Is a Contiguous Count of Daniel’s 70 Weeks found in New Testament Writings?

[Filippus]

It seems to me then, you have no NT Scripture to support your interpretation of Daniel 9:27b. That part involves abominations. In the NT, in regards to abominations, that subject is mentioned in all of the following passages. Matt 24:15, Mark 13:14, Luke 16:15, Rev 17:4, Rev 17:5, and Rev 21:27. None of them are involving context having to do with animal sacrificing continuing unless you want to change your view of Matt 24:15, Mark 13:14, and now propose those do? I don't see you doing that, though. That leaves Luke 16:15, Rev 17:4, Rev 17:5, and Rev 21:27, except none of those are involving animal sacrificing continuing and that being an abomination.

Hi David,

Can the "Dome of the Rock" qualify as a abomination of Temple Mount?

Shalom

 

[jeffweedaman]

Now considering 1.2 million, 2000 years ago in perspective to today, do you think it qualifies as a possible "great tribulation"?

Shalom

Good point.
How more extreme could it have gotten for them?

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

The Messiah's crucifixion and the cessation of sacrifices and oblations took place in the middle of the last 70th week - not at the very end of the 69th week, according to Daniel 9:27.

"And AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off..." That word "AFTER", in and of itself, does not give us an exact time frame for just how long after the 69th week that Christ would be cut off. By your understanding, you would place the crucifixion the very next day after the 69th week had ended, but that is not necessarily the intended meaning. If we only had that single phrase to go by, it could have been at any time whatever after the end of the 69th week when Messiah was "cut off" - even millions of years. But Scripture further clarifies the time of the crucifixion for us by telling us that it would be "in the midst of the week" when sacrifices and oblations would cease. They would cease by being annulled and no longer required for worship. That was when Christ established the New Covenant in His blood and necessarily "changed the law" by changing the high priesthood (Hebrews 7:12). That means an AD 33 crucifixion and resurrection, in the middle of an AD 30-AD 37 final week of Daniel's prophecy.

To anyone else who would think that you and I are merely quibbling about the minutiae in scripture, I would say that this was absolutely critical that Jesus fulfill this specifically-timed prophecy about Himself down to the very letter, in order to confirm His divinity. If He had not done so, then He would have been a false prophet, and we would not need to give heed to a single word He said.

Hi one thing you have right is that the new covenant is certainly brought in. Now if you look at that passage in Jer 31 there are some very curious verses that are linked to the brining in of the new covenant. These verses stand out because Daniel noted that the sanctuary and the city of Jerusalem would be destroyed by the people of a prince who shall come. Amazing prophecy because they were in ruins at the time it was made and he had to be right about them being rebuilt in the 1st place. Jesus was on the same page as he wept for Jerusalem knowing its desolation was coming and also that the temple would be destroyed, taken down so no two stones would touch one another. So the rejection of the new covenant by Israel was the known cause of the destruction of the city and the temple. That is why God knowing this from the beginning would place these verse immediately after the promise of the new covenant.

35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”
37 Thus says the LORD:
“If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD.
38 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor’s line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall beholy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.”

In this passage God affirms Israel will never cease to be a nation in God's eyes nor will he cast them off for all they have done. This is followed with a promise that the city will be built at a time when dead bodies have filled the valleys but it says it will Holy to the LORD and never thrown down again.

Now the 6 things accomplished in the 70 weeks are for Daniels people and the Holy city. It you take this into consideration the city will need be rebuilt after Zech 14 and Armageddon and those dead bodies will be there. It says it will never be thrown down again so this building of the city would have to be after 70 AD. If you forward to Jer 30 which talks about also the rebuilding of the city it is the day of Jacobs trouble and that idea goes into chapter 31 too. There are many passages that show the transformation of Jerusalem and Daniels people that contradict your idea of 70AD.

 

[Filippus]

CG, where in your interpretation of the 70th week is the vision that Gabriel in Daniel 9:23 referred to?

