Is a Good Man deemed not Good because his faith is diffrent?

[danclang]

Are you a Christian?

Exactly my point....

 

[Eternal Mindset]

Eternal Mindset, I want to say thanks for the "fore" call. I have comtemplated what eternity would mean. The stick and carrot thing do not work for me. I have no concept of eternity because I do not live in eternity. I am bless to find myself in the current situation that I am in. Human and loving it. I do not look forward to living forever and ever amen.
I realize True worship is to be pure and unincumbered. To worship God in comtemplation of eternal life in heaven is like our attitude when we pay taxes and expect the streets to be maintained and the police to come when called. I say worship your God with every ounce of being and leave it as that. Don't expect more, don't expect anything in return. Give unexpectantly. Love unexpectantly. Worship unexpectantly. Live for God unexpectantly. Some of you may be offended by what I am about to say. But to believe in Jesus Christ as savior and so you may end up in heaven in eternity, is the same as the any other religion in the world which humans (greeks for example) do certain things to appease their gods for personal gain.

If I read your post right, and you are saying that people who 'believe' in Jesus just so they won't go to hell are no different then people of other religions; then I would have to agree with you.


Love is selfless, and unless you love Jesus for who he is, and not for your own gain; then it is selfish, and love is not selfish. Therefore you cannot truly love Jesus if you're just in it for yourself.

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset

 

[danclang]

So I'm not mistaken are you saying that you don't believe Jesus is the Savior or are you merely encouraging us to reflect on our reasons for viewing Christ in the way in which we do, i.e., for selfless or selfish reasons?

Thanks,
God bless

Not really selfless. You have to have some self in everything otherwise there is no being. But yes, my point is to encourage thinking beyond heaven. Throw all humanistic desires out and see if you still will worship God. If there is not heaven, or rather, if God says to you today "you are not going to heaven" how would your life change?

 

[Eternal Mindset]

I was very turned off by the Christian religion for a long time. My main reason for this was because I saw most of those who go about telling everyone they are great Christians often did not so great things. So many times I encountered people who would pray and then use racial slurs in conversation. So many times I saw people in church balancing their check books or some other non important task. So many times did I see people with raised hands in worship, but the second they left the church could care less about the people around them. How selfish, to use religion as a means to bring temporary glorification to yourself; to make you feel good. It was like a lust for religion; a lust for Jesus and God. The problem with lusting after anything is that you miss the real meaning. When you lust for a woman, you miss her mind and spirit. When you lust you are only seeking to gratify yourself and your own needs. It is great to feel great, but is feeling great going to save us?

I know now that there are Christians that see the true meaning of what God teaches.

I read the Bible in order to disprove it. I wanted to justify my disapproval for the actions of people around me. Not in the sense that I could tell them they are wrong because the bible says this, but more so that I could say look what the bible preaches, what good is it.

I realized after reading the Bible that it is not the Bible or the Religion that had it wrong. It was the people. So many people allow the world to influence their religion. That man on TV said to kill them all in the name of the Lord? It must be true! NO.

The Bible and the Christian Religion (Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist religions as well.. plus others.) teach us to be mindful of our time on earth and that we should love and respect each other. We are taught that we must be mindful. We must live a righteous life. We must love and seek peace. We must explore and understand. We must be strong when we are weak and weak when we are strong. We must give to those who are in need.

All of these can be done without the Bible or without Jesus. Some would like to tell you differently. What Jesus gives us is something to be faithful in and something to remind us of what our life is meant to be like. What Jesus gives us is a foundation to build on. He is our rock. He is our goal. We are to live as Jesus lived. Just as a Buddhist is to live as Buddha did. Just as a Muslim is to live as Mohammad did.

We should have faith that in believing in Jesus we will be saved, but part of believing and accepting Jesus is living as Jesus lived.

How can you have faith in Jesus but not have faith that we can live as Jesus lived? The biggest message in the New Testament is that we must worship in action. We must love in action. We must forgive in action. We must give in action. We must be selfless.

In 1 Peter 1:13-17 we read, “Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy (lev. 11:44,45; 19:2 ; 20:7)’ Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.”

In 1 Peter 1:22-23 we read, “Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.”

