Is a Contiguous Count of Daniel’s 70 Weeks found in New Testament Writings?

[3 Resurrections]

You have the flood before 70AD?

It's not the same "flood" under consideration. Many times in the OT a "flood" was symbolism for an overwhelming force or an army sweeping through and overcoming a group of people, a city, or a nation. Try Jeremiah 47:2 for one, which was a prophecy against the Philistines before Pharaoh came against Gaza. "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl. At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong horses, at the rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, ..."

The particular "flood" sent by the Dragon in Revelation 12 was the almost-immediate persecution launched against them by the Jewish leadership who hated Christ and His followers. We know that those who fled Jerusalem during this persecution were scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, preaching the word (Acts 8:1-4). This was the "woman" (as the early church's Jewish believers) fleeing into her place in the literal wilderness of Judea for that "time, times, and half a time". In other words, for the last 3 and 1/2 years of the 70th week while the New Covenant was still being confirmed with "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" to whom Christ had initially concentrated His earthly ministry. Because, as Paul and Barnabas once said to the Jews in Acts 13:46, "it was necessary that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken unto you" - "To the Jew FIRST, and also to the Greek" - to whom Paul's evangelistic ministry was then concentrated after the 70th week had expired.

Saul's / Paul's miraculous conversion was what "swallowed up" that "flood" of persecution sent by the Dragon. But the "flood" in Daniel 9:26 took place on a different occasion, because that "flood" was NOT swallowed up. The city and the sanctuary of Jerusalem were overcome by a "flood" of "desolations" (plural) and "abominations" (plural) that continued "till the end of the war". Those "desolations" were caused by "the abominable armies" (plural) of Messiah the Prince's own people who waged war against their own countrymen (Zealots versus their own fellow Jews, which ravaged the city and sanctuary during those AD 66-70 years).

The AD 66-70 years fulfilling the "Days of Vengeance" and Jerusalem's destruction were not completed during Daniel's 70th week. The 70th week was only said to "seal up the vision and prophecy" (or to reserve those prophecies) that predicted Jerusalem's fated destruction at her final end. Those prophecies "sealed up" during the 70th week would later have those seals broken open and fulfilled by the time the city was torn down to the last stone. It was Christ's generation of unbelieving Jews who did not receive Him that "sealed up" the prophecy of their eventual fated destruction, and which was fulfilled when those events "shattered the power of the holy people" (Daniel 12:7) before that generation had died.

 

[Timtofly]

AD30 to AD34 - the ministry of the apostles to Judea and Samaria as Jesus commanded. Then the gospel was sent to the Gentiles. The 70 weeks determined for Israel was over.

Except for the Messiah Prince part. There was no Prince appearance. The 70 weeks are not over until Jesus fulfills the Prince part.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:"

Having the full 7 years without Jesus in the first century is just as bad as 7 years without Jesus at the Second Coming.

Gabriel never mentioned the 70th week. He only defined the 70th week as being Messiah the Prince.

 

[Timtofly]

It's not the same "flood" under consideration. Many times in the OT a "flood" was symbolism for an overwhelming force or an army sweeping through and overcoming a group of people, a city, or a nation. Try Jeremiah 47:2 for one, which was a prophecy against the Philistines before Pharaoh came against Gaza. "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl. At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong horses, at the rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, ..."

The particular "flood" sent by the Dragon in Revelation 12 was the almost-immediate persecution launched against them by the Jewish leadership who hated Christ and His followers. We know that those who fled Jerusalem during this persecution were scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, preaching the word (Acts 8:1-4). This was the "woman" (as the early church's Jewish believers) fleeing into her place in the literal wilderness of Judea for that "time, times, and half a time". In other words, for the last 3 and 1/2 years of the 70th week while the New Covenant was still being confirmed with "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" to whom Christ had initially concentrated His earthly ministry. Because, as Paul and Barnabas once said to the Jews in Acts 13:46, "it was necessary that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken unto you" - "To the Jew FIRST, and also to the Greek" - to whom Paul's evangelistic ministry was then concentrated after the 70th week had expired.

