Insult a police officer? It's fine.

rambot

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Call me a communist sympathizer but certainly we can all agree that this is preeeetty much the definition of a violation of the first amendment non?

Kentucky bill would make it a crime to insult a police officer


Would it reduce the number of times cops use undue force? I wonder if this was the logic behind this decision....
 

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Landon Caeli

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Hmmm... A State dictatorship... Glad I don't live there.

I probably should have read the article before commenting... The title of the article might be a little misleading.
 
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pescador

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What is the legal definition of "insulting a police officer"? By itself, that's quite vague. Suppose I say to a police officer that there is ketchup on his/her shirt. Will I be charged with a crime?
 
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rambot

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To clarify;
.
accosts, insults, taunts, or challenges a law enforcement officer with offensive or derisive words," or makes "gestures or other physical contact that would have a direct tendency to provoke a violent response from the perspective of a reasonable and prudent person."

A person convicted of this misdemeanor charge could also face a $250 fine and be disqualified from public assistance benefits for three months.
 
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Moral Orel

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Would it reduce the number of times cops use undue force?
Sort of. It'll increase the number of times that "force is due".
 
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Hazelelponi

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To clarify;

Yes I think the key portion of this is in this:

"that would have a direct tendency to provoke a violent response from the perspective of a reasonable and prudent person."

There are ways to cross the line - not that cops appreciate being questioned at any rate. Generally if you have any problem with any ticket, arrest or any other police action the court system is the place to take up the grievance rather than with the officer himself and it's always better to offer the officer respect... you usually receive it in return when you do - and are far less memorable to the officer if you do challenge in court... *always a plus.
 
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Anthony2019

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Call me a communist sympathizer but certainly we can all agree that this is preeeetty much the definition of a violation of the first amendment non?

Kentucky bill would make it a crime to insult a police officer


Would it reduce the number of times cops use undue force? I wonder if this was the logic behind this decision....
Looking at the definition of what classifies as insulting an officer, I would say that the penalty is "fair cop".
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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I think this will likely be struck down by courts. It's already a crime to assault an officer and the term assault is actually pretty broad as is. This law would broaden what is assault beyond any reasonable definition, IMO.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Ironic that people who want "hate speech" to be banned including books and media deleted, accounts shut down, books removed from the markets by sellers are fine with it happening but when people use "hate speech" towards police officers who are already severely stressed by a potential media outrage for any sort of confrontation between them and blacks that I believe often (not necessarily on purpose) taunt the police into attacking them and when that occurs there is no mention of "hate speech" used against the officer. In some countries now it is already a crime for certain (what is considered) "hate speech" but if you truly think about it, "hateful comments" ARE "hate speech" but "hateful comments" on anyone that the left "protects" changed from "comments" to "speech".

The left get extremely outraged over hateful comments towards people but IGNORE them toward people like police officers whose lives are already many times more stressful than politicians lives are as they can be harmed... even killed in interactions that "ramp up" between people. Police officers are trained to handle verbal abuse but that doesn't make them immune to the stress in a situation where things continue to ramp up at all.

Now I'm not one to ban hateful comments that aren't realistically condoning criminal actions and often we have disagreements between police and the public, but I think however that things are continuing to ramp up in interactions to a level now that goes beyond what is "speech" that is hateful to what many considers "goading". Some may not like forum rules here about "goading" and I'm not totally familiar with them in their entirety but I think most can agree that people do try to "entice" others into attacking them by their "speech" or rhetoric and some are a lot better at it than others. I think that this enticing or goading is becoming more and more of a problem in society and often PURPOSELY ignored because it isn't politically profitable to point it out because when added into the equation it can swerve public opinion against the one that is goading the other.
We have seen Trump all the time goad the left with his comments and the left excoriated him over them, in other words they "took the bait" and attacked him for the comments. We have similar things going on against police officers constantly and it is getting worse and worse I think because people are realizing this behavior is profitable and although it does serve a purpose to often point out hypocrisy most often it just ends up ramping things up to a point that violence occurs.

If the left wants to push laws banning hate speech, they already ban it without laws now, then a government essentially legally censuring "hate speech" or comments against their officers should be right at home with them. If we see huge outrage from the left over this I would in a way.... chuckle because that is EXACTLY what they wish to do.... criminalize speech but against their "pet" minorities, that is the ones that follow their ideology, not those who reject it, usually they are fair game to make "hate comments".
 
