Interracial Relationships

[gengwall]

It is forbidden.

Check the verses on page 3.

So, if it is forbidden, then it would be forbidden for Swede and Norwegian just as much as it would be forbidden for Swede and Nigerian, yes?

 

[MatthewKnight]

So, if it is forbidden, then it would be forbidden for Swede and Norwegian just as much as it would be forbidden for Swede and Nigerian, yes?

On some level, yes - But the racial makeup of Swedes and Nords is so similar that ultimately it wouldn't make too much of a difference. A half Swedish, half Norweigen child could pass for either, and ultimately he would make up the "white" identity. They are practically the same race, or nation.

On the other hand, a mulatto child will never pass for white - nor will he pass for black. There is no nation of mulattos. He has no ancestry to look back on.

We need to examine the way the world "nation" is used in the Bible - as I said earlier, the word stems from the latin Natos which essentially means a race. There is a massive gap between the asian race and the black race and a Norweigen and a Swede. Norway and Sweden are both White Christian countries which share European history. Europe and sub-saharan Africa barely came into contact until 400 years ago.

 

[KarateCowboy]

On some level, yes - But the racial makeup of Swedes and Nords is so similar that ultimately it wouldn't make too much of a difference. A half Swedish, half Norweigen child could pass for either, and ultimately he would make up the "white" identity. They are practically the same race, or nation.

On the other hand, a mulatto child will never pass for white - nor will he pass for black. There is no nation of mulattos. He has no ancestry to look back on.

We need to examine the way the world "nation" is used in the Bible - as I said earlier, the word stems from the latin Natos which essentially means a race. There is a massive gap between the asian race and the black race and a Norweigen and a Swede.

Cuba is more than half mulatto.

By the way, while Swedes and Nords may consider themselves the same race, Koreans and Japanese do not have a similar relationship. A half Thai, half Japanese would be considered a half-breed mutt in either nation. This goes for the whole of Asia.

What about, say Basque and Norwegian?

 

[gengwall]

On some level, yes -

Whoa, whoa, whoa. "On some level". Where is this level structure outlined in the law? Where does the scripture say "inter-racial marriage is forbidden...but on some levels, not so much"?

But the racial makeup of Swedes and Nords is so similar that ultimately it wouldn't make too much of a difference. A half Swedish, half Norweigen child could pass for either, and ultimately he would make up the "white" identity. They are practically the same race, or nation.

OK - Swede and Frenchman. Swede and Romanian. Swede and Greek. My brother-in-law was a Swede and had dark skin and black hair. He could pass for any mediteranian nationality. Is he forbidden from marrying other blond haired blue eyed Swedes simply because he doesn't look like them? And again, where does the bible differentiate between "forbidden" for people who don't look at all alike and "a-ok" for people who do look alike?

We need to examine the way the world "nation" is used in the Bible - as I said earlier, the word stems from the latin Natos which essentially means a race. There is a massive gap between the asian race and the black race and a Norweigen and a Swede.

LOL - ok, in the first place, no word in the bible stems from any latin word. I hate to tell you, but the bible is written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Now, back to your obvious but apparently unrecognized contradiction. Either inter-racial marriage is forbidden or it isn't. Unless you can point to scriptural conditions that allow for it as long as people "look enough alike", you can't possibly accept the Swede and Norwegian, let alone a Swede and Frenchman. Show me the levels - show me the conditions - show me the "out clause" in the bible's prohibition on inter-racial marriage.

 

[gengwall]

And while we're at it - let's take a look at those passages again:

"Thou shalt not take a wife...of the Canaanites... but thou shall go... to my kindred, and take a wife." Gen 24:3-4

This is not a godly decree, it is a parental preference (Abraham is the speaker)

"I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand; and thou shall drive them out before thee." Ex 23:31 " They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me." Ex 23:33

"I am the Lord your God, which have separated you from other people." Lev 20:24

"So shall we be separated, I and all of Thy People, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth." Ex 33:16

Has nothing to do with marriage or banning inter-racial marriage. These are statements about God's chosen people

"Neither shalt thou make marriages with them: thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son." Deut 7:3

This pertains to Israel taking over the promised land. It is preceeded by a list of the seven nations which it applies to. It is not a general condemnation or prohibition against inter-racial marriage.

