Intellectualism

[Supplanter]

Does intellectualism hinder faith?

I ask because I had a friend who I went to grad school with who was at one time a professing Christian, became agnostic, and then told me one day about a year into our grad program that she didn't understand how I could know all that I know and be so smart and still have faith in God.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Does intellectualism hinder faith?

I ask because I had a friend who I went to grad school with who was at one time a professing Christian, became agnostic, and then told me one day about a year into our grad program that she didn't understand how I could know all that I know and be so smart and still have faith in God.

Depends on how you define "intellectualism". I don't think being an intellectual hinders faith any more than being an anti-intellectual does. The problem with apostates is that their loyalty was never fully to Jesus in the first place.

 

[pinetree]

Welp..
I suppose to the person that thinks they are in charge it can,to those who know faith and grace run hand in hand it doesn't.

In 1 cor the implication is that the natural mind cant percieve things of the spirit.But we have the mind of Christ,that we can renew.

 

[BRISH]

Does intellectualism hinder faith?

I ask because I had a friend who I went to grad school with who was at one time a professing Christian, became agnostic, and then told me one day about a year into our grad program that she didn't understand how I could know all that I know and be so smart and still have faith in God.

Don't know the answer but personally there's just something about experiencing God and realizing that there really is no way to explain it "intellectually". He just is, and he's soo real and I can't explain it and honestly don't want to. I'll live it and still be the smart cookie I feel I am and hopefully I can be an influence to whoever crosses my path to possibly experience the faith themselves.

I DONT KNOW!!!

 

[Supplanter]

Depends on how you define "intellectualism". I don't think being an intellectual hinders faith any more than being an anti-intellectual does. The problem with apostates is that their loyalty was never fully to Jesus in the first place.

I agree, her loyalty was never fully to Jesus, but i always wonder how highly intellectual people could not have faith. The more I learn, the more it verifies that there is indeed a God. As for the definition:

in·tel·lec·tu·al·ism Pronunciation: \ˌin-tə-ˈlek-chə-wə-ˌli-zəm, -chə-ˌli-, -shwə-ˌli-, -chü(-&#601-ˌli-\ Function:noun Date:1838 : devotion to the exercise of intellect or to intellectual pursuits
— in·tel·lec·tu·al·ist \-list\ noun or adjective
— in·tel·lec·tu·al·is·tic \-ˌlek-chə-wə-ˈlis-tik, -chə-ˈlis-, -shwə-ˈlis-, -chü(-&#601-ˈlis-\ adjective

I would perhaps add that I want to look at the merits/demerits of intellectualism in the development of faith.

 

[Paul1965]

I agree, her loyalty was never fully to Jesus, but i always wonder how highly intellectual people could not have faith. The more I learn, the more it verifies that there is indeed a God. As for the definition:

I would perhaps add that I want to look at the merits/demerits of intellectualism in the development of faith.

I look at intellectuals as thinkers. I believe true Christians are thinkers. Therefore, Christians are intellectuals. Is it possible to be an intellectual without being a Christian? I believe only for a while, for if the thought process does not lead to God and Christ, then the intellect ceases to exist!
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline." Proverbs 1:7

 

[fated]

The effect isn't marked with Catholics and is apparently non-existent with Jews. So, I'd say that the answer is no, as long as you have a philosophy that seeks the truth.

 

[Paul1965]

My wife thinks: sounds like your friend has been disappointed in her faith. Betrayal? Trauma? Unanswered prayer? What are you and her studying in grad school? Could it have any relevance to her losing her faith?

 

[ARBITER01]

Does intellectualism hinder faith?

Yes it can, because faith is a revealed knowledge from GOD in our spirits, and a person who reasons things out with their mind all the time will have a hindrance to such things they can't explain or control.

The choice of tree of life or the tree of knowledge of good and evil is still before us even after being born again.

 

[Supplanter]

My wife thinks: sounds like your friend has been disappointed in her faith. Betrayal? Trauma? Unanswered prayer? What are you and her studying in grad school? Could it have any relevance to her losing her faith?

Oh, we've been out for awhile and of course there is a whole lot more to her story but her and I have had long discussions about all of that and I witnessed to her a great deal. This is an issue that I've been contemplating for awhile. We were both working on our Master's in Secondary English Education at the time, though and we were taking a practicum and a History of the English Language course at the time. I don't remember what else.