You are missing why it was Gabriel sent to Daniel. You are missing why Gabriel is referred to as the "man" Gabriel. And you are missing what the vision in v23 is about.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

CG, the vision is the time of the end vision Daniel had in Daniel 8 about the little horn person. Who will stop the daily sacrifice. Who will stand up against the Prince of princes. Who will be broke without (human) hand.

The 7 year 70th week is time of the end, regarding the little horn person, as the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26b.

Hi Doug,

You are assuming that he is referring to the vision in Daniel 8, how do you distinguish between the visions?

He is actually referring to Daniel 2 in my view. This explains the kingdoms of Gold, silver, bronze and Iron, which is given more detail in Daniel 7 and then in 8.

Daniel 8:9 specifically refers to the might of the Greek empire and the desecration of the Temple by the Seleucid king Antiochus IV, the little horn.

The time period covered, 2,300 days, works out 6 1/3 years. The reign of the Seleucid king Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) who desecrated the temple in Jerusalem and severely persecuted the Jews from September 171 BC to December 165 BC actually can explain the prophesy.

But this will only be accepted if it does not conflict with your narrative?

When Antiochus died, the Jews purified and rededicated the temple, just as Daniel had predicted. These events are commemorated in the celebration of Hanukkah, confirmed by Jesus.

This explains the little horn in great detail and matches Daniel, but not all people will accept this, because its in conflict with their end time prophesies!

Now in Daniel 9, Daniel saw the 70 years prophesied by Jeremiah (587 BC to 517 BC) and was fasting and praying to receive insight into the restoration of Israel, quoted in verse, verse one placing it in the first year of Darius which is commonly accepted as 522 BC.

Therefore, Daniel 9 occurs +- 5 years before Temple II's re-dedication.

However in Daniel 9 we receive more detail regarding the:

1. The complete Restoration and re-building of Jerusalem. (7 weeks)
   
2. To an anointed one. (62 weeks)
   
3. And a strong covenant with many for one week. (1 week)

So no Doug, CG is'nt missing why it was Gabriel who was sent to Daniel.

But simply explains how you interpret Scripture.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

Timeline of the first few days of the 70th week. (Last days of 69th week until the marriage of Cana.)


View attachment 312546

Thank you CG,

This is really useful.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

#1) "...to finish the transgression,
#2) and to make an end of sins,
#3) and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
#4) and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
#5) and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
#6) and to anoint the most Holy."

#7) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
#8) And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

No, it's not While I am absolutely envious of Christian Gedge's ability to do a great visual timeline, I have a slightly different set of years that the 70-week prophecy delineates for us.


454 BC - The 70 weeks began with Artaxerxes I's decree in Nehemiah 2, during his 20th regnal year (including a co-regency period with his father Xerxes beginning in 474 BC). Jerusalem's wall was built up this year, even during "troublous times" when everyone working on repairing the breaches in the wall had to keep a sword girded on their side for defense against their enemies during the 52-day process.

AD 30 - The beginning of Christ's miraculous ministry started with His first miracle at Cana. (Christ's baptism taking place back in AD 27, with that "season" of time when Satan left Him between AD 27 and 30. The AD 30 date is proved by John 2:20 at Christ's first Passover of His ministry - "Forty-six years was this temple in building...", which was begun by Herod back in 17 BC.)

AD 33 - Christ was "cut off" by His crucifixion, and annulled the sacrifices and oblations in the middle of the AD 30-37 week

AD 37 - God in Jerusalem's temple gave Paul a commission in Acts 22:21 to go to the Gentiles as His "chosen vessel".

Hi, 3 Resurrections,

Like the way you have used Artaxerxes I to calculate 29 AD.

69 Shmita's x 7 = 483 years

483 - 454 BC = 29 AD
454 + 29 = 483

This is also the way I attempted to calculate the 70 Shmita's.

However using Nehemiah 2, as the start of the “Seventy weeks" that are decreed, poses a problem.
Nehemiah only received endorsement letters from Artaxerxes I, see Nehemiah 2:7-8.

