is a belief in Hell necessary?

[StevenL]

Belief in "hell" is necessary if one wants to understand the state of human religion.

No prophet or apostle ever taught that one must believe in "hell" to be saved.....nor did Yeshua. "Believe on the Lord Yeshua, the Anointed One and you will be saved and delivered."

To understand what was really taught by the original Bible writers about "hell", one must know what the four words translated as "hell" mean (isn't that kinda silly? Why are words with different meanings translated with only one word?) as they were originally used and the root of the English word "hell". I challenge any seeker of God to study this out and find out the actual meanings instead of just believing medieval church teachings on the subject.

Question: What, in most societies, is the ultimate and final punishment for a heinous crime? Think about it.

Question: What are the wages of sin?

 

[Raydar]

Is it necessary to believe in hell at all? If not, what are we "saved" from?


Thanks,

Joy

Joy stated, "Is it necessary to believe in hell at all?", not that it is required for salvation.

 

[Egghead]

Mind if I point you to some light reading first? I'll be back in the AM.

The Orthodox teaching is that Heaven and Hell are the same "place" , standing in front of God.

The Judgment is individual perception, determined by one's relationship to God.

This perception will determine whether or not one experiences it as paradise (Heaven) or agony (Hell) eternally.

Forgive me....

But in the end, isnt it still the same?
We ARe saved from something as was stated.

 

[Egghead]

No prophet or apostle ever taught that one must believe in "hell" to be saved.....nor did Yeshua. "Believe on the Lord Yeshua, the Anointed One and you will be saved and delivered."

And yet Yashua taught more on the topic than anyone else in the NT.

To understand what was really taught by the original Bible writers about "hell", one must know what the four words translated as "hell" mean (isn't that kinda silly? Why are words with different meanings translated with only one word?) as they were originally used and the root of the English word "hell". I challenge any seeker of God to study this out and find out the actual meanings instead of just believing medieval church teachings on the subject.

Why do we always fall back on this translation thing?
There are very CLEAR descriptions of that place, how a single word was rendered doesnt prove a thing.

Question: What, in most societies, is the ultimate and final punishment for a heinous crime? Think about it.

Sorry, we're not talking about how man does things but God.

Question: What are the wages of sin? Death.
Now go look in Revelation and see where ''death'' is cast in the end.

 

[yashua]

Joykins asked if a belif in hell was necessary. From the passage I quoted in Matt 25 (which is not out of context because I quoted the whole passage and not 1 or 2 verses) it is very clear that Jesus Christ Himself said there is ETERNAL punishment and there is eternal life. I think if you asked 500 or 5,000,000 people what eternal punishment and eternal life was, I think the vast majority would say hell and heaven. You need not have a Masters in Thoelogy to figure out what He is saying in that passage. If you asked those same people what eternal meant I think all of them would say, time without end, timeless, forever and ever etc.

No you do not have to believe in hell to be a christian.
But on the other hand just think of your family members that didn't believe the way they were "taught" to believe, how they are suffering, screaming in agony from the torment of their flesh burning with sulphur?
How they ask God for relief but God is angry at them for not believing how much He loves them. Oh well thats justice being served forever.
Praise God for justice that will in the end be served with un-ending pain because those sorry no good sinners didn't believe the way they were supposed to believe, they deserve to go to Hell forever and ever with no hope, only torment and torture because Hell is fair after all.
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment

 

[Egghead]

No you do not have to believe in hell to be a christian.
But on the other hand just think of your family members that didn't believe the way they were "taught" to believe, how they are suffering, screaming in agony from the torment of their flesh burning with sulphur?
How they ask God for relief but God is angry at them for not believing how much He loves them. Oh well thats justice being served forever.
Praise God for justice that will in the end be served with un-ending pain because those sorry no good sinners didn't believe the way they were supposed to believe, they deserve to go to Hell forever and ever with no hope, only torment and torture because Hell is fair after all.
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment

Are you looking for justice that makes sense to you or are you looking for the truth?

I read a bit of your article.
I really loathe those that try to play with the meanings of words like Hades and such.

Fact is that the desciptions alone are enough, renderings such as hades and sheol are moot.
That place is described as perpetual and fiery torment.

