Interesting view on Abortion - Please Participate (FOR EVERY MEMBERS OF THE FORUM)

[Archivist]

I have known women who have had abortions for much sillier reasons and all of them were quite legal. My point was that a "health of the mother " exception encompasses any health reason and therefore allows for abortions at any stage of pregnancy for any silly reason whatsoever. I have known women who were talked into abortions because they were taking arthritis medication, because they drank a few beers or because they were hypochondriacs. These were all "health reasons". Pro-aborts would have people believe that all abortions are needed because millions of women are going to fall over dead if they dare bring their pregnancy to term. The "health of the mother exception" is just an excuse to keep abortion legal.
Even before Roe V. Wade (Roe-Norma McCorvey is a pro-life activist now) it was legal to have an abortion for serious health risks. My Mother could have legally aborted me because she was so ill. We both survived.

So in other words you have absolutely no evidence to back your claim that women are having abortions because their back hurt and claiming is is being done to protect their health.

 

[Monica02]

So in other words you have absolutely no evidence to back your claim that women are having abortions because their back hurt and claiming is is being done to protect their health.

I never said that I did. I stated that "health of the mother" could mean anything, including that her back hurt.

 

[Fuzzy]

I have known women who were talked into abortions because they were taking arthritis medication, because they drank a few beers

Dependent on what side effects the medication has on the fetus, or the
severity of the arthritis, abortion would consider the health of the mother
and/or the fetus.

Drinking while pregnant leads to fetal alcohol syndrome.

Your examples can just as easily be flipped to regard the quality of life
on the fetus, but that's a debate that could stand on its own.

Pro-aborts would have people believe that all abortions are needed because millions of women are going to fall over dead if they dare bring their pregnancy to term.

"Pro-aborts" want a woman to have the choice to have their abortion
performed in safe, or safer, surroundings, hence the term "pro-choice."

My Mother could have legally aborted me because she was so ill. We both survived.

And she made a choice. Not every person on the planet is like you or your
mother. I don't mean that as an insult, I'm just saying that people are
different.

 

[Archivist]

I never said that I did. I stated that "health of the mother" could mean anything, including that her back hurt.

You are STILL ignoring my question. Yes or no, do you know of any specific instances where this reason has been used.

 

[Monica02]

Dependent on what side effects the medication has on the fetus, or the
severity of the arthritis, abortion would consider the health of the mother
and/or the fetus.

Drinking while pregnant leads to fetal alcohol syndrome.

Your examples can just as easily be flipped to regard the quality of life
on the fetus, but that's a debate that could stand on its own.

"Pro-aborts" want a woman to have the choice to have their abortion
performed in safe, or safer, surroundings, hence the term "pro-choice."


And she made a choice. Not every person on the planet is like you or your
mother. I don't mean that as an insult, I'm just saying that people are
different.

Drinking in excess may lead to fetal alcohol syndrome.

Medication might have side effects.

Even in the rare cases when a fetus is damaged by medication or alcohol, why is it okay to kill the little human?

Pro-choice - a verbally engineered term used by the pro-aborts to put a nice face on the killing of the unborn.

I sure am glad my mother made that "choice". I will just bet you are glad your mother "chose" not to kill you in her womb.

 

[pthalomarie]

Pro-choice - a verbally engineered term used by the pro-aborts to put a nice face on the killing of the unborn.

Is there any word that is not, to some degree, "verbally engineered"?

 

[Monica02]

Is there any word that is not, to some degree, "verbally engineered"?

Well, maybe and maybe not. Cartainly there are many out there that are. Pro-choice is one that puts a nice face on the killing of the unborn.

 

[pthalomarie]

Well, maybe and maybe not. Cartainly there are many out there that are.

Can you give me an example of word that is not?

As for your statement about abortion being available when the mother's health was a concern, that was only true during the 60's, when such exceptions were made. But those exceptions were different, from state to state.

 

[Monica02]

Thats when I was born, in the 60's. In 1973, abortions were made legal for any reason.

The word "word " is just a word.

 

[Fuzzy]

Drinking in excess may lead to fetal alcohol syndrome.

Medication might have side effects.

Even in the rare cases when a fetus is damaged by medication or alcohol, why is it okay to kill the little human?

That would be a "Quality of Life" issue, which should probably have its
own thread.

Pro-choice - a verbally engineered term used by the pro-aborts to put a nice face on the killing of the unborn.

Pro-Choice is the preferred term because there are people who, while not
seeking abortions for themselves, do see that others should have the ability
to decide that for themselves rather than others choosing for them.

