bouncer,
"Obviously, Christians do not believe that Gabriel ever visited Muhammed."
But who sent Gabriel?
"Your reasons here are so incoherent and illogical, that I wonder if you are as knowledgable as you claim to be. You say we can never provide proof and in the same breath demand proof. Yes, there is no proof and the reasoning, though invalid, for such an assumption goes as follows:"
You see I got you! There is a difference to proof and evidence. I asked for evidence and Souljah gave it to me, and it was subjective still!
"Well obviously this is false reasoning, but the same kind of reasoning many muslims (probably even yourself) will use to say that Christianity is from Satan, or that Christians have been deceived by Satan."
This kind of reasoning is false I agree, which is why muslims,including me, must not use it, but certain christians do use it. However, I will never say that christianity comes from Satan. Christianity is very mixed up just like Israelite religion. Evidence and proof is the number of denominations and the differing opinions within each denomination. Some christians worship EL, some worship Yahweh. They are two distinct beings,ask the catholics. Yahweh is an evil being, although he is not Satan, he is evil nonetheless.He is a nother jinn type being, with the abilityto do good and evil. This jealous being wants to own a specific froup of people:the Israelites. Read the OT and see what Yahweh does and demands. See the difference between the Loving Father El?
"And if Jesus was God, then he was NOT any mere human who happened to be great. So again, I dont know what your point is. In any case if either Yahweh or Jesus is God, you are better off worshipping them no matter what you think of them. You know the consequences."
IF Yeshuwah(AS) was g-d, which he was and is not, so I am still better off worshipping a great human being as long as I make that great human being a g-d like christianity did. And Yahweh, once again is NOT g-d.
"Also, having lived in India, and among Hindus, who are polytheists, I happen to know that hinduism in its truest form has one of the greatest respect for human life, or life in general. No idea what unified family you are referring to....."
You really haven't learned enough, it seems, about polytheism and Hinduism to see that they truly do not respect human life.Unified family that I speak of is humanity. Anything that creates division among mankind is an enemy to mankind. This includes religion, caste system, each human group having separate g-ds,etc.... This is why christianity is not a religion, but a relationship(albeit a perceived relationship in my mind) with Yeshuwah haMashiach, and Islam is a philosophy governing a way of life. Polytheism allows people to have their own g-ds, thus creating the climate for murder of others in the name of g-d. Hinduism has no respect for human life b/c human beings are placed in categories that Allah did not create, causing strife and unfair and differential treatment of human beings. This is ANTI-LIFE.
"Following your line of reasoning, would it be fair for me to say; If Allah is God, I would rather worship a loving and merciful God found in the Bible, rather than one whose religion breeds terrorists who find the need to kill innocent people, whose prophet married a child of the age of 9, whose people are the cause of almost all known conflicts in the world today...........?"
This is indeed sophistry b/c you did not understand my line of reasoning in the first place so this conclusion you insist my argument breeds is false b/c my reasoning does not support this conclusion.Furthermore, the idea that the g-d of the bible is more loving and merciful than Allah is totally subjective, based on the false premise that the bible does not speak of three g-ds(EL,Yahweh,Shaitan,two of which are not g-d at all), and the false assumption Islam actually breeds terrorists., and the false assumption that Allah shows no love and merscy, and that the bible g-d always does. But I understand why you made the statement,even though is was not based on UNDERSTANDING OF MY COMMENTS. Hope I clarified it a little
"Christianity requires no such things. I think you need to spend some more time really studying Christianity in order to understand it truly. If you did understand it, you would know that Christianity does not require God to "adhere to laws he created". We believe God came down out of love for us.(John 3:16, i'm sure you know that one). The theme in the Bible has been, 'the least among you is the greatest' and God himself set an example by becoming that lowly creation--a human. Sure, he could have chosen to forgive us just by saying it, but what greater example of love can there be? "
Sorry my friend, but even though g-d may not require it, the existence of christianity IS dependent on the idea that original sin is true, vicarious atonement is true, resurrection is true, Yeshuwah is g-d is true,etc... These all REQUIRE that g-d adhere to his own law: that the wages of sin is death , and the only way to correct it is to sacrifice his "son". Instead of just forgiving us sin, he did this; christians say that he did it out of love but I will talk about that later.
"In a different discussion with a muslim friend, he was adamant in saying that God could have come down as a human but DID NOT since he is above such things. All I could think of at the time was, our concept of God is so different! We believe that God is the greater in his mercy, in his love, by becoming a lower being. You believe God is Omnipotent, merciful and loving; everything we believe in, but you also belive He is above certain things, like a master who is above doing the things his slaves do."
I would agree with the muslim except for the part about g-d being above such things. I simply say that Alllah did no such thing. Also Christians seem to talk of love in the emotional sense. Agape does not mean that Allah will do anything for you, but that he loves you unconditionally. With this in mind you have to ask yourself if love is a subjective emotion or not. If G-d loves then love is not an emotion. If love is an emotion, g-d does not love. But, then how can humans express love if it is something g-d has? Easy, think of life. Existence is not a human thing but a gift given to all living thing by G-d. Love is the same thing. Emotional human love is merely an expression of the love G_d has given us, limited by our finite mechanism for expressing it(our body and brain).Allah for us is also a friend and pesonal companion, but unlike any other we could ever have.Coming down in the form of a human is not an act of friendship, muslims believe.
souljah,
"Therefore, they are contradictory teachings. I believe Jesus Christ, and if that is the case, Islam must be wrong. If Islam is wrong, then Gabriel (the real one) couldn't have spoken against Jesus Christ. Even Mohammed wasn't sure if it was a demon in disguise."
This is still subjective knowledge, or belief.We don't even know if Yeshuwah(AS) said such a thing or that it means what you think it means. I have already showed you that in other posts. The church has TOLD you what that verse you quoted "means", without providing to belivers the text in Aramaic, it's Greek translation, its refernce in the Hebrew scriptures, or the understanding that that phrase would have conveyed in its context. The idea that the Prophet(SAW) wasn't sure that it was a demon in disguise is a false story that certain christian missionaries are spreading based on their understanding hadith readings. The Prophet(AS) was unsure why Allah would choose him ,and he was unsure if he could be really a rasul(messenger) and nabiy(prophet). And prophet means something different in Islam than is other religions and ideologies.
gunnysgt,
what does that post mean? Surely you aren't suggesting that American soldiers and Israeli soldiers aren't terrorists as well! Define terrorist please.Or are you saying that American soldiers are terrorizing Islam? The two words islamic terrorist are mutually exclusive. Just like one can not be a theist and an atheist. A christian and a pedophile. A muslim and a terrorist. They cancel each other out!
peace and blessings
assalamu alaikum
shalom aleykom
