Iran...

Tehran appears to be one of several evil capitals east of the Euphrates that start the battle of Ar Mageddon.
The Good News is, Israel and the west win.

Hi Buzz

How do you get Russia being the Dragon of revelation 12:

That is a doctrine of men and just plain ignores scripture. Scripture tells us who the Dragon is.

9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:

It does not say it is a nation does it.



Hi Interpreter.

NO ONE nation or group WINS Armageddon.........................Well no human Nation........................Armageddon is all the deceived nations of the World under the AC coming to battle with the kings of the East.................

Rev 16:12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared 13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Above is the Armies of the Kings of the East. The AC controls the whole world EXCEPT the Kings of the East. So every Nation and all the Kings and all the Armies of the Nations of the World are at Armageddon.

So what happens to all these armies and Kings

Rev 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.21: And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER…………………….. IN EVERY SINGLE ARMY ………………….FROM EVERY SINGLE NATION…………….. IS DESTROYED.

There is no victory for the West and Israel……………..I will bump another thread that follows the course of events as laid out in Daniel. Daniel makes it clear the AC IE the king of the North will take over the Holy Land and set up his kingdom there.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2341465-a-picture-1000-words.html

It could be that nothing major will happen. Russia recently made an offer to have the uranium-enriching done in Russia, under supervision which would ensure Iran doesn't get weapons-grade plutonium. Something like that.

My point is that there are multiple possible outcomes. I have to believe that a lot of Muslim leaders don't really want to get into a nuclear exchange with Israel and the USA. (You'll notice that the leaders always get some dumb grunt to to their suicide bombings. The leaders have no intention of dying for the cause.) Lots of things can happen which will reduce the risk of Iran bombing Israel, or Israel bombing Iran. It's not a foregone conclusion.

Have you seen this gem?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48225

I wrote a short bit on this clown on my website here:

http://christianbookreviews.net/2006/01/iranian-president-sees-light.html

Buzz_Lightyear said:

Is it possible that Revelations 12 contains two references to different dragons, The red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and the other great dragon that is in heaven (aka Satan)? If you think the red dragonis Satan then what would the seven heads and ten horns be?

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Couldn't it be that the Scarlet beast transcends time and is figurative of Satan's spiritual domain through history? Satan was given dominion over all the kingdoms of the earth, so, indeed, Satan is the Scarlet beast, having those heads and dominions over time and earth's history.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

There is a dual reality to the end time scriptures that I am coming to find. The amills have it half right, and the mills have the other half right. There is a spiritual kingdom that is already established when Jesus rose from the dead, took away the keys of life and death from satan, and ascended to the Father's right hand. Yet, there is still a physical kingdom that has to be realized.
Before all things were put under the Lord's feet, all the kingdoms of the earth belonged to satan or he would not have been able to tempt Jesus with them (Luke 4:6).
So, indeed the ten horns are ten rulers, or kings, but have no kingdom until the antichrist rules for his short period of time. Who are they? Ellis Skolfield, a favorite amill author of mine, sees them as the 10 economic areas of the trilateral commision that rule over the money of the world. It is through these that the money system of the antichrist is set up. America is zone 1, Europe 2, Japan 3, Australia 4, Russia 5, South America 6, Middle East 7, Africa 8, India 9, and China 10.
America's Council of Forein Relations works with these along with Fema here at home. The pieces are in place to hand over power to the antichrist, IMO.

Dragon smagon,Iran and Isreal are on a collision course.,,,,There is the extreme possibility that the Isrealis will attempt to strike at the Iranian nuclear facilities as soon as they have the capacity to do it ,(which is being provided by US military supply)and sufficient indication that Iran intends to go ahead with the enrichment program.(which they have said they intend to do as of today sunday 9 jan.within days)
Now i am not an expert intelligence specialist,but it appears to me as if there is no other option for Isreal,given the sataments made by the Iranian pres. in regard to isreals right to exist.
It is a distinct possibility that nuclear weapons may be required to crack the hardened nuclear facilities that iran has spotted around their country.This very dispersement of the faciliteis makes it tough on the Isrealis to take out Irans potential atomic bomb making sites, without their use.Now the weapons may be smaller and cleaner than hiiroshema type bombs.but using them will greatly increase the chances for a one strike sweep of irans potential.The resultant fallout howerver has the potential to be added to by whatever material that is onsite at the time.I am not sure if there is the possibility of adding to the size of the explosion ,but the fallout may be considerably dirtier than normal.?
There is to my mind,at least little choice for the Isrealis in the matter.Few of us can truly appreciate the peril an arab bomb would put her in,and their recent military purchases of advanced fighter bombers from America that have the capability to carry out such a mission,along with lRGE QUNTITIES OF CONVENTIONAL AND NUCLEAR CAPABLE HIGH PENETRATION "BUNKER BUSTER " BOMBS from them too:adds up to the obvious conclusion.that the Isrealis expect they may be the ones to have to do the actual dirty work.(much the same as the now famous Osirak raid on Iraq.)and take the consequences after.The "consequences" being preferrable to a nuclear armed radical muslim state within missle range of Isreals borders.