If you'd prefer, I can refer to you as "anti-choice," but, like the media, I
prefer to use the terms "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice, since it gives both
parties a "nice face."

I sure am glad my mother made that "choice". I will just bet you are glad your mother "chose" not to kill you in her womb.

That your mother or my mother had us is not the issue. Our mothers had
reasons for having us. Our mothers' point of view, however, is not the
exact same point of view as other potential mothers, or existing mothers,
in the rest of the country. The issue is that those other people should have
the option of an abortion if they so choose.

 

[Monica02]

That would be a "Quality of Life" issue, which should probably have its
own thread.


Pro-Choice is the preferred term because there are people who, while not
seeking abortions for themselves, do see that others should have the ability
to decide that for themselves rather than others choosing for them.

If you'd prefer, I can refer to you as "anti-choice," but, like the media, I
prefer to use the terms "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice, since it gives both
parties a "nice face."


That your mother or my mother had us is not the issue. Our mothers had
reasons for having us. Our mothers' point of view, however, is not the
exact same point of view as other potential mothers, or existing mothers,
in the rest of the country. The issue is that those other people should have
the option of an abortion if they so choose.

Who determines what "quality of life is"? I am sure different people would view my quality of life and yours as very poor or exceptional. Perhaps I could determine that your quality of life is not what I feel it should be and I could therefore kill you.

Pro-choice to do what? Pro-choice to have anabortion? Pro-choice to eat pizza or a hot dog? Pro-choice to own a slave. Pro-aborts should finish the statement or that wicked term could, and does, mean just about anything.

The media uses the term "pro-life"? Not very often!

You can use any term you like to describe my view on abortion, it does not change the fact that I am opposed to the direct killing of an innocent human in his/her mother's womb.

The fact that my mother did not kill me and your mother did not kill you is a very important issue.

Does your right to your life depend on your mother's point of view?

 

[Fuzzy]

Who determines what "quality of life is"? I am sure different people would view my quality of life and yours as very poor or exceptional. Perhaps I could determine that your quality of life is not what I feel it should be and I could therefore kill you.

"Quality of life" is determined via the court system and medical science,
based on the average human living condition, and most frequently considers
the physical development or existence of the person as compared to their
contemporaries. "Quality of Life" is most often an issue with comatose
or vegetative patients being kept alive by extensive equipment, but has been
applied to victims of congenital birth defects or accidents in the past.
"Quality of life" is determined via comparison of a person's life before
an incident (such as an auto wreck) and after the incident, or a comparison
between the lives of two people in the same demographic (age, gender,
location, level of education, etc.) In cases of death, "Quality of life" is
applied to the victim's survivors, though most commonly in civil suits versus
criminal suits.

Pro-choice to do what? Pro-choice to have anabortion? Pro-choice to eat pizza or a hot dog? Pro-choice to own a slave. Pro-aborts should finish the statement or that wicked term could, and does, mean just about anything.

"Pro-Choice" as a colloquialism is agreed to reference abortions.

You can use any term you like to describe my view on abortion, it does not change the fact that I am opposed to the direct killing of an innocent human in his/her mother's womb.

And no one is denying you your opinion on the matter. What is being denied
is the de facto blanket enforcement of your opinion on other people.

The fact that my mother did not kill me and your mother did not kill you is a very important issue.

I disagree, but acknowledge your opinion on the matter. They each had a
choice, and in my case, my mother had the option at a time when she could
have done it for private reasons. I respect their choices.

Does your right to your life depend on your mother's point of view?

Are you referring to my conception and eventual birth, or my life as it is
right now?

My entire existence depends on both of my parents. They decided to have
me. If I'd been aborted, there's no way for me to have known what I may have missed. It was up to them to decide to conceive, her to decide to
carry, and for a short time him to decide to provide, then she went back to
work. As a Wiccan, I believe in reincarnation. If I'd been aborted, there
would have been no change to my Otherworld existence. I possibly could
have waited a little longer for the next trip on the Wheel, but in a place
where time has little meaning, how would I notice or care? As a person
who believes in the rights granted all citizens of the country I live in, how
can I place my views on someone else without their consent or a legally
recognized arrangement allowing me to do so?

 

[Monica02]

I sure respect my parent's decision to not kill me!!!

I see no difference between life at conception and life later- it is all human life.

There ore those who hold the view that child molestation is just dandy and those who hold the view that it is not. How could those anti-choice (to molest children) people push thier view on the pro-choice (to molest children)?