Scripture lists three Decrees:

1. Cyrus the King issued the 1st decree, EZRA 6:3.
2. Darius the King issued the 2nd decree, EZRA 6:12.
3. Artaxerxes I the King issued the 3rd decree, EZRA 7:13.

Now, why is this important?

EZRA 7:6 This Ezra came up from Babylon; and he was a skilled scribe in the Law of Moses, which the Lord God of Israel had given. The king (Artaxerxes I) granted him all his request, according to the hand of the Lord his God upon him. 7 Some of the children of Israel, the priests, the Levites, the singers, the gatekeepers, and the Nethinim came up to Jerusalem in the seventh year of King Artaxerxes. 8 And Ezra came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king. 9 On the first day of the first month he began his journey from Babylon, and on the first day of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, according to the good hand of his God upon him.

Most people agree that king Artaxerxes I started his reign in 465 BC.
(Artaxerxes I | king of Persia)

Using the "accession year system" or the "post-dating system" method for the first year of king Artaxerxes I, we determine his first year was 464 BC and his seventh year was 458 BC.

Now looking at CG posts #93, #94.

Timeline of the first few days of the 70th week. (Last days of 69th week until the marriage of Cana.)
View attachment 312546

This confirms that the 70 Shmitas counts start on the 1st of Nisan, the book Ezra specify that the return started on the first day of the first month.

Thanks, CG this is a double confirmation in Scripture!

The first year of the 69 weeks is 457 BC.

483 - 457 = 26 AD
457 BC + 26 AD = 483 (69 Shmita's)

This confirms 1st Nisan 27 AD, as the 1st year of the 70th Shmita!

This makes 27 AD to 33 AD, the 70th Shmita.

This makes 30 AD the 4th year of the 70th Shmita, and the middle of the week where
Jesus shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.

This places 33 AD corresponding to the vision of Peter in Acts, and the calling of
Pauls's ministry to the Gentiles.

Shalom

 

[3 Resurrections]

If you forward to Jer 30 which talks about also the rebuilding of the city it is the day of Jacobs trouble and that idea goes into chapter 31 too. There are many passages that show the transformation of Jerusalem and Daniels people that contradict your idea of 70AD.

Jeremiah 30's "time of Jacob's trouble" after which he would be "delivered out of it" was fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity and the post-exilic return. Many of the prophecies such as this are kidnapped and transported into the future when they have already been fulfilled in the post-exilic return.

 

[3 Resurrections]

However using Nehemiah 2, as the start of the “Seventy weeks" that are decreed, poses a problem.
Nehemiah only received endorsement letters from Artaxerxes I, see Nehemiah 2:7-8.

Those "letters" from Artaxerxes I in Nehemiah 2:7-9 were specifically intended to authorize the provision of materials to build the walls and the gates at Jerusalem. This Nehemiah 2 reference is the only one connected to the terms of Daniel's prophecy that included building a wall and the street in "troublous times", which "troublous times" Nehemiah described in detail. The other earlier three decrees did not accomplish building the wall and the street. Therefore, the Nehemiah 2 letters from Artaxerxes I were the one connected to the beginning of the 70 weeks.

And the co-regency of Artaxerxes I along with his father Xerxes beginning in 474 BC should really be considered. Those who use Ptolemy's canon to arrive at the year starting Artaxerxes I's reign did not include this fact in their dating, unfortunately. Archaeological evidence is there to prove this 474 BC beginning of Artaxerxes I's co-regency. Consequently, the 20th year of his reign in 454 BC would be the start of the 70-week prophecy.

 

[grafted branch]

In this passage God affirms Israel will never cease to be a nation in God's eyes nor will he cast them off for all they have done. This is followed with a promise that the city will be built at a time when dead bodies have filled the valleys but it says it will Holy to the LORD and never thrown down again.

Hi Brian, I would say Jeremiah 31:35-40 doesn’t affirm Israel will remain forever, in fact it affirms the opposite, Israel will cease to be a nation before God.