We learn here that we must obey the truth of Gods law to purify your self and to be saved. Jesus teaches God’s law. Jesus and God are one. So to be pure you must first take action and obey the law of God and then you are fit for salvation through Christ.

However, if we look to Romans 2:6-15 we learn from Paul, “God ‘will give to each person according to what he has done. (Psalm 62:12; Proverbs 24:12).’ To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, now even defending them.)”

This tells me that actions are more important then words and faith is nothing without actions. We are not saved if we sit around saying, “oh, I believe in Jesus and I feel warm in side” and do nothing to obey the Laws of God. Do you think God will really see this ideal selfishness as a saving grace? What Paul is saying to us in the text above is that actions are so important that even if you do not have the law, but by natural desire for good follow them, that you are just as faithful as those who know the law and follow it. If you have faith in and obey the law without having the law or knowing the law are you not in a subconscious way showing your faith in the Teachings of Jesus?

What I also read here is that if you have the law and you know the law but you still fall short of the law you are not saved. Simple faith without action does not bring salvation. What good are you to God if you do not do good for yourself and other creations of God?

I know some of you are now going to rebuke with the line, “we are not perfect and cannot ever truly follow the Law of God without failing” but I tell you to read Deuteronomy 30:1-14. This text reads as follows:

“When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, then the Lord your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The Lord will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your fathers, if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, 'Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?' Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, 'Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?' No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it."

Why do you say it is so difficult to follow God’s Laws when he tells you it is not? It is a matter of faith. Do you have faith in love? Do you have faith in forgiveness? Do you have faith in turning the other cheek? Do you have faith in Jesus?

To enter heaven through Jesus is to take Jesus in your heart. To take Jesus into your heart means to make your self as Jesus was.

Are not those who make themselves as Jesus was, even without knowing, also taking Jesus into their hearts and in so doing are they not also granting themselves salvation?

With all that said. It seems that the most important lesson to learn is to be selfless and to love.

Love does no harm.

I have to agree with you that many Christians are church people, and this saddens me greatly...but I know many more who are dedicated to Christ.

As for nonbelievers entering Heaven; Why would God let someone who denied the sacrifice of His only Son into His home?

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset

 

[Reformationist]

I was very turned off by the Christian religion for a long time. My main reason for this was because I saw most of those who go about telling everyone they are great Christians often did not so great things. So many times I encountered people who would pray and then use racial slurs in conversation. So many times I saw people in church balancing their check books or some other non important task. So many times did I see people with raised hands in worship, but the second they left the church could care less about the people around them. How selfish, to use religion as a means to bring temporary glorification to yourself; to make you feel good. It was like a lust for religion; a lust for Jesus and God. The problem with lusting after anything is that you miss the real meaning. When you lust for a woman, you miss her mind and spirit. When you lust you are only seeking to gratify yourself and your own needs. It is great to feel great, but is feeling great going to save us?

I know now that there are Christians that see the true meaning of what God teaches.

I read the Bible in order to disprove it. I wanted to justify my disapproval for the actions of people around me. Not in the sense that I could tell them they are wrong because the bible says this, but more so that I could say look what the bible preaches, what good is it.

I realized after reading the Bible that it is not the Bible or the Religion that had it wrong. It was the people. So many people allow the world to influence their religion. That man on TV said to kill them all in the name of the Lord? It must be true! NO.

The Bible and the Christian Religion (Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist religions as well.. plus others.) teach us to be mindful of our time on earth and that we should love and respect each other. We are taught that we must be mindful. We must live a righteous life. We must love and seek peace. We must explore and understand. We must be strong when we are weak and weak when we are strong. We must give to those who are in need.

All of these can be done without the Bible or without Jesus. Some would like to tell you differently. What Jesus gives us is something to be faithful in and something to remind us of what our life is meant to be like. What Jesus gives us is a foundation to build on. He is our rock. He is our goal. We are to live as Jesus lived. Just as a Buddhist is to live as Buddha did. Just as a Muslim is to live as Mohammad did.

We should have faith that in believing in Jesus we will be saved, but part of believing and accepting Jesus is living as Jesus lived.

How can you have faith in Jesus but not have faith that we can live as Jesus lived? The biggest message in the New Testament is that we must worship in action. We must love in action. We must forgive in action. We must give in action. We must be selfless.