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Arcangl86

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Ironic that people who want "hate speech" to be banned including books and media deleted, accounts shut down, books removed from the markets by sellers are fine with it happening but when people use "hate speech" towards police officers who are already severely stressed by a potential media outrage for any sort of confrontation between them and blacks that I believe often (not necessarily on purpose) taunt the police into attacking them and when that occurs there is no mention of "hate speech" used against the officer. In some countries now it is already a crime for certain (what is considered) "hate speech" but if you truly think about it, "hateful comments" ARE "hate speech" but "hateful comments" on anyone that the left "protects" changed from "comments" to "speech".

The left get extremely outraged over hateful comments towards people but IGNORE them toward people like police officers whose lives are already many times more stressful than politicians lives are as they can be harmed... even killed in interactions that "ramp up" between people. Police officers are trained to handle verbal abuse but that doesn't make them immune to the stress in a situation where things continue to ramp up at all.

Now I'm not one to ban hateful comments that aren't realistically condoning criminal actions and often we have disagreements between police and the public, but I think however that things are continuing to ramp up in interactions to a level now that goes beyond what is "speech" that is hateful to what many considers "goading". Some may not like forum rules here about "goading" and I'm not totally familiar with them in their entirety but I think most can agree that people do try to "entice" others into attacking them by their "speech" or rhetoric and some are a lot better at it than others. I think that this enticing or goading is becoming more and more of a problem in society and often PURPOSELY ignored because it isn't politically profitable to point it out because when added into the equation it can swerve public opinion against the one that is goading the other.
We have seen Trump all the time goad the left with his comments and the left excoriated him over them, in other words they "took the bait" and attacked him for the comments. We have similar things going on against police officers constantly and it is getting worse and worse I think because people are realizing this behavior is profitable and although it does serve a purpose to often point out hypocrisy most often it just ends up ramping things up to a point that violence occurs.

If the left wants to push laws banning hate speech, they already ban it without laws now, then a government essentially legally censuring "hate speech" or comments against their officers should be right at home with them. If we see huge outrage from the left over this I would in a way.... chuckle because that is EXACTLY what they wish to do.... criminalize speech but against their "pet" minorities, that is the ones that follow their ideology, not those who reject it, usually they are fair game to make "hate comments".
I'm not aware of any efforts to criminalize hate speech. Can you show me one of those proposed laws?
 
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Rachel20

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I'm glad the Republican Party is finally abandoning its facade of caring about constitutional rights and limited government power.

As a conservative, I am too. Government continually grows, no matter which party is in power, and it was Bush who gave us the Patriot Act, not to mention they all sign the NDAA, even Trump, which effectively stomps due process.
 
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Sophrosyne

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I'm not aware of any efforts to criminalize hate speech. Can you show me one of those proposed laws?
It is already happened in Canada, cancel culture is IMO the last step in the chain when that doesn't satisfy the left there will be a guaranteed push to do so. I'm against criminalizing speech in general and also against calling things "hate speech" as (to me) it is more about pandering to "snowflakes". Speaking of snowflakes we don't seem to be hearing that term much any more. I will say this (may not be popular with the right) I think that passing laws against "speech" against the police is IMO putting them in the category of "snowflakes" and I think it can set a bad precedent. I do think that when it comes to judging someone with an actual crime and determining mistreatment and even police brutality that hateful rhetoric definitely needs to be considered. If someone doesn't provoke or incite the police by their speech then definitely we have bad policing but when someone is goading others by their words, logic can conclude they are more apt to be MORE combative and resist the authority a police officer has in a situation. Police officers need to be respected, not as the individual they are but for the task that they are hired to do. Without police we would be back in the days of the old west and "hate speech" would very often escalate into a fight and then likely death. Our nature as individuals often are related to our respect that we give to others, deserved or not. Those who have no respect for another often are too easily able to make "hateful comments" and their personality may even thrive on conflict.
Now that the left has the ability to push through most anything in Washington without any votes from the right the chance of legislating punishment for "hate speech" is very real. If they don't pack the Supreme court the legislation could fail to be legal law. If they pack the Supreme court then almost anything that is shoved through the House will almost likely be upheld and until the Supreme court leans back to the right it will stand as such.
If the left are vigilant they will pack the Supreme Court before they push "hate speech" legislation and look to be all sorts of "protection" for their "pet" minorities in it too.
 