Jeremiah 31:36 says if the ordinances depart from before me Israel will cease from being a nation before me forever. Revelation 21:23 says New Jerusalem has no need<5532> or business with the sun or moon. Revelation 21:24 has the nations of them which are saved walking in the light of it (New Jerusalem). There still are nations but they are not using the sun or moon.

Jeremiah 31:37 says if heaven above can be measured … in Revelation 21:16 New Jerusalem which was in heaven above was measured.


How can Israel still be considered a nation before God when the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars which were given in Genesis 1:14 are no longer being used and heaven was able to be measured in Revelation 21?

 

[Filippus]

Those "letters" from Artaxerxes I in Nehemiah 2:7-9 were specifically intended to authorize the provision of materials to build the walls and the gates at Jerusalem. This Nehemiah 2 reference is the only one connected to the terms of Daniel's prophecy that included building a wall and the street in "troublous times", which "troublous times" Nehemiah described in detail. The other earlier three decrees did not accomplish building the wall and the street. Therefore, the Nehemiah 2 letters from Artaxerxes I were the one connected to the beginning of the 70 weeks.

And the co-regency of Artaxerxes I along with his father Xerxes beginning in 474 BC should really be considered. Those who use Ptolemy's canon to arrive at the year starting Artaxerxes I's reign did not include this fact in their dating, unfortunately. Archaeological evidence is there to prove this 474 BC beginning of Artaxerxes I's co-regency. Consequently, the 20th year of his reign in 454 BC would be the start of the 70-week prophecy.

Hi 3 Resurrections,

I can see how you get to your conclusion. Can you supply your references for a co-regency?

Even more I agree the Nehemiah 2 letters from Artaxerxes I, were vital for Nehemiah to succeed in his calling to restore Jerusalem. This is clearly required to fulfill the 7 weeks from verse 24 in Daniel.

However the decree plays a vital role in determining the start of the 70 weeks, and the letters are a result of the decree, not the opposite, therefore your claim is elevating the letters to a status above its intended meaning, so I respectfully disagree.

BTW Ptolemy's canon is supported from other sources like the detailed material on this topic, see R.A. Parker and WH. Dubberstein. See below table.

How do you explain Luke 3?

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

Hi Brian, I would say Jeremiah 31:35-40 doesn’t affirm Israel will remain forever, in fact it affirms the opposite, Israel will cease to be a nation before God.

Jeremiah 31:36 says if the ordinances depart from before me Israel will cease from being a nation before me forever. Revelation 21:23 says New Jerusalem has no need<5532> or business with the sun or moon. Revelation 21:24 has the nations of them which are saved walking in the light of it (New Jerusalem). There still are nations but they are not using the sun or moon.

Jeremiah 31:37 says if heaven above can be measured … in Revelation 21:16 New Jerusalem which was in heaven above was measured.


How can Israel still be considered a nation before God when the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars which were given in Genesis 1:14 are no longer being used and heaven was able to be measured in Revelation 21?

Hi grafted branch,

Do you know that the Hebrew language was extinct and revived in the late 19th century? With 9 million speakers of Modern Hebrew of which 5 million are native speakers (2017).

Just look at how Israel was restored, here Brian is correct.

Now the 6 things accomplished in the 70 weeks are for Daniels people and the Holy city. It you take this into consideration the city will need be rebuilt after Zech 14 and Armageddon and those dead bodies will be there.

Hi Brian,

I fail to see how the 70 weeks will be a future event? Specifically how it proves and supports Jesus's ministry, which is a historical event.

Shalom

 

[3 Resurrections]

I can see how you get to your conclusion. Can you supply your references for a co-regency?

This reference would be found in Ussher's "Annals of the World". Check the Editor's comments to Ussher's notes #1177 for 474 BC, and his notes #1228 for the year 454 BC.

One thing you might want to consider also. Once a decree of the Medes and Persians was given (like the decree of Cyrus) it could never be rescinded (Daniel 6:8). So, any decree given after the original Cyrus decree about Jerusalem was essentially repeating the original command and including an addendum to it for additional matters to be taken care of in the further carrying out of that Cyrus decree. So it's not really a matter of the Nehemiah letters taking precedence over the Cyrus decree, since those letters were actually connected with its final fulfillment.