In 1 Peter 1:13-17 we read, “Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy (lev. 11:44,45; 19:2 ; 20:7)’ Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.”

In 1 Peter 1:22-23 we read, “Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.”

We learn here that we must obey the truth of Gods law to purify your self and to be saved. Jesus teaches God’s law. Jesus and God are one. So to be pure you must first take action and obey the law of God and then you are fit for salvation through Christ.

However, if we look to Romans 2:6-15 we learn from Paul, “God ‘will give to each person according to what he has done. (Psalm 62:12; Proverbs 24:12).’ To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, now even defending them.)”

This tells me that actions are more important then words and faith is nothing without actions. We are not saved if we sit around saying, “oh, I believe in Jesus and I feel warm in side” and do nothing to obey the Laws of God. Do you think God will really see this ideal selfishness as a saving grace? What Paul is saying to us in the text above is that actions are so important that even if you do not have the law, but by natural desire for good follow them, that you are just as faithful as those who know the law and follow it. If you have faith in and obey the law without having the law or knowing the law are you not in a subconscious way showing your faith in the Teachings of Jesus?

What I also read here is that if you have the law and you know the law but you still fall short of the law you are not saved. Simple faith without action does not bring salvation. What good are you to God if you do not do good for yourself and other creations of God?

I know some of you are now going to rebuke with the line, “we are not perfect and cannot ever truly follow the Law of God without failing” but I tell you to read Deuteronomy 30:1-14. This text reads as follows:

“When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, then the Lord your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The Lord will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your fathers, if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, 'Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?' Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, 'Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?' No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it."

Why do you say it is so difficult to follow God’s Laws when he tells you it is not? It is a matter of faith. Do you have faith in love? Do you have faith in forgiveness? Do you have faith in turning the other cheek? Do you have faith in Jesus?

To enter heaven through Jesus is to take Jesus in your heart. To take Jesus into your heart means to make your self as Jesus was.

Are not those who make themselves as Jesus was, even without knowing, also taking Jesus into their hearts and in so doing are they not also granting themselves salvation?

With all that said. It seems that the most important lesson to learn is to be selfless and to love.

Love does no harm.

Well, this is a very long post and I feel that it is pertinent to address the themes in your post rather than each individual point. It seems one of the predominant themes in this thread, for you, is that of the efficacy of a dead faith. You keep asking what good is a faith that does not produce works. You clearly understand that it is of no good to us. The mistake you are making is not with regard to whether it is or is not beneficial to us. You are right that a dead faith is of no value to us, at least salvitically. Where you seem to get off track is in why it is of no value to us salvitically. I always find it strange that so much is made out of the faith alone vs. faith plus works debate. On both sides of the "vs." there seem to be many that consider a synonymous faith and, much like fractional math, cross out the faith portion of the equation so that they may analyze the rest of the opposition's position. This, of course, only leads to argument. No "faith alone" proponant that I know of claims that works are of no value or that our faith can be "true faith" if it doesn't produce works. Most "faith plus works" proponants merely seek to avoid equating the type of faith they believe saves us with this "dead faith" of which James speaks. In their efforts they say that we are saved by "faith plus works" or a "faith that is perfected by our works." The problem with the latter position is that it flies directly in the face of so much Scripture that those on the other side of the equation go to the other extreme to avoid proclaiming that their works are, in any way, a basis for their salvation. The problem with this is that, in their efforts to not elevate the role of their own works in their salvation, they often seem to act as if "true faith" really could be true without works.

I don't seek to facilitate a compromise between these radically different views. I merely think that much of the debate results from people misunderstanding the opposing view and just going with the flow of their particular denomination's doctrinal position rather than trying to figure out what the Gospel is actually talking about when it says "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." This, of course, leads to the seemingly eternal debate about the apparent paradox between James' statement, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only" and Paul's statement, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." The thing that so often seems to be overlooked is that, while both Paul and James appeal to Abraham as the basis for their convictions, they are speaking of two entirely different types of justification. Paul is speaking of justification before God, of which our works play no part, while James is speaking of justification before our peers, of which works shows our faith to be true.

Anyway FullyAmbivalent, I totally understand and agree that all Christians, ALL CHRISTIANS, are, at times, hypocritical and I applaud you for recognizing that you should not judge the truth of the Bible based on the disobedience of its readers.