Saul's / Paul's miraculous conversion was what "swallowed up" that "flood" of persecution sent by the Dragon. But the "flood" in Daniel 9:26 took place on a different occasion, because that "flood" was NOT swallowed up. The city and the sanctuary of Jerusalem were overcome by a "flood" of "desolations" (plural) and "abominations" (plural) that continued "till the end of the war". Those "desolations" were caused by "the abominable armies" (plural) of Messiah the Prince's own people who waged war against their own countrymen (Zealots versus their own fellow Jews, which ravaged the city and sanctuary during those AD 66-70 years).

The AD 66-70 years fulfilling the "Days of Vengeance" and Jerusalem's destruction were not completed during Daniel's 70th week. The 70th week was only said to "seal up the vision and prophecy" (or to reserve those prophecies) that predicted Jerusalem's fated destruction at her final end. Those prophecies "sealed up" during the 70th week would later have those seals broken open and fulfilled by the time the city was torn down to the last stone. It was Christ's generation of unbelieving Jews who did not receive Him that "sealed up" the prophecy of their eventual fated destruction, and which was fulfilled when those events "shattered the power of the holy people" (Daniel 12:7) before that generation had died.

The flood in Revelation 12 is after the 5th Trumpet when the rebel angels are released from the pit, and have to be thrown out of heaven again. Are you saying all the Trumpets sounded within years of the Cross itself?

 

[3 Resurrections]

I personally see multiple similarities between John the Baptist and the 2 witnesses. Do you think it’s possible that John the Baptist preached for a literal 1,260 days before being put in prison?

It's quite possible that the duration of John the Baptist's ministry lasted 1,260 days, or 3 and 1/2 years. But that does not make him the fulfillment of being the 2 witnesses, since those two men were two former high priests who were specifically said to "stand before the Lord" - a phrase which Ezekiel 44:15 applied to the high priest role alone. And John the Baptist was not slain and left unburied in the street of Jerusalem as happened to the two witnesses. The disciples took up the body of John and buried it. Also, the two witnesses were going to be slain by the Scarlet Beast which in John the Revelator's days was not in existence at the time, but was soon "about to arise out of the abyss and go into destruction".

I remember reading someone's comment that, during those last days of the first century, there were many periods of "broken 7's" occurring - the symbolism of the perfection of the number 7 being fractured into broken halves. I thought that was a rather interesting perspective, since not all those periods are necessarily referring to the same time on the calendar of "42 months", "time, times, and a half time", and "1,260 days". If I'm not mistaken, I believe this is a point that CG has made, yes?

 

[Douggg]

The 70th week was only said to "seal up the vision and prophecy" (or to reserve those prophecies) that predicted Jerusalem's fated destruction at her final end.

To "seal up the vision and prophecy" is about the little horn person time of the end Daniel 8 vision. Prophecy is all the prophecies regarding the time of the end, that Daniel and his contemporary Ezekiel were given by God.

The path to the little horn's destruction is...

the little horn > the prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast.

As the Antichrist, he will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle, by having the law read to the nation of Israel from the temple mount, in his presence. That's what will begin the 7 year 70th week.

As the beast, he will be broken without human hand, by Jesus at the end of the 7 year 70th week.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The flood in Revelation 12 is after the 5th Trumpet when the rebel angels are released from the pit, and have to be thrown out of heaven again. Are you saying all the Trumpets sounded within years of the Cross itself?

The fifth trumpet does not include "rebel angels". It involved the literal five months of the tormenting treatment the Jewish people experienced at the hands of the Roman soldiers under Gessius Florus's command. That corrupt governor of Judea was doing his best to instigate a Jewish rebellion against Rome to distract Rome from looking into his own thefts and corrupt dealings. His harsh treatment of the Jews during that five months accomplished that very purpose, resulting in the Jewish Zealot rebellion which broke out around September of AD 66. The next sixth trumpet followed within a year or two of that, and the seventh trumpet judgment followed "quickly" after that one (Revelation 11:14).

