Is Anyone Truly Moderate?

jimmyjimmy

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To me (I consider myself moderate), being moderate is not the opposite of strong zeal. I can be very zealous. But I am not likely to be very zealous for extreme or fringe positions or petty matters or personal preferences, but to reserve zeal for the core of orthodox belief. For second-order issues or adiaphora, I'm much more likely to adopt a generosity of approach.


It's my experience that most people use "liberalism" to mean something pejorative, and then find something with which they disagree on which to hang the label.

To me, a liberal is someone who is happy to depart from orthodoxy (and therefore, a liberal Catholic might be a bit different from a liberal Anglican, and so forth).

Liberals typically, and happily, define and identify themselves, but some take cover behind a "moderate" label, which is why I wish the SoP were more clear in this forum so that people couldn't get away with that, nor would they feel the need to.

A forum in which conservatives and liberals can remain such while discussing issues would be welcome.
 
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Albion

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Thanks for your reply; however, I don't someway with a similar understanding from reading the SoP.

The SoP has one line that might fit your explanation, "Moderate Christians believe in treating others fairly." which contains nothing unique to so called "moderates". It can be said for any Christian, and is part of the site wide rules of CF: "Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue."
I was part of the discussion that led to the creation of this forum long, long ago. Therefore, I remember very well why it was thought to be needed, what was agreed upon, and all of that. That was a time when postings between liberals and conservatives seemed particularly raw and people were asking to have forums set aside just for their group. Someone had the idea that people who could and would agree to discuss things without that kind of swagger might rightly come in for a separate forum.

I did not feel, at that time, that the title (which itself was a compromise) would work well--and it has not (as we can see).

In fact, I several times since have recommended that it be eliminated because of low traffic and the never-ending misunderstandings concerning what it's is all about. That recommendation was not adopted, so now we have almost no traffic and what does show up rarely has any connection to the purpose for which Bridge Builders was started. On the other hand, I suppose it's safe to say that no particular harm has been done because of that.

I agree that the SOP could have been written differently, but those 'stickies' seem always to be created later, after the forum is up and running, and I have no idea how they go about deciding what should be in them.

So there's the story. Carry on.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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I was part of the discussion that led to the creation of this forum long, long ago. Therefore, I remember very well why it was thought to be needed, what was agreed upon, and all of that. I did not feel, by the way, that the title would work well--and it has not (as we can see).

In fact, I several times since have recommended that it be eliminated because of low traffic and the never-ending misunderstandings concerning what it's is all about. That recommendation was not adopted, so now we have almost no traffic and what does show up rarely has any connection to the purpose for which Bridge Builders was started.

However, I agree that the SOP could have been written differently, but those 'stickies' seem always to be created later, after the forum is up and running, and I have no idea how they go about assigning moderators to do that task.

So there's the story. Carry on.

LOL. I'm sorry to have made you explain that, yet again. If this keeps happening over and over again, it does prove you were right!

I am not hopeful about any bridge-building, as the worldview of liberals and conservatives are very different. It's not that we simply disagree on issues, it's that we see the world in fundamentally different ways. That does mean there are two correct ways, but it explains why they get things wrong.

*Making a huge generalization, liberals are "feelers", and conservatives are "thinkers", just as men are more thinkers and woman more feelers, and there is little understanding of the opposite sex, as far as their thought processes goes.

The only bridge-building that can be accomplished is under the cross. The gospel is the heart of Christianity, and unity can be found in it alone.
 
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Albion

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The forum was created in the heat of a certain moment, and while the idea seems reasonable enough, the main "problem" (I thought) was that, if its purpose is correctly understood, there's no particular subject or theme other than 'be nice in your speech!' But what is supposed to be discussed here--everything? I guess so, but people won't choose to discuss a religious or political topic here in preference to some other forum where the topic more naturally fits and other posters will notice it. ;)
 
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jimmyjimmy

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The forum was created in the heat of a certain moment, and while the idea seems reasonable enough, the main "problem" (I thought) was that, if its purpose is correctly understood, there's no particular subject or theme other than 'be nice in your speech!' But what is supposed to be discussed here--everything? I guess so, but people won't choose to discuss a religious or political topic here in preference to some other forum where the topic more naturally fits and other posters will notice it. ;)

You are correct again.

I do have interest in discussions with people who are just left of center in their Christianity.
 
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Albion

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Well, there's nothing wrong with the OP -- your OP -- that got us going on this discussion about the purposes for having Bridge Builders, so it occurs to me that maybe you should just test out what we've been kicking around. Maybe you should post several OPs heavy in doctrinal content or something like that and see if we attract posters to them and if the discussion can be kept on a calm level.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Well, there's nothing wrong with the OP -- your OP -- that got us going on this discussion about the purposes for having Bridge Builders, so it occurs to me that maybe you should just test out what we've been kicking around. Maybe you should post several OPs heavy in doctrinal content or something like that and see if we attract posters to them and if the discussion can be kept on a calm level.

OK. I think it can remain at a calm level when both parties remain calm.

Part of the reason I wish to post here is to hone my ability to argue while remaining calm. I do that much of the time, but not always, depending on the subject, so I might start with a topic which is not very controversial.

Persuasion is a lost art, so I would hope that this forum would help bring it back.
 
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FireDragon76

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Moderation has long been recognized as a virtue. "Hold the Mean" was one of the sayings written at the Oracle of Delphi. Early Christians also recognized this virtue. In most interactions in the world, being peacable is more important than being right, and there is frequently a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good.

It's rare to get discussions here because many don't recognize it as a virtue anymore. Popular evangelicalism has tended to replace it as a virtue with zeal. But I think its interesting that Jesus often rebuked the zeal of his disciples.
 
