is not you obviously.

 

[Danthemailman]

I don't believe in faith alone.

I don't believe in salvation by a dead faith that remains "alone" -- barren of works (James 2:14-20) which is not authentic faith but an empty profession of faith. I do however believe in salvation through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE (Romans 3:24-28; Ephesians 2:8,9).

 

[Danthemailman]

Rom 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

There are only two kinds of slaves/servants in this world, in the spiritual sense; slaves/servants of sin unto death, or slaves/servants of obedience unto righteousness.

When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 1:16) we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

*Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

*Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is credited as righteousness.

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." We must not ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stresses "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which follow saving faith in Christ are unto righteousness, as if we are saved by works.

 

[Danthemailman]

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not to "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.

So work out your own salvation means to "work out," not "work for." A "works salvation" is not being taught here. The idea is to progress to the finish or completion in spiritual growth and maturity. This process is what the Bible calls "sanctification." Paul makes it clear that we are to be active, not passive, in this ongoing process. However, though we are active, we are not alone in this process. Philippians 2:13 reminds us that it is God who works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Fear and trembling is the attitude in which Christians are to pursue their ongoing sanctification, which includes a healthy fear of offending God and reverence/respect for Him (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2). Not fear and bondage to insecurity about our salvation or fear of God like He is a tyrant Who can't wait to punish us when we mess up.

 

[AFrazier]

Well, Paul talks about the possibility of losing salvation in 1 Corinthians 9:27:
"but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Just to say so, that's a great passage. Modern church teachings are constantly trying to beat into our heads that our flesh is wicked, and we can't help sinning because of its weakness. But Paul is here making a conspicuous point that he has become the master of his body and made it his slave.

So much for the often ill-quoted, out of context Romans 7 references that make us out to be helpless against the wiles of our wicked flesh.

Thanks for pointing out that passage. It's so small and innocuous, but oh so powerful.

 

[Danthemailman]

This verse about demons is in the context of demons believing "God is one". Demons cannot have faith. They are demons and know God exists. God is invisible to us so we may have faith, and so be saved.

In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/rely upon Jesus Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Christ), as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

 

[Danthemailman]

Well, Paul talks about the possibility of losing salvation in 1 Corinthians 9:27: "but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Was Paul talking about being disqualified for the gift of eternal life or for the prize? The NIV says - "..disqualified for the prize." Is eternal life/salvation a prize or a gift? (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8)

 

[SeventyOne]

What rewards does Paul mention that he is afraid of losing?

When a person speaks of being disqualified, it means they lose everything. If one is disqualified for a matter, one has lost it all.

Read the chapter for yourself if you want the answer. He mentions his 'reward' and 'prize' several time. This is a completely different subject than salvation. He likens it to an athlete competing in a race for a prize. If such an athlete fails to win the prize, he doesn't 'lose it all'. What a bizarre concept. He isn't stripped of all possessions then taken out behind the stadium and shot, losing everything in the process. His only loss pertains to the reward of the race itself, but he still remains an athlete.

 

[Danthemailman]

Read the chapter for yourself if you want the answer. He mentions his 'reward' and 'prize' several time. This is a completely different subject than salvation. He likens it to an athlete competing in a race for a prize. If such an athlete fails to win the prize, he doesn't 'lose it all'. What a bizarre concept. He isn't stripped of all possessions then taken out behind the stadium and shot, losing everything in the process. His only loss pertains to the reward of the race itself, but he still remains an athlete.

Amen! Notice that verse 24 says, "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it."

In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or from the prize, receiving the gold medal?

 

[SeventyOne]

Your assertion is incorrect. I suggest you study the Greek word translated as disqualified in 1 Cor 9:27 which is adokimos. "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that having preached to others I myself should not be disqualified" (adokimos | ἀδόκιμος | nom sg masc).
It is the same word used elsewhere for example in Romans 1:28. "And as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a debased (adokimon | ἀδόκιμον | acc sg masc) mind, to do things that ought not to be done."
It is clear that the context of Rom 1:28 refers to unsaved people. Thus the same word in 1 Cor 9:27 refers to being disqualified as in loss of salvation - not loss of reward - as you claim.

Try reading the whole chapter, not just a single verse. Context is key.

This is like you claiming because I used the word 'green' in the sentence, "The grass is green.", in the past to mean the color of the grass, if I were to later say, "The new recruits were green.", then you'd claim I had to mean their skin color was green, rather than immature and untested as the context demands.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Read the chapter for yourself if you want the answer. He mentions his 'reward' and 'prize' several time.

The crown of life is one which is salvation. I gather you don’t know of any others since you have no answer to my question.

The answer is none beyond salvation. The concept of salvation and rewards as separate is not something yet invented in Paul’s day.

This is a completely different subject than salvation. He likens it to an athlete competing in a race for a prize. If such an athlete fails to win the prize, he doesn't 'lose it all'. What a bizarre concept.

No, salvation is the same. There was no different theology yet invented. When an athlete fails to win the prize, he doesn’t have ANY of the prize. None. He’s lost it all. Why is this idea strange?

He isn't stripped of all possessions then taken out behind the stadium and shot, losing everything in the process. His only loss pertains to the reward of the race itself, but he still remains an athlete.