The description of the "locusts" in Revelation 9's fifth trumpet judgment is a spot-on match for the Roman soldiers' actions, weaponry, and even the particular Roman helmet style of that specific time period in AD 66. Josephus recorded the tormenting actions of Gessius Florus and his soldiers taking place during these five months that made the Jewish people miserable enough to long for death to relieve them of those torments. It lasted from May until September of AD 66 (at the time of year when ordinarily locust plagues tend to occur in that zone anyway).

The "flood" of Revelation 12 does not chronologically follow that of chapter 9-11's prophecies. We know this because Revelation 12 is an interpolation which begins with describing Christ's birth and then His ascension to His Father's throne. Satan's casting out of heaven to earth with his angels occurred at Christ's resurrection-day ascension, followed almost immediately by his angry persecution of the early church. Satan was wasting no time, since he knew he had only a "short time" left to operate in the world after losing the war in heaven in AD 33.

 

[3 Resurrections]

the little horn > the prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast.

You are conflating all of these identities into one character, which can't be done. Except for the Antichrist being the "revealed Man of Sin", these other characters' activities and origins are different from each other.

 

[Douggg]

You are conflating all of these identities into one character, which can't be done. Except for the Antichrist being the "revealed Man of Sin", these other characters' activities and origins are different from each other.

In Daniel 8, about the little horn in v25.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

The Prince of princes, the messiah, is Jesus, yes ?

In Revelation 19:19...

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

The one who sat on the horse is Jesus, yes?

The little horn in Daniel 8:25 becomes the beast of Revelation. The part in v25 about him standing up (an idiom for makes war) against the Prince of princes is what he, as the beast, does in Revelation 19:19.

the little horn > the prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast.

As the little horn in the path to his destruction - he is the leader of the EU.

As the beast - he is the dictator of the EU and the world.

______________________________________________________________

It is just a matter of matching up the actions he does and when.

 

[Douggg]

You are conflating all of these identities into one character, which can't be done. Except for the Antichrist being the "revealed Man of Sin", these other characters' activities and origins are different from each other.

It is just a matter of matching up the actions he does and when. (as the little horn and the beast - I explained in my previous post)



the little horn > the prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast.

Following Gog/Magog, as the prince who shall come, he enters the middle east and Israel, from the north and west, Greece, the geographical location, in Daniel 8:9.

He does so on the premise of peace in the region, Daniel 8:25.

The Jews will think he is the messiah. And he is anointed the King of Israel becoming the Antichrist.

As the Antichrist, false messiah, he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle, Daniel 9:27, Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Then in the middle part of the 7 years, he stops the daily sacrifice, Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 8:12.

He commits the transgression of desolation, Daniel 8:13, of 2Thessalonians2:4, revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all to the Jews. The Jews will turn to Jesus.



It is just a matter of matching up the actions he does and when.

 

[Douggg]

You are conflating all of these identities into one character, which can't be done. Except for the Antichrist being the "revealed Man of Sin", these other characters' activities and origins are different from each other.

the little horn > the prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast.


the little horn > the prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast.

The functions in blue involve Israel.

The functions in red involve the EU and the EU/world.

 

[Douggg]

You are conflating all of these identities into one character, which can't be done. Except for the Antichrist being the "revealed Man of Sin", these other characters' activities and origins are different from each other.

the little horn > the prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast.

Transitional roles.

The one in blue is his transition from being the little horn to becoming the Antichrist.

The one in red is his transition from being the Antichrist to becoming the beast.

 

[3 Resurrections]

In Daniel 8, about the little horn in v25.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

The Prince of princes, the messiah, is Jesus, yes ?