One thing from your post that I wanted to address specifically is the following:

The Bible and the Christian Religion (Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist religions as well.. plus others.) teach us to be mindful of our time on earth and that we should love and respect each other. We are taught that we must be mindful. We must live a righteous life. We must love and seek peace. We must explore and understand. We must be strong when we are weak and weak when we are strong. We must give to those who are in need.

All of these can be done without the Bible or without Jesus. Some would like to tell you differently.

Though all people are naturally capable, to some degree, of outward compliance with virtues that we often equate to the Bible, something I call "civic righteousness," these traits, while admirable, are of no salvitic benefit unless they are based upon and motivated by a love for the One, true God.

And lastly:

What Jesus gives us is something to be faithful in and something to remind us of what our life is meant to be like. What Jesus gives us is a foundation to build on. He is our rock. He is our goal. We are to live as Jesus lived. Just as a Buddhist is to live as Buddha did. Just as a Muslim is to live as Mohammad did.

Jesus does set an example for us that we should strive for, though we can never attain true and perfect obedience this side of Heaven. One thing I want to make abundantly clear though is that Jesus is more than just our example. He is the Savior of all whom God has called in Him. You seem to espouse some type of pluralism and, though I am sure it is a noble sentiment that motivates you, equating obedient discipleship to Christ with that of a Buddhist or a Muslim, idolatrous religions that worship false gods, it is blasphemy and should never be uttered from the lips of a Christian.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Exactly my point....

I'm sorry. I must have missed it. What's your point?

 

[Reformationist]

If there is not heaven, or rather, if God says to you today "you are not going to heaven" how would your life change?

I wish I could say that I would acknowledge that my Lord deserves my fealty regardless of whether it results in everlasting glory and that I would continue to worship Him faithfully but I don't think that would be fully the truth. I pray that the Lord would give me the grace to be an obedient disciple regardless of whether there was something in it that benefits me but I am sure, if I'm being honest, I'd feel very depressed and despondant. I'm sure that reveals that there is quite a bit of selfishness within me but even that is to my benefit. It shows me, to a greater degree, how far I've fallen and how self-centered my views of the Gospel truly are.

God bless

 

[danclang]

I wish I could say that I would acknowledge that my Lord deserves my fealty regardless of whether it results in everlasting glory and that I would continue to worship Him faithfully but I don't think that would be fully the truth. I pray that the Lord would give me the grace to be an obedient disciple regardless of whether there was something in it that benefits me but I am sure, if I'm being honest, I'd feel very depressed and despondant. I'm sure that reveals that there is quite a bit of selfishness within me but even that is to my benefit. It shows me, to a greater degree, how far I've fallen and how self-centered my views of the Gospel truly are.

God bless

You are so much closer to grace then you think. That's one of my turning points. I realized the "going to heaven" thing was why I believed. I bought into it because of "what's in it for me". Clarity came upon me. Heaven does not matter. I live in the here and now. All I know is God loves his creation. I then must love God's people. This means, I must set an example of who Christ is. Reformationist: you are closer to enlightenment than you think. God bless you.

 

[Reformationist]

God bless you.

Thank you. God bless you too.

 

[FullyAmbivalent]

Quoting scripture is narrow minded?

No... I never said quoting scripture is narrow minded. If have you not noticed I do a bit of it myself in my entries. What I think is narrow minded is that you, without any knowledge of buddhism can so quickly talk about it as if you know what it is about. Read proverbs 8 and 9. We are told to explore and seek out knowledge and wisdom. Without knowledge of the world we can not have true wisdom. The world is God's, so are you not seeking out knowledge of God?

I'm sorry, but now I'm going to be blatantly narrow minded since you've taken this to disregarding scripture as "narrow minded" in exchange for some book; Why would I waste $14 on a stupid book written by someone who is going to die (if they haven't already) when I have another book inspired by God (who is, alive, and always will be).

The book I suggested you read is written by a Buddhist Monk who also prays to Christ. The book explains how you can apply the Buddhist practices of mental discipline to help to better understand your faith and bring you closer to God. I think you have a slightly wrong idea about what Buddhism is and is not. If you wish to live in ignorance, that is your choice. But I wish you would at least try to gain some understanding of the rest of the world. We are taught to love everyone. One step to truly loving is to truly understand.

