Intelligent Design / Evolution (2)

[Greg1234]

Dr Bryan proposes further experimentation to interact with consciousness at the atomic and sub-atomic level- Conscious Control of an Electron | Bryan | Journal of Consciousness Exploration & Research.

 

[Greg1234]

Consciousness is so dispersed throughout the cells of the body that some source it primarily in the heart and not the brain. The Heart Has Its Own “Brain” and Consciousness - Information that Elevates the Mind and Body – Mindful Muscle Blog

 

[Trogool]

Consciousness is so dispersed throughout the cells of the body that some source it primarily in the heart and not the brain. The Heart Has Its Own "Brain" and Consciousness - Information that Elevates the Mind and Body – Mindful Muscle Blog

that might be the worst mangling of cardiology and neural heart modulation I've ever seen.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[Michael]

that might be the worst mangling of cardiology and neural heart modulation I've ever seen.

That might be the best example of "closed mindedness" I've ever seen.

No wonder you folks can't even begin to accept or discuss the notion of any sort of "intelligence" in a single cell. It's beyond your capacity to accept that any sort of "intelligence" is possible without a "brain". You're therefore stuck in a circular form of logic.

 

[Trogool]

That might be the best example of "closed mindedness" I've ever seen.

You're right. As someone who studies the nervous innervation of the heart and cardiac regulation I am not going to believe some pseudoscience garbage on a blog when I work professionally with actual physiological data and know how it works in reality.

Hint: the vagus.

No wonder you folks can't even begin to accept or discuss the notion of any sort of "intelligence" in a single cell. It's beyond your capacity to accept that any sort of "intelligence" is possible without a "brain". You're therefore stuck in a circular form of logic.

Yes, because unlike you, some of us have an education in science, specifically human physiology, that extends beyond taking high school biology decades ago when you were 15. You people obviously have no idea what you are talking about and literally revel in it. It's honestly just sad.

Here's the relevant paper so you can see there isn't a magic heart field. http://hero.epa.gov/index.cfm?action=reference.details&reference_id=3061

 

[Greg1234]

Hint: the vagus.

So you think Rollin MacCraty, Ph.D. doesn't know about the vargus?.

Here's the relevant paper so you can see there isn't a magic heart field. Heart rate variability: Standards of measurement, physiological interpretation, and clinical use. Task Force of the European Society of Cardiology. North American Society of Pacing and Electrophysiology | Health & Environmental Research Online (HERO)

You missed the point. Emotions affect every one of those. Where there is the cell, there is mind "More specifically, we have demonstrated that sustained positive emotions appear to give rise to a distinct mode of functioning, which we call psychophysiological coherence."

 

[Trogool]

So you think Rollin MacCraty, Ph.D. doesn't know about the vargus?.

Apparently he doesn't.

You missed the point. Emotions affect every one of those. Where there is the cell, there is mind "More specifically, we have demonstrated that sustained positive emotions appear to give rise to a distinct mode of functioning, which we call psychophysiological coherence."

Yes, that would be the brain, not the heart.

 

[Davian]

That might be the best example of "closed mindedness" I've ever seen.

No wonder you folks can't even begin to accept or discuss the notion of any sort of "intelligence" in a single cell. It's beyond your capacity to accept that any sort of "intelligence" is possible without a "brain". You're therefore stuck in a circular form of logic.

I looked at Greg's link, and I don't think that the "Institute of HeartMath" is interested in promoting science as much as they are promoting the purchase of the "emWave® Desktop for Mac and PC Item # 6020 Price: $249.00 De-Stress * Rejuvenate * Perform"

emWave Desktop for Mac and PC

"The emWave Desktop is a scientifically validated hardware/software system that teaches techniques to help you create an optimal state in which the heart, mind and emotions are operating in-sync and balanced. This is achieved through a patented process which displays heart rhythm patterns in real time showing you when you are in this high performance state. We call this coherence."

I would call this "woo" wrapped around a bio-feedback monitor.

 

[Blayz]

mindfulmuscleblog.com

/topic

 

[Michael]

You're right. As someone who studies the nervous innervation of the heart and cardiac regulation I am not going to believe some pseudoscience garbage on a blog when I work professionally with actual physiological data and know how it works in reality.

Hint: the vagus.

As always, your "handwave" includes NO SPECIFIC criticism, no mention at all of any actual error in the presentation.

Yes, because unlike you, some of us have an education in science, specifically human physiology, that extends beyond taking high school biology decades ago when you were 15.

Blah, blah, attack the messenger, blah. Typical below the belt debate tactics. How predictable.

Here's the relevant paper so you can see there isn't a magic heart field. Heart rate variability: Standards of measurement, physiological interpretation, and clinical use. Task Force of the European Society of Cardiology. North American Society of Pacing and Electrophysiology | Health & Environmental Research Online (HERO)

Nobody said anything about a MAGIC field. All the article mentioned is that the magnetic side of the EM field is many OOM more powerful than anything produced in the brain. Wow. Anytime you seem to disagree with anything, you go right to handwaves and personal attacks as your primary means of debate methods. Talk about SAD........

 

[Trogool]

As always, your "handwave" includes NO SPECIFIC criticism, no mention at all of any actual error in the presentation.

Sure, fine. This isn't particularly difficult.



"Research in the new discipline of neurocardiology shows that the heart is a sensory organ and a sophisticated center for receiving and processing information. The nervous system within the heart (or “heart brain”) enables it to learn, remember, and make functional decisions independent of the brain’s cerebral cortex. Moreover, numerous experiments have demonstrated that the signals the heart continuously sends to the brain influence the function of higher brain centers involved in perception, cognition, and emotional processing"

This is insane BS with no basis in reality. Note the complete and utter absence of any in-text citations. I might as well be quoting Stephenie Meyer's Twilight as an example of cutting-edge genetics. It is equivalent to what you are doing here.