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WannaWitness

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I've said this probably thousands of times, but I think that the confusion regarding the word "moderate" lies in the countless ways it is interpreted. As for myself, I consider myself moderate in my tendency to believe that Christians should not argue theology or "secondary issues" when it comes to one another's personal convictions; after all, we as Christians are all unique in many ways and God speaks to us as the individuals that we are. Romans 14 covers how we are to treat one another regarding what the first verse of that chapter refers to as "doubtful things". Now, if "moderate" is referring to being passive when it comes to taking a stand for Christ and the truths of the Bible, then that's another thing entirely; I do not consider myself moderate in that sense. Christians should be proud of their personal testimonies about what God has done for them in their lives and be willing and ready to be messengers for Him in shining the light in this dark world. However, there is a time and place for it, and a right way to approach people, speaking as God leads us to speak. We don't growl, snarl, and beat people in the head with the Bible, or brag about how "good" we believe ourselves to be compared to others; that would be a poor witness... then we wonder why people don't want to come to the Lord. We should concentrate on leading by example, and when sharing the Word of God with others, we do so in a loving manner, relating to whoever we might be speaking to with our own weaknesses in mind. If we can do that, we just may be effective in our witness, and more people will want to know the Lord as we do.

This was very hard to explain, so I hope it's clear what I was trying to get at.

God bless.
 
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Sam91

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I am very zealous for the Lord but recognise how we need to live in harmony, not judge, not cause people to sin so shouldn't wind them up. Therefore I tend to leave others be unless I can build them up in Christ. Is that the definition of moderate?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I am very zealous for the Lord but recognise how we need to live in harmony, not judge, not cause people to sin so shouldn't wind them up. Therefore I tend to leave others be unless I can build them up in Christ. Is that the definition of moderate?
Remember Paul's warning to the assembly in Ephesus(and similar warnings to other assemblies including in the first 3 chapters of Revelation), that wolves were already circling and waiting to move in to tear apart the flock as soon as he(paul) departed (died/slept/or left?).

Even with Yhwh's fore-warning to them through Jesus through Paul about the enemy actively seeking to cause destruction through the wolves/ sons-of-disobedience ,

BECAUSE they did NOT JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY , because they did not every day practice all that they had been taught and shown, all that God's Word shows, the assembly in Ephesus and others were torn apart shortly after the apostles had departed... (if they had JUDGED RIGHTEOUSLY, like Paul had been called to teach and train them , as Jesus had trained the disciples, the wolves would have been kept at bay- outside the assembly instead of being able to become part of it and destroy it from within)
 
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Sam91

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Thankfully the Lord gave us directions on how to protect ourselves from this. He gave us tools too.

His Word, an amazing tool, its almost alive when the Spirit guides you. Infact often it is.

The Spirit dwells in us to help us discern whether something is of God or not. There is a remarkable explanation of that in 1 John. I won't narrow it down because this topic is broached upon throughout the whole epistle.

What a Glorious God we have
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Thankfully the Lord gave us directions on how to protect ourselves from this. He gave us tools too.

His Word, an amazing tool, its almost alive when the Spirit guides you. Infact often it is.

The Spirit dwells in us to help us discern whether something is of God or not.
Yes, and very simply, very truthfully,
this is judgment. Rightly used, it protects us in Christ and keeps us set apart.
It is the righteous judgment believers are told by Jesus to use,
instead of man's temporal or other kinds of judgment(in english 'judgment' covers several different kinds of judging).
 
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Sam91

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That's why I prefer the word discern. > . <

There are many passages where the word judge shot sheer terror through me as a judgemental teen. You obviously can recollect those yrself. I still monitor any negative thoughts and ask if I was judging someone as I obviously err greatly far too often. :/
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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as I obviously err greatly far too often.
Jesus disciples (like peter, james, john, etc ) had the same 'problem' ......

Jesus told them (and us in Christ) "I know "
Jesus said to them (and to us in Christ) "Never worry "
Jesus said to them (and to us in Christ)
"I (ME, SAVIOR, KING of the JEWS,MESSIAH, ) -- I WILL TEACH YOU HOW ...
." (to live right) .. ... ...

(not go and learn somewhere else,
not keep trying you'll get it some day,
never 'give up' )

except DO give up on 'the flesh', 'human carnal teachers', etc ...

DO NOT give up on JESUS. He is TOTALLY FAITHFUL !
 
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Sam91

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That is all true. Thank you for those words.
Jesus disciples (like peter, james, john, etc ) had the same 'problem' ......

Jesus told them (and us in Christ) "I know "
Jesus said to them (and to us in Christ) "Never worry "
Jesus said to them (and to us in Christ)
"I (ME, SAVIOR, KING of the JEWS,MESSIAH, ) -- I WILL TEACH YOU HOW ...
." (to live right) .. ... ...

(not go and learn somewhere else,
not keep trying you'll get it some day,
never 'give up' )

except DO give up on 'the flesh', 'human carnal teachers', etc ...

DO NOT give up on JESUS. He is TOTALLY FAITHFUL !
 
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W2L

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OK. I think it can remain at a calm level when both parties remain calm.

Part of the reason I wish to post here is to hone my ability to argue while remaining calm. I do that much of the time, but not always, depending on the subject, so I might start with a topic which is not very controversial.

Persuasion is a lost art, so I would hope that this forum would help bring it back.

Keeping calm while arguing a bad opinion, and without ever allowing ourselves to change that opinion, is pretty useless. Even paul got a little fire and brimstone at times I must think. Any Atheist can remain calm while arguing against God. What good is that though?

Also, the goal should not be to remain calm, but instead to love, and to allow God to be in control as well. If we just argue about anything, no matter how calm we do it, then are we truly loving each other? Didn't paul teach us to put away debate? I believe your idea of spirituality is in need of evaluation.
 
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