How do you explain Luke 3

Are you asking about the dating of Christ's baptism? Or if the baptism event should be identified as the start of the 70th week?

 

[Filippus]

This reference would be found in Ussher's "Annals of the World". Check the Editor's comments to Ussher's notes #1177 for 474 BC, and his notes #1228 for the year 454 BC.

One thing you might want to consider also. Once a decree of the Medes and Persians was given (like the decree of Cyrus) it could never be rescinded (Daniel 6:8). So, any decree given after the original Cyrus decree about Jerusalem was essentially repeating the original command and including an addendum to it for additional matters to be taken care of in the further carrying out of that Cyrus decree. So it's not really a matter of the Nehemiah letters taking precedence over the Cyrus decree, since those letters were actually connected with its final fulfillment.



Are you asking about the dating of Christ's baptism? Or if the baptism event should be identified as the start of the 70th week?

I am still not convinced about your explanation, the book Ezra is generally overlooked.

Luk3:1?

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

He's revealed before he's cut off though? And v26 says he's cut off after 62 weeks, not 69. So I need to study to see what the missing week of weeks (7x7=49 yrs) is about.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ...

Hi Rachel20,

Just an observation, verse 26 and verse 27 can be split into a "A" and "B", part.

Now verse 26a, appears to address the same content as verse 27a, and 26b appears to address the same content as verse 27b.

Therefore try reading it like this:

26a And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. 27a And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. 26b And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. 27b And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

Now in the 70 week prophesy we can expect the crescendo or high point during the 70th week, which occurred through the death and resurrection of Messiah and if we consider verse 27a it strongly suggest that it occurred in the middle of the 70th week or 30 AD. This is also supported with John's account of the festivals attended by Jesus.

Now if we consider Luke 3:1, Tiberius was co-regent with Caesar Augustus from 12 AD, and Jewish method of counting included the first year even if it was only a month.

Therefore:
12 + 15 = 27 AD

Now Luke 3:23 says Jesus was almost 30 years old, therefore we can summarize Jesus turned 30 after 1 Nisan 27 AD.

Shalom

 

[3 Resurrections]

Now if we consider Luke 3:1, Tiberius was co-regent with Caesar Augustus from 12 AD, and Jewish method of counting included the first year even if it was only a month.

Therefore:
12 + 15 = 27 AD

Now Luke 3:23 says Jesus was almost 30 years old, therefore we can summarize Jesus turned 30 after 1 Nisan 27 AD.

Yes, I agree that AD 27 is the correct date for Christ's baptism. But it is not the year for the beginning of Christ's ministry. A careful examination that compares the gospel accounts reveals that there was a certain "season" between Christ's baptism (when the Devil "left Him for a season") and the beginning year of His ministry in AD 30 with the first miracle at Cana. In between that time, John was "fulfilling his course" of making a people prepared for the Lord's ministry among them.

Acts 24-25 says, "When John had FIRST preached BEFORE His coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. And as John fulfilled his course" (at the end of John's ministry before his imprisonment), "he said, "Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose." At this end of John's ministry, he had already baptized Jesus 3 years before then. That is why John testified to the people in John 1:30-34 of what he had already told them formerly about Jesus, 3 years earlier at Jesus' baptism. "This is He of whom I said, After me" (after John had "fulfilled his course") "cometh a man which is preferred before me...And I have seen, and have borne witness" (3 years earlier) "that this is the Son of God."

John did no miracles by comparison (John 10:41). Against this earlier backdrop of John's preparatory teaching of repentance - with no miracles - Christ's ministry shone forth in a blaze of miraculous signs among the people that caused many to believe on Him, including His disciples (John 2:11 and John 10:41).