With the popularity of the whole "Left Behind" stuff, I think it more likely that most Christians think they will be raptured away before the antichrist ever shows up. The best strategy for the dragon is to just have the antichrist show up since most Christians won't believe he could be here yet. Either that or have a bunch of Christians disappear and make a bunch more think they've been left behind and are not right with God.

Just The Facts said:

Hi

I think it is far more likely that we will see a convergence of Iran and Iraq into the foundation of a 10 Nation Arab/Persian Empire that Christian leaders will label as the Kingdom of the AC and its leader as the AC.

Lets face it the Christian world is pretty much all waiting the AC's arrival followed by his defeat at Armageddon the return of Christ. Many believe Armageddon and gog and Magog are the Same battle

So Satan is clever he will first create a False AC that he can show up and destroy. Since the vast majority of Christianity believe that this will be the Battle of Gog and Magog they wil expect that the returning messiah destroy Gog and magog like this

Ezekiel 38:22: And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

And This

9: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So the vast majority of Christianity believes Jesus will Show up and destroy the Armies of gog and magog with Fire from Heaven.

Well Look at how the AC deceives the World into believing he is Jesus returned.

Rev 13:13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

Coincidence...............I don't think so.

The reality is that Gog and Magog are not the battle of Armageddon and believing the two are the same just sets you up to see the AC's great wonder as Jesus fulfilling Ezekiel 38 and Rev 20.

The other reality is that the AC does not come as some heathen unbeliever he comes Showing himself to be Jesus returnened

24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.25: Behold, I have told you before. 26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Do not look to the Muslims to find the AC for you will only find Satan’s deception. The AC's goal is to deceive those already saved not waste his time on those who already on the way to the lake of fire with him. He wants to deceive the Elect (Christianity) if he can…………………… to do that he must come and appear to be Jesus returning he must sit in the inner room and show himself as Jesus returned. If the AC comes as a Muslim leader he will not fool the elect will he………………..he won’t fool any Christian.

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according to Daniel ch..11...the A/c will not regard any god and will magnify and speak against the God of gods......don't sound like he'll portray Jesus.....rather he do his own will.....remember he blasphemies...Rev....ch...13..v..6...and he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God...to blaspheme his name...tabernacle...them that dwell in heaven.....

The whole subject flickers and fades in flashes.fromthe old test to current events and back to rev.there is no making anysense when it flips thousands of years at a post,
Are we talking things present things past or what is yet to be..Near time or far?this gets hard to follow......Meantime i think the focus of this thread is current so i have to add that Iran turned down the russian deal and intends to enrich uraniyum itself regardless.This will be i am sure taken as an indication that they intend to persue nuclear weapons by both the US and Isreal>Unless they desist,they will be under air attack by next spring at the latest i think....If it is left much longer i am sure air bombardment will have a difficult time trying for a clean sweep on a first strike....

Hi bertie

Iran IS NOT Iraq.....................in light of the fact that Pakistan said it would side with Iran if it was attacked sheds a whole new light on attacking Iran.

Iran may not have to develop its own weapons..............If attacked over its nuclear program it could end up getting them from Pakistan.

As we all know Pakistan has a very developed Nuclear program and could easily deliver weapons or weapons grade material to Iran.

We must consider the realities of our Actions...........if I was in charge of Iran I would try to get nukes as soon as I could. Here is why

We have three countries in the "Axis of Evil" Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.

Iraq Had no nukes …said they had none and they still got invaded ..........................North Korea has Nukes they get negotiation and offers of aid and free reactors and we all know we will not be invading North Korea..

So Now I am in charge of Iran...........It sure would look to me that the only way to Keep America out of my country is to get Nukes.

Is it any wonder Iran is on a path to get Nukes..................if they do they will be respected and negotiated with by the West if they Don't they will be invaded Regardless of how much they protest and say they have No WMD's...it will not matter they will be invaded.

With America in Afghanistan on the eastern border and America in Iraq on the western border............From Iran’s point of view Nukes is the only way they can keep the Americans out of Iran.

Buzz_Lightyear said:

You could be correct, but I have a bad feeling about this.

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How about the Y2K bug? Did you have a bad feeling about that, too? I'm serious. Sometimes our bad feelings are just that.

And yes, I had a bad feeling about Y2K.