I'd define myself as an intellectual, but I often wonder if we as Christians today don't spend too much time over-thinking instead of just acting in faith. Are we not to become like little children to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? The wonderful thing about children is that they are ever curious and, yet readily accept answers to their questions even if it leads to a string of "whys".

 

[Supplanter]

I look at intellectuals as thinkers. I believe true Christians are thinkers. Therefore, Christians are intellectuals. Is it possible to be an intellectual without being a Christian? I believe only for a while, for if the thought process does not lead to God and Christ, then the intellect ceases to exist!
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline." Proverbs 1:7

Yes it can, because faith is a revealed knowledge from GOD in our spirits, and a person who reasons things out with their mind all the time will have a hindrance to such things they can't explain or control.

The choice of tree of life or the tree of knowledge of good and evil is still before us even after being born again.

These are both excellent points.

 

[Supplanter]

The effect isn't marked with Catholics and is apparently non-existent with Jews. So, I'd say that the answer is no, as long as you have a philosophy that seeks the truth.

Could you expound upon this? How is the effect not marked among Catholics or Jews?

 

[Desperaux]

Does intellectualism hinder faith?

I ask because I had a friend who I went to grad school with who was at one time a professing Christian, became agnostic, and then told me one day about a year into our grad program that she didn't understand how I could know all that I know and be so smart and still have faith in God.

It is subtle but I firmly believe that there are many in the Body of Christ who seek higher learning as their desire and not necessarily God's leading. Many actually place education before the Lord, which makes it an idol in their lives.

The secular world them gets a hold of their minds and hearts and they no sooner have their degrees and they are gone from the churches, and their love for Jesus waxes cool.

 

[NorrinRadd]

If the intellectualism takes the form of

-- believing that everything that *might* have a "natural" explanation *must* have a natural explanation

-- believing that anything that does not neatly fit within the rules of logic must be false

... then yes, it can hinder faith.

 

[Leimeng]

~ True intellectualism is quite friendly to Christianity because it involves inquiry into tough questions.
~ One of the problems is that Christians allow trite theological formulae and phrases to define their existance and demonstrate very little visible logical thinking in their opinions. (Opinions are like armpitts or butts, everyone has em but I don't want to smell yours...)
~ Oftentimes serious questions are asked and so called pastors are not willing to say they do not have an answer (dishonesty) or are otherwise unwilling to enter into to dialogue with that person. You will hear dismissals such as "oh, that is not really important," followed by a complete change of topic or totally ignoring the individual who poses the question. As a grad student who hangs out with other grad students I have heard this a LOT from some area pastors. Needless to say, I do not bring my friends and associates around to those congregations and pastors again. A lot of people in leadership, as well as inmature Christians are unwilling to listen to others, or afraid of sounding like they don't know something. Pride and arrogance...
** An example:
There is this idea among a lot of Baptist and Chinese churches that the "Chinese Intellectuals" are hard hearted and thus they need to focus on winning the "Chinese Intellectuals" so that they can save China. (There is a LOT of faulty reasoning in that statement but that is besides the point for this discussion.) However I know multiple of these "Chinese Intellectuals." I am talking about people who have multiple PhDs, senior judges, lawyers, philosophers etc... They HATE going to these sort of Baptist and Chinese churches because they feel the pastors are members are patronizing them and dismissing their questions. However, most of them have read the Bible cover to cover (sometimes several times in both English and Chinese) and know the topics and stories in detail but have questions. (What works here is having them record themselves reading the Bible outloud and then listening to it. That is another topic as well.) They love to discuss and learn about the Bible and Christianity and Christ. They despise the so called pastors and leaders because of their arrogance and patronizing attitude.
~ Several of my associates and professors grew up in the intellecutual environment of calvinism. After a while they realize that the fatalism of this theological system is flawed in that sin cannot exist as all things happen because God wills it. Thus they lose their opposition to sin because God wants it to happen and are willing to accept anything.
~ A third reason would be in that people who are pursuing an academic career (evinced by matriculation in a Doctorate program) are generally intellectual in leaning. As a fellow 'intellectual,' one of the hardest things to overcome in the past was the issue of knowing about God as opposed to knowing God. Devouring books about theology and the various of schools there-of is an intellectually pleasing task. It make one seem spiritual but it hinders a real relationship. (Yet another reason that theology is not necessarily a good thing to study.) Please note that a lot of individuals, organizations, websites and book authors who are good at intellectual arguments have NO genuine personal relationship with Christ. They just know about Him.
~ These are the three major reasons I see for the problem of intellectualism and Christianity.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[JimB]

Does intellectualism hinder faith?