"If ye do in any wise go back and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them and they unto you: know for a certainty... that they shall be snares and traps unto you and scourges in your sides and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish off from this good land which the Lord your God has given you." Joshua 23:12-13

Again, deals with only the nations in the promised land

"And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all the strangers." Neh. 9:2

This describes a certain event where the children of Israel physically separated themselves for confession. It has nothing to do with marriage.

"Now it came to pass, when they had heard the law, that they separated from Israel all the mixed multitude. Neh. 13:3

Again, has nothing to do with marriage. It is a description of a physical separation at a certain event.

 

[wanderingone]

I will say other than the occasional visitor from places like stormfront I haven't encountered many comments in opposition of what people would call "interracial" marriage on CF (personally I'm not sure how I can be a human and be married outside my race ....)

I have encountered Christians who are not comfortable with interracial marriages, and for the most part they don't use faith as the reason for it. Other than the occasional and weak "God put everyone in their different continents for a reason..." The opposition and insults that my family has encountered have never seemed to be grounded in any particular religious teaching.

That doesn't mean I haven't seen/heard some downright bigoted comments from people regarding ethnicity on CF and elsewhere... just that most people I encounter here and elsewhere don't really have a religious basis for that bigotry.

 

[MatthewKnight]

Cuba is more than half mulatto.

By the way, while Swedes and Nords may consider themselves the same race, Koreans and Japanese do not have a similar relationship. A half Thai, half Japanese would be considered a half-breed mutt in either nation. This goes for the whole of Asia.

What about, say Basque and Norwegian?

Correct about Cuba, though the mesitzos now have their own identity as being Hispanic. All in all, it isn't a problem because of their vast numbers.

While you're correct about Korea and Japan, I'm referring to cases where it wouldn't be an issue - such as within America, where there are no such distinctions. An Asian is an "Asian" rather than a Korean, just as a White man is a White man.

Basques and Norweigens are still white. Same basic makeup, same lack of problems, same "nation."

Whoa, whoa, whoa. "On some level". Where is this level structure outlined in the law? Where does the scripture say "inter-racial marriage is forbidden...but on some levels, not so much"?

OK - Swede and Frenchman. Swede and Romanian. Swede and Greek. My brother-in-law was a Swede and had dark skin and black hair. He could pass for any mediteranian nationality. Is he forbidden from marrying other blond haired blue eyed Swedes simply because he doesn't look like them? And again, where does the bible differentiate between "forbidden" for people who don't look at all alike and "a-ok" for people who do look alike?

LOL - ok, in the first place, no word in the bible stems from any latin word. I hate to tell you, but the bible is written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Now, back to your obvious but apparently unrecognized contradiction. Either inter-racial marriage is forbidden or it isn't. Unless you can point to scriptural conditions that allow for it as long as people "look enough alike", you can't possibly accept the Swede and Norwegian, let alone a Swede and Frenchman. Show me the levels - show me the conditions - show me the "out clause" in the bible's prohibition on inter-racial marriage.

Again -- this stems from our interpretation of the word nation. I'm not a Hebrew speaker so I can hardly interpret what it means in the original text, but the fact that the Messianics chose the word nation in their translation is a testament to what the original Hebrew word could mean.

A dark haired Swede is still white. I have no problem with whites marrying whites, nor blacks with blacks or asians with asians. The problem comes when you transcend the colour line and create a half caste with no identity or place in the world.

 

[wanderingone]

Unfortunately, the same isn't true for nearly everyone else.

What is unfortunate is that people don't realize that the cause for suffering has nothing to do with someone's ethnicity ( regardless of if that ethnicity is supposedly "pure" or not) but with those who feel the need to worry about it. I cannot suffer as a multi culti person unless someone decides to act in ways meant to make me suffer.

 

[gengwall]

Correct about Cuba, though the mesitzos now have their own identity as being Hispanic. All in all, it isn't a problem because of their vast numbers.