Christ Himself announced the beginning of the 70th week in Mark 1:15. This was after John had been put in prison (when he had "fulfilled his course"), when "Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." That was the year AD 30 for the fulfillment of that appointed time. It was the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week when Christ as the "messenger of the covenant" would "confirm the covenant with many" of Daniel's people for that last intact 70th week.

This means Christ was crucified in AD 33 when He was around 36 years old. Truly a "mid-life crisis" took place for Him.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi grafted branch,

Do you know that the Hebrew language was extinct and revived in the late 19th century? With 9 million speakers of Modern Hebrew of which 5 million are native speakers (2017).

Just look at how Israel was restored, here Brian is correct.



Hi Brian,

I fail to see how the 70 weeks will be a future event? Specifically how it proves and supports Jesus's ministry, which is a historical event.

Shalom

Hi I will try to paint a before and after picture for you of Daniels people and Jerusalem that show the changes accomplished in the 70th week. The new covenant is in place for sure and that fulfilled the covenant with Abraham in your seed all the nations will be blessed. The idea that Jesus taught a spiritual kingdom too that being born again to enter it confuses many as that is used to close the door on the prophecies that are still on the board for national Israel, Daniels people and the holy city Jerusalem. My launching point was Luke 1 where I noted that Jesus is supposed to be the one keeping all the promises, oaths, covenants and prophecies to deliver Israel from their enemies and from that time on they worship and serve Him with out fear and now in holiness all the days of their lives. Now this is where the before and after picture for Daniels 6 things takes place at the 2nd coming and the onset of the millennium. Ill post this for now and then gather a ew of the verses the speak to this concept of before and after. I'll post that later as I have stuff to attend too.

 

[grafted branch]

Hi grafted branch,

Do you know that the Hebrew language was extinct and revived in the late 19th century? With 9 million speakers of Modern Hebrew of which 5 million are native speakers (2017).

Just look at how Israel was restored, here Brian is correct.

I have no problem recognizing Israel as a physical nation that has been restored. The thing that I question is if God recognizes them and deals with them differently than other people in the world who are citizens of other nations.

Do you think God treats people who call themselves Jews and live in Israel differently than others?

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi Brian, I would say Jeremiah 31:35-40 doesn’t affirm Israel will remain forever, in fact it affirms the opposite, Israel will cease to be a nation before God.

Jeremiah 31:36 says if the ordinances depart from before me Israel will cease from being a nation before me forever. Revelation 21:23 says New Jerusalem has no need<5532> or business with the sun or moon. Revelation 21:24 has the nations of them which are saved walking in the light of it (New Jerusalem). There still are nations but they are not using the sun or moon.

Jeremiah 31:37 says if heaven above can be measured … in Revelation 21:16 New Jerusalem which was in heaven above was measured.


How can Israel still be considered a nation before God when the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars which were given in Genesis 1:14 are no longer being used and heaven was able to be measured in Revelation 21?

Hi in the futurist view those things happen after Satan is loosed and tempts the nations one more time; then those who's names were not written in the lamb's book were judged at the great white throne. The kingdom established at the 2nd coming does not end when the new Jerusalem comes down the kingdom is moved and the passages say the city will be rebuilt when the dead bodies are in the valleys and never thrown down again. So here is the problem is the return from Babylon was being talked about the dead bodies were not there and secondly after being rebuilt it was thrown down again so here there are 2 solid contradictions that are not contradictions with the idea that Jesus comes like ZEch 14 kills the enemies and then the city is rebuilt. It is also noted to be Holy too from that time one and that is another verse that points to Luke 1. Ideas I have expressed on other posts in this thread. If the futurist are wrong why is a 3rd temple planned for at a time when a new world order is openly planned and that the fall of the entire current system is looking likely?

 

[3 Resurrections]

If the futurist are wrong why is a 3rd temple planned for at a time when a new world order is openly planned...

Brian, you and I and the rest of believers currently compose that "third temple". It is a spiritual temple being steadily built up with "living stones", and built upon Christ the "chief cornerstone". The New Covenant is the "new world order", as you phrase it: a current spiritual reality in this world that was established long ago by Christ and the "New Covenant in His blood".