And yes, I have read into buddhism. Some of it's followers are very nice people, but that's all they are, and all they ever can be: nice people.
How can someone recieve the gift of salvation if they won't accept it?
They can't.

If you're trying to say they don't need Jesus to be saved, then your saying Jesus was a fool...why would God's son come to Earth and live a perfect life to die a horrible death if it wasn't necessary?
Only a fool would do that.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1161368
That is a post I made on the subject. Please take the time to read it and respond. I enjoy your feed back because it forces me to look and think. Which is never a bad thing.

Please, never, ever again, tell me that quoting scripture is "narrow minded", or that I should look to a book other than the Bible for religious advice. I can honestly tell you I have been deeply offended by your disregard for scripture, and for treating me like an incompetant fool.

My intention was never to offend you and I am sorry that I did. My intention also was never to say that quoting scripture was narrow minded.

Please read my post and consider what I have said.

I always do. Please keep challanging what I write so that I have the oppertunity to learn and explore my knowledge and faith.

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset [/QUOTE]

 

[FullyAmbivalent]

Why would we look into Buddhism? It's an idolatrous belief system that avails for nothing except condemnation.

Why are you so quick to Judge and condemn when it was said by our Lord, "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn. and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37 NIV)

Are you trying to draw a parallel, or give credence to a system of belief that draws a parallel, between the One, true God and an idol?

Why would you not expand your knowledge of other religions and of the world? Why be ignorant? To learn about something does not mean you are giving up your own belief. Buddhist do not worship idols my friend. Buddhist practice a system of morals and disciplines to allow themselves to search deep into their minds and souls so that they can become close with the universe as a whole (God). A Buddhist is taught to be moral and to never stop seeking knowledge and wisdom. I think it is possible to practice in the Buddhist method and still accept Christ as your savior and to follow the teachings of the bible, which are very similar to the teachings of Buddhism. I suggest you learn about something before you speak about it. Do remember that it is a sin to bring false witness.

Can a blind man lead a blind man?

 

[FullyAmbivalent]

If it was it was very unclear. You said, "The definition of the word Gentile during the time Paul was teaching and during the times of Jesus, the archaic definition, is a Pagan or a Heathen. What is a Pagan? A Pagan is one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. It is also one who has no religion. What is a Heathen? A Heathen is one who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam." So, according to you, a Gentile, during the time of Paul, was an athiest or an idol worshiper. That is far from being the same thing as "anyone who is not a Jew."

God bless

I was explaining how the word Gentile did not mean just a Christian. That it means everyone not a Jew. At the time the followers of Jesus were still considered Jews. They still considered themselves as Jews. They were known as the ones who follow The Way. The reason I was making this point was because in an offline discussion on the topic someone argue to me that a Gentile was a Christian. Which it is not... at least not only a Christian. Depending on which definition you use.

 

[FullyAmbivalent]

He says that they will not be told when they ascend to Heaven, and that they do not need to travel in search of a law to keep; because the law is in themselves (their conscience).
We can all follow His laws for they are inside of ourselves, but no one is perfect; all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset

We are told in Deuteronomy 30:11-12 that, it "is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach" and what that it is, is the Law of God. We are being told that it is not too difficult to follow the Law of God. It is not beyond us. In the next line we read, "It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, 'who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?'" What this is saying is that we have no excuse not to follow the law because the law is written here on earth and in our hearts.

 

[FullyAmbivalent]

Love is important, but without accepting the gift of salvation, they are not clean of sin, and God cannot accept them into Heaven.

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset

Love is the most important.

1 Corinthians 13:13 "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

It is important to have faith and hope but it is most important to love.

 

[FullyAmbivalent]

Jesus does set an example for us that we should strive for, though we can never attain true and perfect obedience this side of Heaven. One thing I want to make abundantly clear though is that Jesus is more than just our example. He is the Savior of all whom God has called in Him. You seem to espouse some type of pluralism and, though I am sure it is a noble sentiment that motivates you, equating obedient discipleship to Christ with that of a Buddhist or a Muslim, idolatrous religions that worship false gods, it is blasphemy and should never be uttered from the lips of a Christian.

I believe I addressed that in the next line

We should have faith that in believing in Jesus we will be saved, but part of believing and accepting Jesus is living as Jesus lived.

