Is a Contiguous Count of Daniel’s 70 Weeks found in New Testament Writings?

[DavidPT]

It is not I who said this: Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
It is a simile. I found this on the website walkinginword.com to be right on.
Now, since this as a simile, we can’t take it literally. With the Lord, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. Therefore concluding that one day = thousand years is wrong. This verse means that the “time” as perceived by humans is totally different from God’s idea of time because He is eternal. He exists from everlasting to everlasting. He has no beginning and no end.

With humans, one day is as 24 hours, and 24 hours are as one day. I guess this is a simile as well, which means it can't be taken literally, that one day and 24 hours mean the exact same thing. I guess I was taught improperly when I attended school during my youth, because I was taught that one day and 24 hours are meaning the same thing. But since I used an 'as', thus turning it into a simile, this means that it is not literally true that one day and 24 hours are the exact same thing, per this example.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Let's go back a couple of verses. Matthew 24:32Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door.

James 5:8You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door.

34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Christ clearly states the that all those things would happen before that generation would end. And that heaven and earth(old covenant Israel) would pass away with it.
When Moses is near death, he gathers Israel together and tells them of their last days.
Deuteronomy 29: 29For I know that after my death you will behave very corruptly and turn from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will confront you in the latter days, because you will do that which is evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger with the work of your hands.”
30Then Moses spoke in the hearing of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song, until they were complete:
Deuteronomy 32:
The Song of Moses was a song they were to sing every year until their last generation where they would be a witness against themselves through the song's words which included:
1“Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;
And let the earth hear the words of my mouth!.....
15“But Jeshurun became fat and kicked—
You have become fat, thick, and obstinate—
Then he abandoned God who made him,
And rejected the Rock of his salvation.
20“Then He said, ‘I will hide My face from them,
I will see what their end will be;
For they are a perverse generation,
Sons in whom there is no faithfulness.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on urging them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!”

Interesting documentary of the Roman siege of Jerusalem.

If you watch it, you will see how the Roman's surrounded Jerusalem fulfilling
Luke 21:20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Obviously, it has escaped you that this thread concedes that the 70 weeks are not a literal 490 days but symbolically represent 490 years, so presenting literal temporal indicators as good foundations in interpreting prophecy is fallacious. Protracted time expressed in imminence is common in prophecy so as to promote vigilance and discourage apathy.

Matthew 24: 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.​

There isn’t one creditable account from the ante-Nicene forefathers of Christ coming back in AD 70! Nevertheless, their vigilance and ardor led them to theorize that Nero was the antichrist, which hundreds of years later the Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613) used to attempt to counter the Reformation with his heresy of preterism. Nevertheless, it doesn’t take a historicist to grasp that literal temporal indicators are not a proper foundation in determining prophecy, as the 70 weeks in Daniel informs us. The return of Christ did not occur in AD 70 or in that “generation” and Christ’s admonishment in Matthew 24:42 to remain vigilant is merely the principle of imminence in prophecy. Imminence involves joining the present and the immediate future with distant eschatological events such as Amos’ prophecy of the impending historical judgment of Israel at the hands of Assyria and the distant eschatological salvation of Israel. The NT is quite clear that God is not done with Israel.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew… 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace… 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​

Amos informs us of the imminence of the Assyrian invasion in his time and the NT informs us that his prophecy that Israel will be saved is sure, even if it is a distant eschatological event expressed without chronological distinction from Amos’ present. The destruction of Jerusalem was certainly imminent in the Olivet discourse, but it did not forecast the end of Israel or affirm the distant return of Christ that we are able to grasp today.

 

[jgr]

Obviously, it has escaped you that this thread concedes that the 70 weeks are not a literal 490 days but symbolically represent 490 years, so presenting literal temporal indicators as good foundations in interpreting prophecy is fallacious. Protracted time expressed in imminence is common in prophecy so as to promote vigilance and discourage apathy.