Huh? We are talking the prize. Paul was disciplining himself to gain the prize lest he lose the prize, all of the prize. There was no losing the prize yet retaining part for him.

Btw, this whole description is a METAPHOR which is has limits in what it teaches. When Jesus taught in parables, he used metaphor. The virgins with the oil were not teaching one can buy something of the Kingdom with money.

 

[HatGuy]

In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/rely upon Jesus Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Christ), as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Agreed. When I said

 

[HatGuy]

In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/rely upon Jesus Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Christ), as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Agreed. When I said they can't have faith, I simply meant they cannot trust in God like we do.

 

[Oldmantook]

Is faith to believe in Christ for salvation a gift from God?

If you bothered to explain how your question relates to my original comment then I would know how to best answer your question.

 

[Oldmantook]

Try reading the whole chapter, not just a single verse. Context is key.

This is like you claiming because I used the word 'green' in the sentence, "The grass is green.", in the past to mean the color of the grass, if I were to later say, "The new recruits were green.", then you'd claim I had to mean their skin color was green, rather than immature and untested as the context demands.

I've read the whole chapter and you've failed to explain how it contradicts my explanation. Please feel free to elaborate if you're able to.

 

[Rescued One]

I am not convinced it is impossible. It is likely that what one had, does not return for a long time. But if you confess and repent AND make restitution to those you wronged, I believe grace will be granted. THe road is hard though. I would advise you ask God to show you everyone you wronged and what you can do to make it right. God gives grace to those who humble themselves.

Who humbles himself without God's grace? What causes you to think man has some innate goodness in him?

 

[Rescued One]

Been there, done that.

The fact is that your argument is very logical (free will an illusion) and so it seems like it must be right.

But it is neither Biblical not experientially true.

The will may be bound to sin, but this does not mean there is no free will. These are two different concepts.

I've never heard that. Chapter and verse please.

Plus once you come to faith the will is freed.

The will is changed.

 

[AACJ]

I would say probably not since God is the final judge or I might become an Apostate. What do you think?

You seem to be referring to two topics, the Doctrine of Assurance concerning present salvation and the Doctrine of whats often referred to as Perseverance of the Saints (conditional or unconditional future security). I will just respond to the first.

Yes there is. The Bible presents at least 3 ways to be sure of your salvation.

1- Through Direct revelation. That is, God Almighty directly communicating the truth of your salvation to you(Romans 8:16; I John 2:20, 27; 4:13). I have experienced this and do experience it. God has, does, and can directly communicate truth. Immature Christians must learn to discern between impressions of the flesh, from the Enemy, and those from the Holy Spirit.

One can include in this category feelings. We all want to feel like we are saved. I believe that although not all persons experience extraordinary conversion experiences with powerful feelings, at some point all those who love Christ and are saved will experience good feelings associated with true salvation. This is the normal experience.

2- By and through God's Word. God is not a man that He should lie. Salvation is yours for the asking. If you repent (Acts 3:19) and rely on the Christ's atoning work on the Cross for the remissions of your sins, your instantly passed from death to life (John 3:16). God's Word is true and authoritative. Therefore you can choose not to rely on feelings and choose rather to trust in what you know to be true as revealed to you in God's Word. You have access to his instruction and commands.

We are saved by grace through faith--not through feelings. If feelings are telling you you are not saved when in fact God's Word says you are, then you can choose to believe God's Word instead. Feelings can accurately reflect reality, but sometimes they do not. We must learn to discern between feelings of the flesh, from the Enemy, and those resulting from the moving of the Holy Spirit. The Word of God serves as a guide in helping us to discern between impressions from God and impressions from elsewhere.

3- By your Conscience (Acts 24:16; 1 Timothy 1:19) That is, do you believe that you are doing what God wants you to do? If your conscience is bothering you, then that might be an indication that you are actually walking outside the will of God. But it must be remembered that one's conscience can sometimes not accurately reflect reality. That is, the Christian believes he/she is failing in regards to sin when in fact the failure lies in not having a good understanding of the work and person Jesus Christ.

There is good teaching material out there on the The Doctrine of Assurance. Ask the Lord to lead you to the right material and give you understanding.

 

[Rescued One]

Is faith to believe in Christ for salvation a gift from God?

Every good and perfect gift is from God.

Romans 6
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[SeventyOne]

The crown of life is one which is salvation. I gather you don’t know of any others since you have no answer to my question.

The answer is none beyond salvation. The concept of salvation and rewards as separate is not something yet invented in Paul’s day. No, salvation is the same. There was no different theology yet invented. When an athlete fails to win the prize, he doesn’t have ANY of the prize. None. He’s lost it all. Why is this idea strange?
Huh? We are talking the prize. Paul was disciplining himself to gain the prize lest he lose the prize, all of the prize. There was no losing the prize yet retaining part for him.

Btw, this whole description is a METAPHOR which is has limits in what it teaches. When Jesus taught in parables, he used metaphor. The virgins with the oil were not teaching one can buy something of the Kingdom with money.

Salvation isn't a prize. It isn't based on our performance. Once you learn that, you'll understand that chapter better.