 

[Michael]

I looked at Greg's link, and I don't think that the "Institute of HeartMath" is interested in promoting science as much as they are promoting the purchase of the "emWave® Desktop for Mac and PC Item # 6020 Price: $249.00 De-Stress * Rejuvenate * Perform"

emWave Desktop for Mac and PC

"The emWave Desktop is a scientifically validated hardware/software system that teaches techniques to help you create an optimal state in which the heart, mind and emotions are operating in-sync and balanced. This is achieved through a patented process which displays heart rhythm patterns in real time showing you when you are in this high performance state. We call this coherence."

I would call this "woo" wrapped around a bio-feedback monitor.

Hmmm. You're probably right about the fact that there is a profit motive in there, however meditation has proven to have beneficial health effects.

The Benefits of Meditation | Psychology Today

The bio-monitor itself is optional however as it relates to those health benefits. It's not necessarily "woo", so much as "questionable advertizing" without really mentioning/including the meditation process that is necessary to make it a "beneficial" process.

 

[Michael]

Sure, fine. This isn't particularly difficult.



"Research in the new discipline of neurocardiology shows that the heart is a sensory organ and a sophisticated center for receiving and processing information. The nervous system within the heart (or “heart brain”) enables it to learn, remember, and make functional decisions independent of the brain’s cerebral cortex. Moreover, numerous experiments have demonstrated that the signals the heart continuously sends to the brain influence the function of higher brain centers involved in perception, cognition, and emotional processing"

....Note the complete and utter absence of any in-text citations.

Hey, what do you know! You actually ARE capable of offering a legitimate scientific criticism.

 

[Greg1234]

Dr Alva Noe is interviewed by Deepak Chopra and explains how consciousness, rather than simply being a product of the brain, is actually distributed throughout the entire body. Deepak Chopra: You Are Not Your Brain: Interview With Alva Noe, Ph.D.

"In fact if you ask a good neurobiologist today, what's the difference between the immune system and the nervous system? Many neurobiologists who keep up with their literature will tell you that there isn't a clear difference. Your immune cells are like a circulating nervous system. Your nervous system in fact is a circulating nervous system. It thinks. It's conscious. But as we start to look at the rest of the body we start to find the same phenomena. So when scientists begin to look at stomach cells for example, stomach cells also make the same peptides the brain makes. In fact if you say "I have a gut feeling about such and such," you're not only speaking metaphorically but you might be speaking literally because your gut makes the same chemicals that your brain makes when it's thinking."​

 

[Davian]

Dr Alva Noe is interviewed by Deepak Chopra and explains how consciousness, rather than simply being a product of the brain, is actually distributed throughout the entire body. Deepak Chopra: You Are Not Your Brain: Interview With Alva Noe, Ph.D.

"In fact if you ask a good neurobiologist today, what's the difference between the immune system and the nervous system? Many neurobiologists who keep up with their literature will tell you that there isn't a clear difference. Your immune cells are like a circulating nervous system. Your nervous system in fact is a circulating nervous system. It thinks. It's conscious. But as we start to look at the rest of the body we start to find the same phenomena. So when scientists begin to look at stomach cells for example, stomach cells also make the same peptides the brain makes. In fact if you say "I have a gut feeling about such and such," you're not only speaking metaphorically but you might be speaking literally because your gut makes the same chemicals that your brain makes when it's thinking."​

Do you realize that the quoted text is from Deepak Chopra's own preamble, not the actual interview Alva Noe?

Are you familiar with Alva Noe's concepts? Does he suggest that the source of consciousness is anything over than biological?

 

[Greg1234]

Do you realize that the quoted text is from Deepak Chopra's own preamble, not the actual interview Alva Noe?

Are you familiar with Alva Noe's concepts? Does he suggest that the source of consciousness is anything over than biological?

Did you read the interview?

Apparently he doesn't.

Well he does.

Yes, that would be the brain, not the heart.

Emotions affect all cells and give rise to many types of afflictions.

 

[Davian]

Did you read the interview?

Yes, which is why I saw that your quoted text is from Deepak Chopra's own preamble, and not from where he interviews Alva Noe.

Did you see that? Did you present Deepak's words as Alva Noe's by mistake?

Are you familiar with Alva Noe's concepts? Does he suggest that the source of consciousness is anything over than biological?

And, have you retracted your offer of assistance over here?

 

[Greg1234]

Yes, which is why I saw that your quoted text is from Deepak Chopra's own preamble, and not from where he interviews Alva Noe.

Did you see that? Did you present Deepak's words as Alva Noe's by mistake?

Are you familiar with Alva Noe's concepts? Does he suggest that the source of consciousness is anything over than biological?

The quote is only a preview. You can find more in the linked interview.

And, have you retracted your offer of assistance over here?

Maybe some other time.

 

[Greg1234]

Brief discussions on thought altering DNA-

Happiness And Optimism 'Can Change Your DNA' Delving Into Mind Over Matter

Emotions Affect Your DNA - Balanced Existence

Emotions Affect Us at the DNA Level - Wellsphere

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Brief discussions on thought altering DNA-

Happiness And Optimism 'Can Change Your DNA' Delving Into Mind Over Matter

Emotions Affect Your DNA - Balanced Existence

Emotions Affect Us at the DNA Level - Wellsphere

New age crap.