NO, the Messiah is not in that context of Daniel 8. That "Prince of princes" or the "prince of the host" in Daniel 8:11 and 25 was going to be the high priest of Israel at the time when the kingdom of Greece was in power. The context of Daniel 8:20-25 limits this particular prophecy to "the latter time of THEIR kingdom...", which spoke of the four kings who would stand up out of that Greek nation which Alexander the "first king" would establish. That was when his four generals would divide up that Greek kingdom among themselves after his death.

The "little horn" (or the "strong horn") in this context is Antiochus Epiphanes IV. He is the one who, during "the latter time of their kingdom" (of Greece), labored to "destroy the mighty and the holy people". He is the one who stood up against the high priest of Israel, (the "Prince of princes"), and was finally "broken without hand" by dying ignominiously of disgusting diseases caused by a fall out of his chariot.

You are mixing up the Daniel 8 prophecy related to Antiochus Epiphanes and the Greek empire with the other Daniel 9:24-27prophecy regarding the time for the coming of the Messiah - "the Prince who shall come" and "confirm the covenant with many" of Daniel's people for that last 70th week from AD 30-37. The LORD was the "messenger of the covenant" (Malachi 3:1) to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel"; it was not an Antichrist who made a covenant during that last 70th week.

It was Christ's own people who rejected Him - "the people of the Prince who shall come" - who would be responsible for desolating both the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary by the presence of their "abominable armies". This was the Zealot factions within Jerusalem and the civil war they began against their own people which caused the prophesied "desolations" until the "end of the war" when the Romans gave the final blow to the city.

 

[Douggg]

The "little horn" (or the "strong horn") in this context is Antiochus Epiphanes IV.

No, it is not talking about Antiochus in Daniel 8.

Antiochus was not time of the end. The vision of the little horn person is time of the end. Daniel 8:17

Antiohcus is in Daniel 11:31, but he is before the time of the end verse 35. V35 the time of end is appointed into the future beyond Antiochus.


31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Antiochus was not time of the end. The vision of the little horn person is time of the end. Daniel 8:17

Antiohcus is in Daniel 11:31, but he is before the time of the end verse 35. V35 the time of end is appointed into the future beyond Antiochus.

But which particular "end" is that Daniel 11:35 verse referring to? You are guessing it is the end of the world as we know it, but it's not. There is more than just one "ending" point in history, you know. The "last end of the indignation" in Daniel 8:19 was the ending point of the Greek empire. It was at this time of "indignation" when the Jews as a "mighty and holy people" were destroyed by the corrupting influence of Antiochus Epiphanes, and his army's actions which stood on the part of Antiochus and polluted and desolated the city of Jerusalem.

The context of Daniel 8's prophecy of that "little horn" limits its fulfillment to the "latter time of THEIR kingdom" (Daniel 8:23), which specifically had just been speaking of the latter time of the 4 kings and the ending years of the Greek empire. This Greek empire ended and gave place to the 4th empire of Rome. So, the Daniel 8 prophecy of the "little horn" in that context must be referring to a fulfillment taking place before the "latter time" of the Greek empire had ended and the Roman empire had emerged.

 

[Douggg]

But which particular "end" is that Daniel 11:35 verse referring to?

"time of the end"in Daniel 11:35 is referring to when the willful king in verse 36 - the end times beast - meets his end in Daniel 11:45.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

[3 Resurrections]

"time of the end"in Daniel 11:35 is referring to when the willful king in verse 36 - the end times beast - meets his end in Daniel 11:45.

Both the Scarlet Beast of Revelation 17 and the Land Beast of Revelation 13 already met their end together back in AD 70's Lake of Fire in Jerusalem. The Land Beast was composed of the religious leadership of Israel - the two-horned Sadducee and Pharisee members of the Sanhedrin leadership who compelled their own people to give homage to the Roman Sea Beast via the Tyrian shekel with its abominable images. They "spoke like a dragon" by their continual lying that Christ accused them of. We know that this Land Beast is long gone since the members of the priesthood and that whole institution was physically done away with in the AD 70 era.

