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Interesting article on the 'deconversion' of a Young-Earth creationist

essentialsaltes

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No ... and this is where my Boolean Standards come into play:

1. Bible says X, science says Ø = go with X
2. Bible says X, science says X = go with X
3. Bible says X, science says Y = go with X
4. Bible says Ø, science says Y = go with Y
5. Bible says Ø, science says Ø = speculate

Isn't this case 4? Bible says nothing about a 'cleanup', science says there's a layer of chalk that would take hundreds of thousands of years to form?

Why are you leaping to speculation in this case? Adding something to the Biblical narrative that isn't there?

Maybe you should stick with the job you assigned yourself in the Division of Records & Reporting.
 
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AV1611VET

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AV1611VET

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From an olive tree after the water had receded.
The water, as Genesis puts it, didn't recede ...

Genesis 8:3b ... and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

And note, it doesn't say, "the waters abated."

It says, "the waters were abated."

That's a HUGH difference.

Looks to me like Someone did some cleaning up.

And for the second time, did you see my Sanitary Challenge thread, which was tailor-made for a conversation like we're having now?
 
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essentialsaltes

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The water, as Genesis puts it, didn't recede …

Genesis 8:3b ... and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

And note, it doesn't say, "the waters abated."

It says, "the waters were abated."

Sorry, I mentioned the NIV. But to continue the story in KJV

5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

The waters both actively decreased, and passively were abated, and were dried up. It all seems to be used quite synonymously. The gist of the story is clear. First the tops of mountains appeared, and then (we infer from the leaf) trees were uncovered. And then the land was all dry.

And for the second time, did you see my Sanitary Challenge thread, which was tailor-made for a conversation like we're having now?

I saw it, but it inspired no comment.
 
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AV1611VET

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The gist of the story is clear. First the tops of mountains appeared, and then (we infer from the leaf) trees were uncovered.
Right.

And I'm Genghis Khan.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Right.

And I'm Genghis Khan.

Previously you said, "It's not your job to [finally] interpret it -- it's ours."

Since I have failed, how do you interpret the quoted verses?

When God abated ('cause[d] to become smaller or less intense') the waters, and the tops of mountains were seen... how do you interpret that?
 
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AV1611VET

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Previously you said, "It's not your job to [finally] interpret it -- it's ours."

Since I have failed, how do you interpret the quoted verses?

When God abated ('cause[d] to become smaller or less intense') the waters, and the tops of mountains were seen... how do you interpret that?
God is cleaning up His mess, and not leaving it to Mama Nature.

Put another way, God is ordering the water to stand down.

And, of course, I'm sure you know what I believe as to where the water is now.
 
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essentialsaltes

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God is cleaning up His mess, and not leaving it to Mama Nature. Put another way, God is ordering the water to stand down.

I wrote "First the tops of mountains appeared, and then (we infer from the leaf) trees were uncovered."

And you responded derisively.

Can you explain your objection? Is it that God doesn't appear in the sentence?

Is this any better? God told the waters to stand down, and thus tops of mountains and trees were uncovered.

And, of course, I'm sure you know what I believe as to where the water is now.

I don't remember, if ever I knew. Is it pertinent?
 
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AV1611VET

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I don't remember, if ever I knew. Is it pertinent?
God ordered the waters off the Earth, but the waters didn't just balloon back out into space like they did in Genesis 1:

Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.


... they took a serpentine path to a "siphoning point" (for lack of a better term), and were removed from there.

Psalm 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
Psalm 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
Psalm 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.


My pet theory is that they currently reside on Neptune as a reminder to other angels what happened back then.
 
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essentialsaltes

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My pet theory is that they currently reside on Neptune as a reminder to other angels what happened back then.

Ah, that does ring a bell. Is it Neptune since it's named after the Roman god of the sea?
 
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Strathos

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Well ... given that no one has witnessed their rate of disintegration ...

Irrelevant. We see countless interruptions in the layers of coccoliths, showing many disruption events throughout the history of the formation where sedimentation rate greatly decreased, or earthquakes and landslides caused parts of the formation to collapse, before being rebuilt. This is just one of the many thousands of lines of evidence that show that they were not deposited all at once. There is a detailed history there, whether you like it or not.
 
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Strathos

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Only on paper.

Nope, in the rocks, the trees, genes of living things, and the skies.

Psalms 19:1 said:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

The stars show us a universe billions of years old. Therefore, God is telling us that it is billions of years old. The Bible never directly states the age of the earth or the universe. God probably figured that information to not be relevant to His message of salvation. If we wanted to know more about His creation, we could investigate it for ourselves, and that is what we have done.
 
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Tinker Grey

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Mainly for the lookie-loos, who probably aren't as invested in a particular person's ego.
This forum is never better than when that person goes on hiatus. (And, no, it isn't because we non-believers and skeptics have our way. It is because every thread isn't about that person nor is every thread derailed with that person's hobby-horses.)
 
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