 

[Fuzzy]

There ore those who hold the view that child molestation is just dandy and those who hold the view that it is not. How could those anti-choice (to molest children) people push thier view on the pro-choice (to molest children)?

Through social contract between all members of the civilization.

Society X has laws stating that child molestation is wrong.
A percentage of members of Society X feel that molestation is
wrong. Through politicking, legislation, and common opinion,
"molestation=wrong" is reinforced. Those who are in favor of
molestation have three choices. They can change the law, they
can violate the law, or they can leave X and form society Y.
I am unaware of any completely successful challenges to
molestation laws. There have been successful challenges regarding
the terms of the law, such as different criteria (with different
punishments) such as (Adult Male/Minor Female) versus (Adult Female/
Minor Male) versus (Adult/Minor, same gender) being streamlined
to (Adult/Minor, regardless of gender).

Roe v. Wade challenged the validity of the laws in existence at that time,
and Federal authority agreed the laws were invalid. Since Federal authority
is the superior authority, the State laws were overturned, as part of the
State/Federal social contract.

 

[Monica02]

Do you think the Supreme Court Ruling which legalized the killing of the unborn is a just ruling? If the Court ruled that a person has a right to molest a child, would you say that you had no right to impose your anti-choice (to molest children) view on those who are pro-choice (to molest children).

 

[Fuzzy]

Do you think the Supreme Court Ruling which legalized the killing of the unborn is a just ruling?

Yes I do.

If the Court ruled that a person has a right to molest a child, would you say that you had no right to impose your anti-choice (to molest children) view on those who are pro-choice (to molest children).

If the right to molestation became a legally protected right, then yes, I would say that I can't impose my view on those who do practice it without changing
the law to support me. However, I would still have the right to protest,
just as you have the right to protest abortion.

 

[pthalomarie]

Thats when I was born, in the 60's.

Do you agree with the exceptions the 60's laws allowed for?

The word "word " is just a word.

Well, it had to come from someone, somewhere. Somebody, at some point, was the first person to say the word "word." The act of forming new words and new languages is the very same "verbal engineering" that you seem to find so sinister.

Unless, of course, your contention is that words existed before language existed.

 

[anunbeliever]

My view:
1st 9 weeks: a mother can abort for any reason using a drug such as RU486 under the supervision of a GP
weeks 10-16: a mother can abort for any reason, but must first have councilling and be made aware of some peoples opinions of the foetus' moral/ethical status.
weeks 17-22: abortion can only be carried out for extreme medical reasons. ie mothers health is in blatant risk or baby is severely deformed.
weeks 23+: no abortion. Baby can be delivered via caesarian if necessary and is likely to survive.

 

[anunbeliever]

The problem is, your solution could never be applied on a nationwide scale. The market demand for adoption is just plain too small; even now, the number of kids waiting to be adopted exceeds the annual number who get adopted.

WOW! Things must be very different in America. In Australia the waiting list for adopting is 8 years - thats for the PARENTS. There is such a shortage of adoptable children here that couples are going overseas to adopt.

 

[All4one]

This morality issue sickens me. One thing that amazes me is the fact that around election time it is drilled into our heads that voting is SOOOOOO important. Then the same people who make this statement allow murder among those potential voters in years present. What is the greater sin? A childs right to life or a mothers right to have it tortured and killed? After praying and studying this subject for some time I have come to find that abortion is offering a sacrifice to an idol. It is sacrificing life created by God, who by the way created you, to something that you hold more valuable then life itself. Boyfriend, weight, family, adultry, incest, whatever the reason I dare to care. Those who speak for abortion needs to shut their mouths and examine the situation in a first person standpoint. Where would their exclusive voices be had this thing they stand so strongly for taken their own life? If half a brain abided there you may think, " When I was in my mothers womb would I have said abortion is ok?" Most would, undoubtably, say at that time abortion is wrong. Yet, when the smoke clears and everthing looks safe and sound then lets speak for the death of others because... ohhhh it's not me! Grow up! There are many children being demolished every day because the person who made it don't want it! What if God aborted His children because He just does not want them... Or worse, what if Christ had been aborted? These are living breathing humans who experience their first glimpse of life during death! This is a sick subject that, in my view, will not be fully refined untill Christ comes back for so many "Rights" have been given that they have come back to taunt us. When we speak of this matter as a right we only address the rights the devil acquires to the mothers body.

In Love,
All4one