Is Abortion Murder?

[Servant222]

No, a sperm or egg is half of a potential zygote and therefore only half of a potential baby.

A zygote is a baby to be. Just like a baby is an adult to be.

And every zygote is therefore a potential Nobel prize winner.

 

[Sojourner<><]

a sperm is a potential zygote, therefore sperm = zygote

a zygote is a potential baby, therefore sperm = zygote = baby

a baby is a potential nobel prize winning genius, therefore sperm = zygote = baby = nobel prize winner

sperm = nobel prize winner?

if you could pay $100 for something that had the potential to be worth $100 would it be a wise investment, giving up an existing $100 for a chance at getting the same amount back? a potential $100 is not the same as an existing $100.

(hope that made sense. sorry if it didn't)

It would be an even trade with no profit and no loss.

I think I can see where you're going with this though.

If I were to choose abstinence to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, wouldn't I be denying a potential human the chance to exist? It looks like that is true, and we know that there's nothing wrong with abstinence, so how can we say that abortion is wrong by the same logic? I believe the answer lies in the fact that abortion is literally the destruction of a potential human life whereas abstinence does not involve destruction of any kind.

In the case of abstinence, you can't destroy what does not exist. And in the case of abortion, you cannot stop nature without destroying what does exist.

Personally, I believe it would be wrong for anyone to end my life without a just cause. Therefore I must also consider it wrong if my life was ended without a just cause while I was still in the womb.

In conclusion, it would be wrong for me to abort my own child for selfish reasons because I myself would not have wanted to be aborted.

 

[April Angel]

In conclusion, it would be wrong for me to abort my own child for selfish reasons because I myself would not have wanted to be aborted.

That is exactly how I feel about it. I do not think that my mother had the right to make that choice about me, so why should I believe that I have the right to make that choice about someone else? In the case of myself being put in my mother's uterus, I always believed that God put me there and that what God had put there, Mother had no right to remove. That was what I was taught. I am grateful that my mother believed that and I am also grateful that she and my father did not believe in using condoms (they were Catholic) otherwise I would not be here. However, does that mean that condoms are wrong in all circumstances?

If my parents had used condoms I would not be here and my not being here would have been the same whether they had used condoms or whether they had just had a very early abortion. That is why this issue is so very difficult and there are no easy answers.

 

[Servant222]

Personally, I believe it would be wrong for anyone to end my life without a just cause. Therefore I must also consider it wrong if my life was ended without a just cause while I was still in the womb.

In conclusion, it would be wrong for me to abort my own child for selfish reasons because I myself would not have wanted to be aborted.

Agreed; well said!

 

[happyfreak14]

If I were to choose abstinence to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, wouldn't I be denying a potential human the chance to exist? It looks like that is true, and we know that there's nothing wrong with abstinence, so how can we say that abortion is wrong by the same logic? I believe the answer lies in the fact that abortion is literally the destruction of a potential human life whereas abstinence does not involve destruction of any kind.

I wasn't really going to take it that far. I would think the fact that a sperm is obviously not a nobel prize winner would make the point. potential for X is less valuable than X. that is not to say that it's valueless, but it's not the same either.

In conclusion, it would be wrong for me to abort my own child for selfish reasons because I myself would not have wanted to be aborted.

what reasons do you consider selfish?

 

[Calliso]

That is exactly how I feel about it. I do not think that my mother had the right to make that choice about me, so why should I believe that I have the right to make that choice about someone else? In the case of myself being put in my mother's uterus, I always believed that God put me there and that what God had put there, Mother had no right to remove. That was what I was taught. I am grateful that my mother believed that and I am also grateful that she and my father did not believe in using condoms (they were Catholic) otherwise I would not be here. However, does that mean that condoms are wrong in all circumstances?

If my parents had used condoms I would not be here and my not being here would have been the same whether they had used condoms or whether they had just had a very early abortion. That is why this issue is so very difficult and there are no easy answers.

Yeah but if you were never born it;s not like you would have cared. Since you would have never existed. Heck if you had been aborted you likely wouldn;t have cared. You can;t apply adult thoughts and emotions to fetus's and unfertilized eggs if you know what I mean.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Yeah but if you were never born it;s not like you would have cared. Since you would have never existed. Heck if you had been aborted you likely wouldn;t have cared. You can;t apply adult thoughts and emotions to fetus's and unfertilized eggs if you know what I mean.

True...

I think people in comas and mentally retarded people cannot fall into the self awareness realm either. Also many of the elderly that have or are losing their mental faculties fall into to this as well, even if only somewhat for most.

I am sure the person that was blown up by a terrorist never had any thoughts or emotions about their death since the explosion most likely happened without notice and death was instant. And once you are dead I guess it just does not matter anymore?