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Arcangl86

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It is already happened in Canada, cancel culture is IMO the last step in the chain when that doesn't satisfy the left there will be a guaranteed push to do so. I'm against criminalizing speech in general and also against calling things "hate speech" as (to me) it is more about pandering to "snowflakes". Speaking of snowflakes we don't seem to be hearing that term much any more. I will say this (may not be popular with the right) I think that passing laws against "speech" against the police is IMO putting them in the category of "snowflakes" and I think it can set a bad precedent. I do think that when it comes to judging someone with an actual crime and determining mistreatment and even police brutality that hateful rhetoric definitely needs to be considered. If someone doesn't provoke or incite the police by their speech then definitely we have bad policing but when someone is goading others by their words, logic can conclude they are more apt to be MORE combative and resist the authority a police officer has in a situation. Police officers need to be respected, not as the individual they are but for the task that they are hired to do. Without police we would be back in the days of the old west and "hate speech" would very often escalate into a fight and then likely death. Our nature as individuals often are related to our respect that we give to others, deserved or not. Those who have no respect for another often are too easily able to make "hateful comments" and their personality may even thrive on conflict.
Now that the left has the ability to push through most anything in Washington without any votes from the right the chance of legislating punishment for "hate speech" is very real. If they don't pack the Supreme court the legislation could fail to be legal law. If they pack the Supreme court then almost anything that is shoved through the House will almost likely be upheld and until the Supreme court leans back to the right it will stand as such.
If the left are vigilant they will pack the Supreme Court before they push "hate speech" legislation and look to be all sorts of "protection" for their "pet" minorities in it too.
So you can't. Got it.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Ironic that people who want "hate speech" to be banned including books and media deleted, accounts shut down, books removed from the markets by sellers are fine with it happening but when people use "hate speech" towards police officers who are already severely stressed by a potential media outrage for any sort of confrontation between them and blacks that I believe often (not necessarily on purpose) taunt the police into attacking them and when that occurs there is no mention of "hate speech" used against the officer. In some countries now it is already a crime for certain (what is considered) "hate speech" but if you truly think about it, "hateful comments" ARE "hate speech" but "hateful comments" on anyone that the left "protects" changed from "comments" to "speech".

The left get extremely outraged over hateful comments towards people but IGNORE them toward people like police officers whose lives are already many times more stressful than politicians lives are as they can be harmed... even killed in interactions that "ramp up" between people. Police officers are trained to handle verbal abuse but that doesn't make them immune to the stress in a situation where things continue to ramp up at all.

Now I'm not one to ban hateful comments that aren't realistically condoning criminal actions and often we have disagreements between police and the public, but I think however that things are continuing to ramp up in interactions to a level now that goes beyond what is "speech" that is hateful to what many considers "goading". Some may not like forum rules here about "goading" and I'm not totally familiar with them in their entirety but I think most can agree that people do try to "entice" others into attacking them by their "speech" or rhetoric and some are a lot better at it than others. I think that this enticing or goading is becoming more and more of a problem in society and often PURPOSELY ignored because it isn't politically profitable to point it out because when added into the equation it can swerve public opinion against the one that is goading the other.
We have seen Trump all the time goad the left with his comments and the left excoriated him over them, in other words they "took the bait" and attacked him for the comments. We have similar things going on against police officers constantly and it is getting worse and worse I think because people are realizing this behavior is profitable and although it does serve a purpose to often point out hypocrisy most often it just ends up ramping things up to a point that violence occurs.

If the left wants to push laws banning hate speech, they already ban it without laws now, then a government essentially legally censuring "hate speech" or comments against their officers should be right at home with them. If we see huge outrage from the left over this I would in a way.... chuckle because that is EXACTLY what they wish to do.... criminalize speech but against their "pet" minorities, that is the ones that follow their ideology, not those who reject it, usually they are fair game to make "hate comments".

There’s a slight difference between preaching hate at minorities and protesting armed agents of the government.
 
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Sophrosyne

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So you can't. Got it.
Give it time, it will happen likely before 2022 elections or maybe just after them depending on how confident the left is about it affecting the elections. France already had to strike down some "hate speech" legislation in their country it went to their Supreme Court I believe, expect the left to use some of that information in their legislating such a bill... soon.
 
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Sophrosyne

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There’s a slight difference between preaching hate at minorities and protesting armed agents of the government.
I think that harming others in riots is worse than a bunch of words that may melt a few snowflakes.
 
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I think that harming others in riots is worse than a bunch of words that may melt a few snowflakes.

Yelling at cops isn’t “hurting others,” unless it’s the cops who are snowflakes.
 
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