While you're correct about Korea and Japan, I'm referring to cases where it wouldn't be an issue - such as within America, where there are no such distinctions. An Asian is an "Asian" rather than a Korean, just as a White man is a White man.

Basques and Norweigens are still white. Same basic makeup, same lack of problems, same "nation."



Again -- this stems from our interpretation of the word nation. I'm not a Hebrew speaker so I can hardly interpret what it means in the original text, but the fact that the Messianics chose the word nation in their translation is a testament to what the original Hebrew word could mean.

A dark haired Swede is still white. I have no problem with whites marrying whites, nor blacks with blacks or asians with asians. The problem comes when you transcend the colour line and create a half caste with no identity or place in the world.

Well then the bible doesn't strickly forbid inter-racial marriage. So your original premise is false.

 

[MatthewKnight]

What is unfortunate is that people don't realize that the cause for suffering has nothing to do with someone's ethnicity ( regardless of if that ethnicity is supposedly "pure" or not) but with those who feel the need to worry about it. I cannot suffer as a multi culti person unless someone decides to act in ways meant to make me suffer.

What you're proposing is that other people rip out the foundation of human nature. It is normal to stick to your own kind. People in general are never going to treat you the same way they would treat someone of their own race - that's just the way it is. The solution is not to breed everyone together and create a homogenous race of tanned people to accomodate the mixbreeds, but for each race to preserve its culture, history and identity.

I want to go to Italy and experience their country. I want to see France, China, Germany, America, Japan. I don't want to see one race all over the globe; faceless consumers with no ties to history or culture. It would be a tragedy of the highest order if any race died out.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/11/01/mixed.race.ap/

Well then the bible doesn't strickly forbid inter-racial marriage. So your original premise is false.

It does. You just interpret those verses differently.

 

[gengwall]

What you're proposing is that other people rip out the foundation of human nature. It is normal to stick to your own kind. People in general are never going to treat you the same way they would treat someone of their own race - that's just the way it is. The solution is not to breed everyone together and create a homogenous race of tanned people to accomodate the mixbreeds, but for each race to preserve its culture, history and identity.

I want to go to Italy and experience their country. I want to see France, China, Germany, America, Japan. I don't want to see one race all over the globe; faceless consumers with no ties to history or culture. It would be a tragedy of the highest order if any race died out.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/11/01/mixed.race.ap/



It does. You just interpret those verses differently.

But you have made allowance for the inter-racial marriage between the Swede and the Frenchman. Does your position then violate the biblical decree? According to your interpretation of the bible, this marriage is forbidden, and yet according to your interpretation of the bible, it is allowed. Please enlighten us to the wisdom you have obtained to solve this apparently unsolvable paradox.

 

[beechy]

The genetic makeup of the people who inhabit a country.

What is the genetic makeup of people who inhabit America?

Race is what makes the people what they are; and hence the country what they are. If the Irish country became displaced with Asians, it would no longer be Ireland, it would be a new country, because the Irish people who make up the values and traditions would be lost.

What if the Asian person grew up in Ireland and learned and maintained the Irish traditions and values? Would that person then be "racially Irish"? (Assuming that you believe "Irish" is a "race")

http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=1297

Do these look like European people to you? Race is not just "skin colour." It is a unique identity.

These are albino people. I never said anything about race as a skin color.

A child needs an identity to relate to, something a half caste does not have.

I have an identity. What makes you think bi-racial people don't have an identity?

 

[gengwall]

Accchhh. I have to go. MatthewNight - forget my last post. Just answer these three questions if you will:

Is the marriage of a Swede and a French person an inter-racial marriage?

Is such a marriage allowed in your view?

Is inter-racial marriage forbidden in the bible?

 

[beechy]

On some level, yes - But the racial makeup of Swedes and Nords is so similar that ultimately it wouldn't make too much of a difference. A half Swedish, half Norweigen child could pass for either, and ultimately he would make up the "white" identity. They are practically the same race, or nation.