I ask because I had a friend who I went to grad school with who was at one time a professing Christian, became agnostic, and then told me one day about a year into our grad program that she didn't understand how I could know all that I know and be so smart and still have faith in God.

Sure.

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Cor. 1)
​

But then stupidity hinders faith, too, especially the willful kind of stupidity--and the fact is, some intellectuals have that kind of stupidity.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

 

[JimB]

Having said what I did in the previous post, I still have a great fondness for agnostics, atheists, and secular humanists who have put all (or most) of their eggs in the scientific basket where they can analyze them. I have a brother-in-law who is a committed “secular humanists.” He prefers that title because he thinks “agnostic” and “atheist” carry too much baggage and seem to rile Christians. Personally, I think his intellectual mind is wrestling with his heart. His mind prefers science; his heart is groping for faith. So, when we are talking I aim for the heart, not the head and prefer to let him see my faith by my works and not my words as James 2.18 says.

Since the natural mind cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God because they seem foolish to him (1 Cor. 2.14), I try not to quote scripture, talk church talk, or try to match him on scientific stuff. I just express love for God and people in all that I say and do. After all, the Bible does not say the world will know we are Christians by what we say or our bumper-stickers and T-shirts, but by our love for others. I may sometimes appear dumb to him but intellect never changed a human heart, but love will.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

 

[probinson]

It depends if one has renewed their mind.

 

[JEBrady]

Intellectualism is kind of a personality trait, or tendency, on the part of some people. Like anything else, if it becomes out of order, it will be a hindrance. Christianity isn't primarily a matter of intellect; it's a matter of the heart. God didn't set things up so we have to be "smart" to be saved. We can be brain-damaged cretins and still be saved. The scripture indicates to me, though, that any natural advantage, such as a prodigious intellect, is going to be something of a hindrance since it gives its owner a natural advantage in the world. That would lead to less perceived "need" to rely on God, and increased temptation because of the ability to be successful in the world- not to mention the ability to rationalize one's own error so artfully and well that we completely deceive ourselves.

"There are not many wise according to the flesh among you, not many mighty...".

Sooner or later, someone who relies on their own intellect to an unhealthy degree is going to be faced with making a decision to continue to believe God or believe the apparent "evidence" against their faith that is propagated in the world. God has ordained that His righteous ones shall live by faith and not by sight- not by providing an explanation that satisfies man's intellect.

 

[Yekcidmij]

~ One of the problems is that Christians allow trite theological formulae and phrases to define their existance and demonstrate very little visible logical thinking in their opinions. (Opinions are like armpitts or butts, everyone has em but I don't want to smell yours...)

Ha!

~ Several of my associates and professors grew up in the intellecutual environment of calvinism. After a while they realize that the fatalism of this theological system is flawed in that sin cannot exist as all things happen because God wills it. Thus they lose their opposition to sin because God wants it to happen and are willing to accept anything.

Wow, get your cheap shots in. That's not quite the conclusion calvinism leads to, nor are you representing it properly. It may be your opinion that's what it leads to and that that's what calvinism represents, but we all know what opinions are like...

Devouring books about theology and the various of schools there-of is an intellectually pleasing task. It make one seem spiritual but it hinders a real relationship.

No, it doesn't necessarily hinder a relationship.

(Yet another reason that theology is not necessarily a good thing to study.)

Since theology means "the study of God", why would it not be a good thing to study? Reflecting on and thinking about God seems to be a very good thing.

Please note that a lot of individuals, organizations, websites and book authors who are good at intellectual arguments have NO genuine personal relationship with Christ. They just know about Him.

You could say the same sorts of things about anti-intellectuals.