Matthew 24: 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.​

There isn’t one creditable account from the ante-Nicene forefathers of Christ coming back in AD 70! Nevertheless, their vigilance and ardor led them to theorize that Nero was the antichrist, which hundreds of years later the Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613) used to attempt to counter the Reformation with his heresy of preterism. Nevertheless, it doesn’t take a historicist to grasp that literal temporal indicators are not a proper foundation in determining prophecy, as the 70 weeks in Daniel informs us. The return of Christ did not occur in AD 70 or in that “generation” and Christ’s admonishment in Matthew 24:42 to remain vigilant is merely the principle of imminence in prophecy. Imminence involves joining the present and the immediate future with distant eschatological events such as Amos’ prophecy of the impending historical judgment of Israel at the hands of Assyria and the distant eschatological salvation of Israel. The NT is quite clear that God is not done with Israel.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew… 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace… 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​

Amos informs us of the imminence of the Assyrian invasion in his time and the NT informs us that his prophecy that Israel will be saved is sure, even if it is a distant eschatological event expressed without chronological distinction from Amos’ present. The destruction of Jerusalem was certainly imminent in the Olivet discourse, but it did not forecast the end of Israel or affirm the distant return of Christ that we are able to grasp today.

How does God identify His Israel?

1. Physical DNA
2. Religion
3. Culture
4. Faith and obedience

?

 

[Jerryhuerta]

How does God identify His Israel?

1. Physical DNA
2. Religion
3. Culture
4. Faith and obedience

?

The elect at Christ’s return are comprised of both the literal descendants of Jacob as well as Gentiles. Hosea tells us Ephraim is mixed at this time (Hosea 7:8). Nevertheless, there are living descendants of the tribes of Israel today. In saving the remnant of literal descendants God fulfills what the prophets predicted and the NT authors affirmed.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:​

How God determines who is Israel is by election.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Matthew 24: 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

In truth Jesus is telling them exactly which festival within that generation that it would happen to within a couple of days. Here's a paragraph from an article from: No Man Knows The Day or The Hour | Hatikva Ministries
The seventh month, Tishri, has three inter-linked festivals. The first festival occurs on the first day of the seventh month which of course would also be a Rosh Chodesh or New Moon. This festival is generally called Rosh haShanah which means the Head of the Year, and is commonly celebrated as the Jewish New Year. Among most Christians this festival is known as the Feast of Trumpets. This title somewhat misconveys the actual Biblical name of the festival, Yom Teruah, which means the Day of the Awakening Blast. The next festival is Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, and occurs on the 10th of Tishri. Five days later the Festival of Sukkot begins and is celebrated for 7 days from the 15th of Tishri through the 21st. An additional day is attached to Sukkot but is viewed as being separate from these 7 days. This day is known as Shimini Atzeret, the Eighth Day and occurs on the 22nd of Tishri. Therefore, once the Sanhedrin has set the Rosh Chodesh for Tishri, the rest of the festivals could be calculated. Rosh haShanah stands alone during Tishri, as well as the rest of the year, as being the only festival of which no man knew the day or the hour. It could only be determined by the decree from the court declaring the the New Moon had been spotted.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew…

Romans 8:29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Romans 9: 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.

Why would Paul say that if all kinsmen according to the flesh are going to be saved? The answer:

Romans 9:6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Galatians 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Acts 3:22Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’ 24And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.

destroyed:
exolethreuó: to destroy utterly
Original Word: ἐξολοθρεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exolethreuó
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-ol-oth-ryoo'-o)
Definition: to destroy utterly
Usage: I destroy utterly, annihilate, exterminate, root out.

Those who didn't come to Christ would have no more inheritance to pass on.

Galatians 4:
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

As you can see, the earthly Jerusalem is cast out. Superseded by the heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12: 22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

With humans, one day is as 24 hours, and 24 hours are as one day. I guess this is a simile as well, which means it can't be taken literally, that one day and 24 hours mean the exact same thing. I guess I was taught improperly when I attended school during my youth, because I was taught that one day and 24 hours are meaning the same thing. But since I used an 'as', thus turning it into a simile, this means that it is not literally true that one day and 24 hours are the exact same thing, per this example.

I'm just going to paste an article from 2 Peter 3:8 one day is like a thousand years - creation.com
Question: Doesn’t 2 Peter 3:8 indicate that the days of creation might not be literal, but thousands of years long?

Answer: 2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.

The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:

‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’
This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).

The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.

In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm יום , is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. For more information, see other articles in Q&A: Genesis under ‘Days of Creation’.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

In truth Jesus is telling them exactly which festival within that generation that it would happen to within a couple of days. Here's a paragraph from an article from: No Man Knows The Day or The Hour | Hatikva Ministries
The seventh month, Tishri, has three inter-linked festivals. The first festival occurs on the first day of the seventh month which of course would also be a Rosh Chodesh or New Moon. This festival is generally called Rosh haShanah which means the Head of the Year, and is commonly celebrated as the Jewish New Year. Among most Christians this festival is known as the Feast of Trumpets. This title somewhat misconveys the actual Biblical name of the festival, Yom Teruah, which means the Day of the Awakening Blast. The next festival is Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, and occurs on the 10th of Tishri. Five days later the Festival of Sukkot begins and is celebrated for 7 days from the 15th of Tishri through the 21st. An additional day is attached to Sukkot but is viewed as being separate from these 7 days. This day is known as Shimini Atzeret, the Eighth Day and occurs on the 22nd of Tishri. Therefore, once the Sanhedrin has set the Rosh Chodesh for Tishri, the rest of the festivals could be calculated. Rosh haShanah stands alone during Tishri, as well as the rest of the year, as being the only festival of which no man knew the day or the hour. It could only be determined by the decree from the court declaring the the New Moon had been spotted.

Romans 8:29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Romans 9: 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.

Why would Paul say that if all kinsmen according to the flesh are going to be saved? The answer:

Romans 9:6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Galatians 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Acts 3:22Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’ 24And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.

destroyed:
exolethreuó: to destroy utterly
Original Word: ἐξολοθρεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exolethreuó
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-ol-oth-ryoo'-o)
Definition: to destroy utterly
Usage: I destroy utterly, annihilate, exterminate, root out.

Those who didn't come to Christ would have no more inheritance to pass on.

Galatians 4:
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

As you can see, the earthly Jerusalem is cast out. Superseded by the heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12: 22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Again, there isn’t one creditable account from the ante-Nicene forefathers of Christ coming back in AD 70! The unorthodox notion that Christ came back in AD 70 was the brainchild of the Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613) in his attempt to counter the Reformation and the well-developed interpretation that the Papacy fulfilled Daniel’s little horn. Since then, many have been fooled into believing the preterist fallacious use of literal temporal indicators.

You really don’t grasp what Paul meant when he wrote “And so all Israel shall be saved.” The statement has to be taken in the context that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Romans 9:6). And that “God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew… Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace… As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (Romans 11:2, 5, 28-29). Paul did not write in terms of universal salvation for the Jew but only that the elect children of Israel that were chosen before the foundations of the world will be saved and returned to their land, every one of them. Many are called but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).

In the inter-advent age, we come to heavenly Jerusalem, but when Christ returns then everyone will be required to come to Jerusalem in Israel to observe Sukkot (Zechariah 14:16; Isaiah 2:2-5).

 

[jgr]

The elect at Christ’s return are comprised of both the literal descendants of Jacob as well as Gentiles. Hosea tells us Ephraim is mixed at this time (Hosea 7:8). Nevertheless, there are living descendants of the tribes of Israel today. In saving the remnant of literal descendants God fulfills what the prophets predicted and the NT authors affirmed.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:​

How God determines who is Israel is by election.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​

How does God determine whom to elect?

What are His election criteria?

 

[Jerryhuerta]

How does God determine whom to elect?

What are His election criteria?

whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son

since there is nothing good in us then his criteria are merely to work out his glory

 

[jgr]

whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son

since there is nothing good in us then his criteria are merely to work out his glory

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Belief is one of the attributes that develop as God conforms us to the image of the Son. Romans 8:29. If our belief was the reason he chose us then we would merit salvation and that is unscriptural.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Romans 9:21
​

 

[jgr]

Belief is one of the attributes that develop as God conforms us to the image of the Son. Romans 8:29. If our belief was the reason he chose us then we would merit salvation and that is unscriptural.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Romans 9:21
​

The word "faith" does not appear in the Gospel of John. The word "believe" appears therein many times.

Clearly belief precedes faith.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

1 Peter 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

[/QUOTE]

and returned to their land, every one of them

Then apparently this part is the only thing we disagree about. Reading this section of Hebrews, it is clear that they weren't looking to return to the land of Israel and Jerusalem.
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
I was after that, the they were told they had come to Mt Zion and to the heavenly Jerusalem.
If you want to go there with regards to Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613) Read this paper entitled: ROMAN CATHOLIC ORIGIN OF BOTH FUTURISM & PRETERISM DOCTRINES
https://emahiser.christogenea.org/PDF/Futurism-and-Preterism.pdf

As to the anti-Nicene fathers, their prevalent view of Daniels 70 weeks was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem.
Dispensationalists believe Daniel's 70 weeks ends with the second coming.
How does one fix that contradiction? Only one way. Sola Scriptura.

 

[Timtofly]

How does God determine whom to elect?

What are His election criteria?

Every one.

The Atonement.

 

[jgr]

Every one.

The Atonement.

So we'll see Judas in heaven.

 

[jgr]

The unorthodox notion that Christ came back in AD 70 was the brainchild of the Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613) in his attempt to counter the Reformation and the well-developed interpretation that the Papacy fulfilled Daniel’s little
horn.

True.

In addition, that the apostazied papacy was not an antichrist, but that the antichrist was Nero.

In concert with the futurism of Francisco Ribera.

Together, comprising the counter-reformation of the apostasized papacy.

The statement has to be taken in the context that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Romans 9:6).

True.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant of Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

 

[Timtofly]

So we'll see Judas in heaven.

Should we put a limit on God? Or a limit on humans?

 

[jgr]

Should we put a limit on God? Or a limit on humans?

Should we say that Judas will be in heaven?

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The word "faith" does not appear in the Gospel of John. The word "believe" appears therein many times.

Clearly belief precedes faith.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

1 Peter 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

It’s clear the antithesis to faith is unbelief, which is how the terms relate. Even so, belief and faith are attributes that develop as God conforms us to the image of the Son. Romans 8:29. If the attributes were the reason God chose us then we would merit salvation and that is unscriptural.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Then apparently this part is the only thing we disagree about. Reading this section of Hebrews, it is clear that they weren't looking to return to the land of Israel and Jerusalem.
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
I was after that, the they were told they had come to Mt Zion and to the heavenly Jerusalem.
If you want to go there with regards to Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613) Read this paper entitled: ROMAN CATHOLIC ORIGIN OF BOTH FUTURISM & PRETERISM DOCTRINES
https://emahiser.christogenea.org/PDF/Futurism-and-Preterism.pdf

As to the anti-Nicene fathers, their prevalent view of Daniels 70 weeks was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem.
Dispensationalists believe Daniel's 70 weeks ends with the second coming.
How does one fix that contradiction? Only one way. Sola Scriptura.

Why do so called Christians defy Christ by holding the unscriptural notion that heaven is our inheritance?

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.​

No doubt to those who have eyes and see and ears that listen, the heavenly country in Hebrews 11:16 is on earth when Christ returns. The Parable of the Ten Minas in Luke 19 spells it out that Christ ascends to his Father and waits to receive his Kingdom and then returns to establish it and apportion out our inheritance. And this agrees completely with the OT.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle… 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one… 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.​

Isaiah also writes about this time.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.​

Those who have eyes that see and ears that listen see the evil of this world and are still looking for a heavenly country, and in the interim, we come to heavenly Jerusalem, until Christ returns to reign in his Kingdom.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:​