 

[StevenL]

And yet Yashua taught more on the topic than anyone else in the NT.

And yet the Greek writers used two different words when telling of Jesus' teaching on this topic which translators have lumped into one word. So it would behoove us to know which word he was actually using and the real meaning of each.

Why do we always fall back on this translation thing?
There are very CLEAR descriptions of that place, how a single word was rendered doesnt prove a thing.

Heaven help us if we actually learn to think and to insist on correct translations of words. We should just sit back and be spoon fed by religious zealots who only think with their steeple.

Sorry, we're not talking about how man does things but God.

Man got his ideas of punishment from God.

Question: What are the wages of sin? Death.
Now go look in Revelation and see where ''death'' is cast in the end.

I did look in Revelation. That's why I began to look at the translations. In the church idea of "hell", when I read where death and hell is cast in that verse, I see that "hell" is cast into "hell". What a stupid idea. It's confusion. Bad translation and false ideas lead to confusion.

For those who can think:

Go to the Old Testament and study the word "sheol", sometimes translated as "hell". See what's happening (or not) there. Then look into the New Testament writings and study the equivalent word to sheol "hades" which is also translated as "hell". Then study the Greek word "Gehenna" (also *incorrectly* translated as "hell") and its symbolic use by Yeshua. Then study the Greek word "Tartarus" (also *incorrectly* translated as "hell") and its use in 2 Peter. I don't mean go to some religious manual to do your study. Just go to a good concordance and dictionary and find the meanings of the words. See how inconsistently the words are translated. Got "hells" everwhere that aren't really "hells".

 

[StevenL]

Are you looking for justice that makes sense to you or are you looking for the truth?

I read a bit of your article.
I really loathe those that try to play with the meanings of words like Hades and such.

Fact is that the desciptions alone are enough, renderings such as hades and sheol are moot.
That place is described as perpetual and fiery torment.

Yes your "loathing" is very evident. Maybe you should loathe instead the practice of false scholarship that introduces false teachings and confusion into the churches.

No all the places called hell are not described as perpetual and fiery torment. (Except by religious folks) If one will read all the instances of the words "sheol", "hades", "tartarus", and "gehenna", all translated as "hell", he or she will not consistently find that description at all and WILL find that there are distinctions among the ideas behind these words.

But only those who can undertake to think for themselves as led by the Spirit of Jesus will ever be able to see such things. The rest will just "loathe" and gnash with the teeth at anything that conflicts with their religious ideas.

 

[george]

There are a few things in the bible we can choose to believe or disbelieve without contradicting any of Christ teachings. like for example: once saved,always saved. predestianation, drinking, gambling, paul talked about eating certain types of food. we all can find verses on these and others subjects and support each others personal beliefs.

but we can't do it on the subject of hell. atleast without contradiction christ teaching. he taught on hell, more than he did on heaven. no one has to be warned to avoid heaven, so he warned of hell more. if there is no hell, then their is no accountability for sin, then there would be know need for a judgement.if john 3:16 says... that those who did not believe, would perish, then if their is no hell, then were else would they perish, and if they were just cast out of existance, then how would they be perishing?

 

[StevenL]

he taught on hell, more than he did on heaven.

Please verify this with some true Scriptural statistics. And when you do, I will verify the information myself to back you up. Thanks.

that those who did not believe, would perish, then if their is no hell, then were else would they perish, and if they were just cast out of existance, then how would they be perishing?

Does anyone here understand what it means to perish?

And back to my thought. In which "hell" do they perish? The "sheol" hell, the "hades" hell, the "gehenna" hell, the "tartarus" hell? Sorry, as much as many would wish, all the "hells" are NOT the same. No one is disputing Yeshua's teaching. I am examining whether he actually taught on the "hell" that we imagine today. It is very clear (from the original languages) that the differing words for "hell" that Yeshua used have been joined together in a single idea with a few extra (later) ideas thrown into the mix.

Of course we are accountable for sin. As the prophet said....."the soul that sins shall DIE." (Perish)

 

[yashua]

Are you looking for justice that makes sense to you or are you looking for the truth?

I read a bit of your article.
I really loathe those that try to play with the meanings of words like Hades and such.

Fact is that the desciptions alone are enough, renderings such as hades and sheol are moot.
That place is described as perpetual and fiery torment.