Together with the Judean Land Beast, the Judean Scarlet Beast was also thrown into Jerusalem's Lake of Fire during the city's second death in the AD 66-70 era. John said in Revelation 17:8 that the Scarlet Beast was "about to arise from the abyss and go into destruction". That meant BOTH the re-emergence AND the destruction of the Judean Scarlet Beast were soon about to take place after John wrote that statement.

If I wrote "I am about to get up and have a cup of coffee", you would understand that BOTH of those things would be taking place at a time not long after I spoke those words. It's the same thing with the Scarlet Beast which was BOTH "about to arise", AND then soon after to "go into destruction" - in John's days - not our future.

 

[Rachel20]

Daniel 9:26 is the gap. The only requirement of 9:24 is that there would be 70 weeks determined upon Daniel's people and holy city (the Jews and Jerusalem). No requirement they be contiguous. The 70 AD destruction occurs in this gap and Jesus gives the reason for it in Luke 19:44 - because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation (they should have known because of Daniel's prophecy). He also shows the gap himself when, in Luke 4:17-21, he does not quote the entire passage from Isaiah 61:1-3, but stops at "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord". The "day of vengeance of our God" would not be proclaimed until the 70th week, after which would be the need for comforting those who mourn in Zion because of Jacobs trouble.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The "day of vengeance of our God" would not be proclaimed until the 70th week, after which would be the need for comforting those who mourn in Zion because of Jacobs trouble.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Where do you find the "day of vengeance of our God" fulfilled within those six itemized terms within the 70 weeks time frame? It's not there.

The stipulated terms include "sealing up the vision and prophecy". To "seal up" is to reserve it for times further down the road. The "unsealing" of those visions and prophecy would be outside the parameters of the intact 70 weeks.

Christ as the "messenger of the covenant" was the one who "confirmed the covenant for one week" with Daniels' people from AD 30 through AD 37; the first 3-1/2 years in person, and the last 3-1/2 years by His apostles. When the majority in Israel would not receive Him, their fate was "sealed up" within that 70th week. It would later be unsealed and judgment would be poured out on those who had rejected their Messiah.

 

[Rachel20]

Where do you find the "day of vengeance of our God" fulfilled within those six itemized terms within the 70 weeks time frame?

As part of the consummation (end) of the desolation in v27:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Isaiah 63:1-4

Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Rev 19:11-14

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[3 Resurrections]

As part of the consummation (end) of the desolation in v27:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

But there is nothing at all mentioned within the stipulated 6 terms of Daniel 9:24 for that 70 weeks that say anything at all about the "abominable armies" coming to bring desolation and destruction to the city and the sanctuary at their end. That destruction of both the city and the sanctuary came later, beyond the parameters of those six things included within the intact 70 weeks:

#1) "...to finish the transgression,
#2) and to make an end of sins,
#3) and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
#4) and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
#5) and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
#6) and to anoint the most Holy."

These 6 terms say nothing at all about a war going on that would cause a continual overspreading of desolations, leading to a final destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. The prophecy for those final events was given and "sealed up" within the 70 weeks, but it was only unsealed and fulfilled later, after the intact 70 weeks had expired.

All 6 terms of the 70-week prophecy were accomplished by Christ's sacrificial actions in the first half of that 70th week, by which Jesus "caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease". No more after Christ's mid-week AD 33 sacrifice would God regard the blood of animal sacrifices and the temple oblations as a worship requirement.

The next 3-1/2 years of "confirming the covenant" with Daniel's own people was from the middle of AD 33 to AD 37. The majority of the Jews of that generation stubbornly continued to reject Jesus as the Messiah during the Apostles' ministries, and to cling to the expired temple rituals. So, the evangelistic emphasis turned from the Jews at that point and exploded into the Gentile nations of the world, initiated by Paul "the Apostle to the Gentiles", and others who followed in his footsteps.

This is why Paul called Himself "the FIRST of sinners" (protos) in 1 Timothy 1:15, because he was the first herald of the gospel to the Gentiles, leading the evangelistic charge into the nations after the 70th week had finished in AD 37.