So you're saying Swedes and Nords are of a similar -- but not the same -- race ... we can tell because they can "pass for" one another. Are the two races they belong to the "Swedish" and "Nordic" races? How many "races" do you think there are in the world?

 

[MatthewKnight]

But you have made allowance for the inter-racial marriage between the Swede and the Frenchman. Does your position then violate the biblical decree? According to your interpretation of the bible, this marriage is forbidden, and yet according to your interpretation of the bible, it is allowed. Please enlighten us to the wisdom you have obtained to solve this apparently unsolvable paradox.

There is a huge difference between a Scott and a Frenchman and an Englishman and a Nigerian. The father of a mulatto is more similar genetically to a random white person off the street than he is to his own kin. But this is besides the point of the half caste having no identity to call its own.

I don't just take the Biblical verses into account - I take the fact of being a good person into this. It is a selfish action to bring a half caste into the world, not a beneficial one. You may like your asian wife all and well, but the resulting Eurasian who has nowhere to fit in for his entire life would much prefer he was born to two white parents.

What is the genetic makeup of people who inhabit America?

What if the Asian person grew up in Ireland and learned and maintained the Irish traditions and values? Would that person then be "racially Irish"? (Assuming that you believe "Irish" is a "race")

Never been a single case of that happening throughout 6000 years of recorded history. When one race has displaced another, the culture and national identity was displaced with it.

Take for examine what happened in Hawaii. Historically the Japanese migrated en masse the Island and eventually became a majority there. Did they adhere to the “Hawaiian culture?” – certainly not. They took their own culture with them. We see a similar situation in Britain today, where immigrants refuse to take our culture on board and clamour for Sharia law to be implemented. Or Hispanics waving the Mexican flag during sporting events in America.

These are albino people. I never said anything about race as a skin color.

I got the impression you were saying every race was exactly the same except for skin colour. My mistake.

I have an identity. What makes you think bi-racial people don't have an identity?

Within their host countries, they don't. There is black, asian, white etc pride, but where is the "black and white" pride parade? Biracial people are so rare that they have few people to relate to. It is theoretical that you could have "biracial pride," but biracial people have no history to look back on, nor a culture to call their own.

 

[MatthewKnight]

Accchhh. I have to go. MatthewNight - forget my last post. Just answer these three questions if you will:

Is the marriage of a Swede and a French person an inter-racial marriage?

No.

Is such a marriage allowed in your view?

Yes.

Is inter-racial marriage forbidden in the bible?

Yes.

 

[beechy]

Correct about Cuba, though the mesitzos now have their own identity as being Hispanic. All in all, it isn't a problem because of their vast numbers.

So if a multi-racial group occurs in vast numbers then it is ok with you?

While you're correct about Korea and Japan, I'm referring to cases where it wouldn't be an issue - such as within America, where there are no such distinctions. An Asian is an "Asian" rather than a Korean, just as a White man is a White man.

So the definition of race is different depending on where in the world you are?

Basques and Norweigens are still white. Same basic makeup, same lack of problems, same "nation."

What do you mean "same lack of problems"?

A dark haired Swede is still white. I have no problem with whites marrying whites, nor blacks with blacks or asians with asians. The problem comes when you transcend the colour line and create a half caste with no identity or place in the world.

What if a "white" person marries another "white" person from a distinctly different national and cultural background, like if a Romanian woman married an Icelandic man. What would be the place of their children in the world?

 

[beechy]

No.



Yes.



Yes.

What is the cultural identity of the half caste child that results from a Swedish and French marriage? Is that child culturally Swedish, or culturally French?

 

[wanderingone]

While you're correct about Korea and Japan, I'm referring to cases where it wouldn't be an issue - such as within America, where there are no such distinctions. An Asian is an "Asian" rather than a Korean, just as a White man is a White man.

LOLOLOLOL Hon... the idea that "white is white" and "asian is asian" is a recent (for some people) phenomenon for those who accept it,

We've barely stopped referring to "white" people of certain national origins as "ethnic" "whites" and to people who harbor notions of racial purity "white" is never as simple as a "white man is a white man" or an "asian is an asian"

 

[MatthewKnight]

Double post.