Descriptions alone are enough?
If thats the way you perceive things then I quess "Dante's Inferno" alone should be enough, right?

If you only read a "bit" and not all, you will always have a "blind" understanding of the things in which you believe.

renderings such as hades and sheol are moot.
That place is described as perpetual and fiery torment.

The English word Hell grew into its present meaning. Horne Tooke says that hell, heel, hill, hole, whole, hall, hull, halt and hold are all from the same root. "Hell, any place, or some place covered over. Heel, that part of the foot which is covered by the leg. Hill, any heap of earth, or stone, etc., by which the plain or level surface of the earth is covered. Hale, i.e., healed or whole. Whole, the same as hale, i.e., covered. It was formerly written whole, without the w, as a wound or sore is healed, or whole, that is, covered over by the skin, which manner of expression will not seem extraordinary if we consider our use of the word recover. Hall, a covered building, where persons assemble, or where goods are protected from the weather. Hull, of a nut, etc. That by which a nut is covered. Hole, some place covered over. 'You shall seek for holes to hide your heads in.' Holt, holed, hol'd holt. A rising ground or knoll covered with trees. Hold, as the hold of a ship, in which things are covered, or the covered part of a ship."




7585 she'owl (sheh-ole');or sheol (sheh-ole'); from 7592; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates: KJV-- grave, hell, pit. (Strong’s)

7585 she'owl or sheol-sheol, the underworld, grave, Hades, pit (Brown-Driver-Briggs’)
a) the underworld
b) Sheol, the Old Testament designation for the abode of the dead
1) the place of no return
2) without the praise of God
3) wicked people sent there for punishment
4) the righteous not abandoned to it
5) used of the place of exile (figurative)
6) used of extreme degradation in sin
1516 gay' (gah'-ee);or (shortened) gay (gah'-ee); probably (by transmutation) from the same root as 1466 (abbreviated); a gorge (from its lofty sides; hence, narrow, but not a gully or winter-torrent): KJV-- valley. (Strong’s)


1516 gay' (or, shortened, gay)-a valley, a steep valley, a narrow gorge (Brown-Driver-Briggs’)
2011 Hinnom (hin-nome'); probably of foreign origin; Hinnom, apparently a Jebusite: KJV-- Hinnom. (Strong’s)


2011 Hinnom -Hinnom = "lamentation"; a valley (deep and narrow ravine) with steep, rocky sides located southwest of Jerusalem, separating Mount Zion to the north from the `hill of evil counsel' and the sloping rocky plateau of the `plain of Rephaim' to the south (Brown-Driver-Briggs’)
8612 Topheth (to'-feth); the same as 8611; Topheth, a place near Jerusalem: KJV-- Tophet, Topheth. (Strong’s)


8612 Topheth -Tophet or Topheth = "a place of fire"; a place in the southeast end of the Valley of the Sons of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem. It is the same as entry 8613. (Brown-Driver-Briggs’)
86 haides (hah'-dace);from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls: KJV-- grave, hell. (Strong’s)


86 hades-
1) the name of Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3) the later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

In Biblical Greek it is associated with Orcus, the infernal regions, a dark and dismal place in the very depths of the earth, the common receptacle of disembodied spirits. Usually Hades is just the abode of the wicked, Luke 16:23, Rev. 20:13,14; a very uncomfortable place. (Brown-Driver-Briggs’)
1067 geena (gheh'-en-nah); of Hebrew origin [1516 and 2011]; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: KJV-- hell. (Strong’s)


1067 geenna -Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction. (Brown-Driver-Briggs’)
5020 tartaroo (tar-tar-o'-o); from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: KJV-- cast down to hell. (Strong’s)
5020 tartaroo-

1) the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews
2) to thrust down to Tartarus, to hold captive in Tartarus (Brown-Driver-Briggs’)

2nd Tim. 2:15-16
15Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth. 16But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness.

The empty talk and teaching of "Hell," "eternal torment" has led many to ungodliness. History has proved this time and time again, wouldn't you agree?

Inqusistions, Crusades, "Queen "Bloody" Mary, Martin Luther, Adolph Hitler (who believed he was fullfilling God's will thanks to Martin Luther.) etc.etc.