Then we have the mean people that are never nice... If we cannot give them some kind of drug to be nice then maybe they should be killed quickly and painlessly?

Or the raped woman that hates the world and especially men, wouldn't some of these people be better off dead and not suffering or embittered?

I know i can go on but you see how great killing people that are useless or have a negative impact on society, or those that just don't care would be if they were simply dead. Even offer assisted suicide at schools for students that are suicidal.

 

[Servant222]

When we are all in heaven, it will be emotional to see all the aborted foetuses who will come face to face with their parents and say.......


"I forgive you."

 

[jad123]

When we are all in heaven, it will be emotional to see all the aborted foetuses who will come face to face with their parents and say.......


"I forgive you."

Thats if their parents are in Heaven.

 

[Sojourner<><]

I wasn't really going to take it that far. I would think the fact that a sperm is obviously not a nobel prize winner would make the point. potential for X is less valuable than X. that is not to say that it's valueless, but it's not the same either.

Since you're dealing with a person at its earliest stage of development, you're basically saying that a child is not as valuable as a nobel prize winner. That's social darwinism, which is an atheistic belief system that has led to the inhumane treatment of lots of people.

what reasons do you consider selfish?

I can think of a lot of scenarios, but I don't really feel comfortable going into all the details.

 

[Sojourner<><]

Yeah but if you were never born it;s not like you would have cared. Since you would have never existed. Heck if you had been aborted you likely wouldn;t have cared. You can;t apply adult thoughts and emotions to fetus's and unfertilized eggs if you know what I mean.

If we had the technological capabilities, would you volunteer to be aborted?

 

[Calliso]

If we had the technological capabilities, would you volunteer to be aborted?

Umm I wouldn't I am lucky though I have a good life.

 

[Calliso]

When we are all in heaven, it will be emotional to see all the aborted foetuses who will come face to face with their parents and say.......


"I forgive you."

Assuming the fetus;s are there...

 

[Servant222]

Assuming the fetus;s are there...

Why wouldn't they be? Only God can judge.

 

[Calliso]

Why wouldn't they be? Only God can judge.

They might be aborted before they have souls but aye only God knows but people automatically assume they will be there

 

[Calliso]

True...

I think people in comas and mentally retarded people cannot fall into the self awareness realm either. Also many of the elderly that have or are losing their mental faculties fall into to this as well, even if only somewhat for most.

I am sure the person that was blown up by a terrorist never had any thoughts or emotions about their death since the explosion most likely happened without notice and death was instant. And once you are dead I guess it just does not matter anymore?

Then we have the mean people that are never nice... If we cannot give them some kind of drug to be nice then maybe they should be killed quickly and painlessly?

Or the raped woman that hates the world and especially men, wouldn't some of these people be better off dead and not suffering or embittered?

I know i can go on but you see how great killing people that are useless or have a negative impact on society, or those that just don't care would be if they were simply dead. Even offer assisted suicide at schools for students that are suicidal.

How you read my post and then came to those conclusions I have no idea. But a fetus hasn;t even developed the ablity to think or feel emotion or anything like that. The point I was trying to make was simply that people shouldn;t apply thoughts and emotions to fetus's. For instance I can say right now I am glad I was born. But if I had been aborted as a fetus would I have cared? No because I wouldn;t have existed and even if I had a soul and was up in heaven..if Iwas in heaven do you really really think I would be going darn I wish I had been born!....

 

[happyfreak14]

Since you're dealing with a person at its earliest stage of development, you're basically saying that a child is not as valuable as a nobel prize winner. That's social darwinism, which is an atheistic belief system that has led to the inhumane treatment of lots of people.

1) I was leery of using the nobel prize winner extension for exactly that reason. I don't think that; the nobel prize thing kind of grew out of the Harvard graduate analogy used earlier. however, the comparative value of a child and a nobel-prize winner wasn't really the issue, the issue was the comparative value of a sperm. if a sperm is a potential child, but is not a child, then potential =/= existing.
2)that's not Social Darwinism.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

When we are all in heaven, it will be emotional to see all the aborted foetuses who will come face to face with their parents and say.......


"I forgive you."

Indeed!

Thats if their parents are in Heaven

They will be forgiven if they repent...

Assuming the fetus;s are there...

When do you believe we get a soul? (or rather, when does a soul get a body )

 

[LunarPlexus]

Indeed!


They will be forgiven if they repent...



When do you believe we get a soul? (or rather, when does a soul get a body )

OoOoh...this is dangerous territory for me. It depends on what I believe to be the soul and it's a bit hard for me to explain...I'll get back on this one.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

OoOoh...this is dangerous territory for me. It depends on what I believe to be the soul and it's a bit hard for me to explain...I'll get back on this one.

oki