What I meant by this is that we should accept Christ as our savior. I see now that I did not make that very clear or at least did not make a stronger point of it.


However, Thank You for your detailed reponse. My Goal in taking part in this forum and posting my ideas and views (as radical as some might be) are so that I can learn and grow as a person. So I really respect it when someone takes the time to point out where I might be wrong so that I can do future research on it.

 

[Reformationist]

Why are you so quick to Judge and condemn when it was said by our Lord, "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn. and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37 NIV)

You're kidding right? We are not told not to judge idolatry as idolatry. Luke 6:37 doesn't have anything to do with that and your quoting it completely out of context isn't going to help your credibility. In Luke 6:37 Jesus is warning against the hypocrisy of those who condemn others for what they themselves are guilty of, and the failure to show mercy.

Why would you not expand your knowledge of other religions and of the world?

I never said their was anything wrong with that. I was talking about the inanity of viewing these idolatrous religions as parallels or equally credible as Christianity.

Why be ignorant?

I don't advocate ignorance though I can rest assured knowing that if I never learn anything of Buddhism I'll not suffer in how I worship the One, true God.

To learn about something does not mean you are giving up your own belief.

Again, if you are merely approaching it from a scholastic perspective, for the purpose of witnessing to them then, by all means, familiarize yourself with their heresy.

Buddhist do not worship idols my friend.

LOL! Buddhists do worship idols. If you think otherwise then you know very little about Christianity.

Buddhist practice a system of morals and disciplines to allow themselves to search deep into their minds and souls so that they can become close with the universe as a whole (God).

The universe as a whole (God)? The universe isn't God. The universe is a creation of God. Seriously, do you even know anything about Christianity? You seem very pluralistic in your Christian view. Do you think Buddhists believe in the same God that Christians do?

A Buddhist is taught to be moral and to never stop seeking knowledge and wisdom. I think it is possible to practice in the Buddhist method and still accept Christ as your savior and to follow the teachings of the bible, which are very similar to the teachings of Buddhism. I suggest you learn about something before you speak about it.

LOL! FullyAmbivalent, you make it very clear that you are not a Christian, or at least not a very learned one. One cannot accept Christ as their Savior, follow the teachings of the Bible, and practice "in the Buddhist method." Christianity and Buddhism are antithetical because they espouse two different Gods.

Do remember that it is a sin to bring false witness.

Tell you what, I'll continue to know that Buddhism is idolatry and you can keep trying to equate the two because they share similar moral characteristics (except for that whole Jesus thing) and we'll leave it up to God who is bringing false witness. I'm sure you won't like the outcome.

Can a blind man lead a blind man?

Don't have a clue why you'd ask this.

 

[danclang]

LOL! Buddhists do worship idols. If you think otherwise then you know very little about Christianity.

LOL, Reformationist you are misinformed. True Buddhism (the things that Buddha taught) has nothing to do with worship! No gods, nothing. He is a philosopher. Never claim to be deity or demanded to be treated as one.

 

[Reformationist]

LOL, Reformationist you are misinformed. True Buddhism (the things that Buddha taught) has nothing to do with worship! No gods, nothing. He is a philosopher. Never claim to be deity or demanded to be treated as one.

Idolatry isn't just worshipping false gods. It's also not properly worshipping the true God. Buddhism espouses things that are completely contrary to what the Word of God states. If you think you can submit that the Bible is true and Buddhism is true, when they often espouse contrary views, then you are misinformed.

God bless

 

[danclang]

Idolatry isn't just worshipping false gods. It's also not properly worshipping the true God. Buddhism espouses things that are completely contrary to what the Word of God states. If you think you can submit that the Bible is true and Buddhism is true, when they often espouse contrary views, then you are misinformed.

God bless

What specific thing did Buddha espouses that's contrary to what Jesus espouses?

 

[Eternal Mindset]

LOL, Reformationist you are misinformed. True Buddhism (the things that Buddha taught) has nothing to do with worship! No gods, nothing. He is a philosopher. Never claim to be deity or demanded to be treated as one.

That is very true.
As a matter of fact, while he was sitting under a tree for 3 days, he was asked what he was doing; his reply was "Seeking the truth."

Unforunately, he created a 'truth' to explain what his life was missing.

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset