• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Is a Born Again Christian a "sinner"?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jonathan Mathews, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Unnamed Guy

    Unnamed Guy Member

    112
    +45
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
    Sin, singular, is the absence of spirit. Adam had a spirit but it died and so he was unable to bequeath a spirit to his offspring. That is why everybody is born in sin, not because Mommy and Daddy did the big nasty. That is why a savior had to die in our place and make it possible to create a new spirit for us.

    Sins, plural, are mistakes, such as throwing a dart and missing the bullseye. Christians are baptised into Christ's death, and dead bodies don't commit sins, so sins are not an issue for Christians. There is no more forgiveness. Either you believe in Jesus and are saved or you don't believe and are lost.

    It is not reliable to let people tell you what the bible says. Many people will make up stuff because they don't know what it says, and many will make up stuff because they wish it would not say what it says. You just have to read it for yourself. Read a chapter of Proverbs every day. Proverbs has 31 chapters so you can keep your place by just looking at a calendar. There is no religion or nothing in Proverbs and you don't have to believe anything. Just read to find wisdom. When you are comfortable with that, then read the bible from Romans to 2 Thessalonians over and over until you start to remember what it says. That is the part that applies to Christians. Here is a book to help you to understand the bible. It's a free download and you can get a hard copy at any bible book store.
    www.philologos.org/__eb-htetb/ "How To Enjoy The Bible"
     
  2. SaintCody777

    SaintCody777 A wise Berean

    169
    +177
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    As a Christian, it makes absolutely no sense to deliberately dwell and enjoy the very sins that Jesus died to save you from (Romans 6).
     
  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +14,874
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    Without the searing concience that comes from recognizing that we are sinners, how can we repent, and without repentance, how can we have faith in the saving power of the Gospel for sinners?

    To deny we are sinners is to deny our need for God's grace, it denies the Gospel and our need for forgiveness. As long as we dwell with this "body of death" as St. Paul calls it, then we are sinners and in need of God's mercy.

    My hope in Christ is not something once, sometime early in life; it is my ever-present hope. We are saved through faith, that is present tense, we are being saved as Scripture says. Our salvation is past, present, and future tense. We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.

    We were saved, when Christ our Lord suffered, died, and rose again two thousand years ago.
    We are being saved by the gracious acting of God upon us, through faith, working through the Means of Grace.
    We will be saved, on the Last Day, at Christ's coming when the dead are raised and this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption.

    This life of faith in which we now dwell is God's continuing gift to us. We are sinners, forgiven and reconciled to God, granted faith to our hearts by the Holy Spirit, receiving the gifts of God.

    If we abandon this faith, if we shipwreck this faith, then we squander the gifts of God. Therefore pray hard, for you are very much a sinner.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

    +873
    Korea, Republic Of
    Christian
    Married
    We Christians are both sinners (we have all broken the Law) and saints (we have all been saved by the Gospel). Thanks be to God for his mercy and grace.
     
  5. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

    +1,090
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Luke 18:9-14 gives us an example of what we are, we are sinners not saints.
     
  6. Calvin_1985

    Calvin_1985 Active Member

    317
    +120
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Forget about asking these questions on this forum and go to Jesus himself. You are putting yourself into bondage and spiritual anguish in trying to figure this out. Just go to The words of Jesus, eat of them, and let him show you what you are. Eat of His Flesh and drink if His blood and walk in the Freedom he has given you. He has given you Liberty to no longer worry about whether you are a "sinner" or a "saint", just be a child and follow Him.
     
  7. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,240
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    The Church does not teach sanctification anymore much, but one "born again" will still fall at a decreasing rate. In other words, near the age of spiritual maturity, sanctification (enriched and driven by faith in the Most High God, The Word of God Himself, and obedience to their commandments) will "cleanse" or "purify" someone significantly.

    When the bible speaks of righteous men, these are sanctified men who have been tried and purified by trials and tribulation (i.e. spiritual experience). Whoever is truly born again cannot be "unborn", and the Father ill convict and drive that one to be the son/daughter that He wants to fashion. This may happen in a month, or at the end of a lifetime. Sanctification/purification/making one white as snow/refining one as fine gold is a process.
     
  8. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

    +5,867
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Being realistic about how prone we are to stumble is a good thing. It is humbling, and realistic.

    It is good to strive to become more holy, but that striving, with God's help, is also a daily struggle and journey against the flesh, weakness, selfishness, foolishness, pride, and rebellion.

    And yet, God calls us to become great Saints. It is a becoming. We are not there yet, but we can be. This is why the Church in Her wisdom declares a man or woman a Saint after they have left this world.

    Being hopeful is good! And so is being honest.
     
  9. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

    +4,024
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    Neither, none. Noone seems to be certain about it.

    Don't go further than the truth.... If you are uncertain, then you are uncertain which is the truth, no need to say "I'm a sinner" nor "I'm a saint" if you are unsure which one you are.

    Don't worry about it, much simpler eh?

    These declarations are from the heart. Those people we read in the Bible admitting being a sinner did so without the knowledge of the New Testament that we now have...

    To them, the words came from the heart..... But for us, it's mostly religious ritual, dogmas. We lost it. We became like the Pharisees. If Jesus would come in our midst today, only very few will recognize Him. the rest would nail Him again to the cross.

    If you get my point, then you know what to do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +4,984
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    People are born into sin, just as fish are born into water.
    You can long for the day you will be dry, but not in this life.

    Understanding that you have been spiritually reborn gives you the freedom to make good choices. But being a sinner it's important to know that instead, you will make selfish choices and assume that the end justifies the means. You will often forget what God teaches you through the Holy Spirit, which is just not natural.

    Philippians 2:4

    Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

    Luke 6:35

    But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.

    Philippians 2:3

    Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

    1 Peter 3:8

    Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.



     
  11. FIRESTORM314

    FIRESTORM314 Well-Known Member Supporter

    640
    +375
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    TRUE

    I think some balance is required here...

    These were some of that last words of Peter

    2 Peter 1:12
    So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.
    13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,
    14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

    What did he remind them of? - was it their sin?
    No - he told them what to aim for

    His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
    4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
    5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
    6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
    7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.
    8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  12. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +2,635
    Canada
    Baptist
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    "The me I see is the me I'll be."

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
     
  13. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +2,635
    Canada
    Baptist
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Here's something to ponder: Time, space, matter and energy only came into being at Creation (or, the Big Bang, if you like). Prior to the moment of Creation, then, there were none of these things and so there was no "everything" or "everywhere" - terms which only apply to a material universe. There was only an immaterial, timeless Mind we call God, existing alone in a circumstance transcendent to the physical universe. Weird, eh? Sorta' bakes my noodle a bit!
     
  14. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

    +1,090
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    How does that make one a sinner? In comparison to the creator?
     
  15. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +2,635
    Canada
    Baptist
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    ??? My "point to ponder" wasn't to the OP's question about identity but to the remark he made in the quotation from him that I posted about God's existence prior to Creation. What I wrote was intended only as an interesting aside. My answer to the OP itself is a couple of posts back in this thread.
     
  16. GraceBro

    GraceBro Member

    173
    +128
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    You are correct here. You are a saint. While you still sin, that is not your identity. As expressed by Paul in many of his letters, he refers to the Christians he wrote to as Saints. The sin issue is over between man and God. He is no longer counting our sins against us. When you sin, you thank Him for the forgiveness you have as an inheritance of your faith in Jesus and then boldly approach God to find out why you weren't trusting Him when you sinned.
     
  17. PoppyB

    PoppyB Member

    172
    +166
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    The same thing has bothered me too as I believe that in God's eyes we are without sin and so we are saints. He can't accept sin but once we have come to accept Jesus we are washed in the blood of the Lamb and because our sin is washed away we are free to approach God as one of his saints or children.
     
Loading...