Infused vs. Imputed

[Frogster]

You can be justified and not FULLY sanctified . . . romans 7.

Yet.. He sees us holy.


Col 1;22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,

Isn't that the idea of the eternal atonement.See our lamb.



Heb 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

just sayin...

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Yet.. He sees us holy.


Col 1;22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,

Isn't that the idea of the eternal atonement.See our lamb.



Heb 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

just sayin...

Yet.. He sees us holy

Amen. Romans 8:1 hallelujah . . . but notice that the JOY of 8:1 is understood in the context of 7 and the war that yet exists in the Christian who is in the process of sanctification . . . yet not fully sanctified.

Col 1;22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,

Amen again. But notice the "now" is present and the "in order to" is future. Hence the following verse

Col 1:23
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
NASU

where Paul makes the "presentation" contingent upon "if u continue" . . . ergo the presentation is the future act of the presentation of the BRIDE to the BRIDEGROOM at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Isn't that the idea of the eternal atonement.See our lamb.

No I dont see that in the passage that u cited. But I agree in atonement!

Heb 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Amen again. THANK GOD . . . the context tho is not speaking of the practical process of sanctification . . . but the forensic declaration of free from sin. Hence:

Heb 10:4-5
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
NASU

the context being the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ OVER the OT system of bulls and goats . . . the point is the trump over sin . . . the bearing away of the sin from the individual. That is justification language and concept . . . far from Romans 7 which presumes this as having already happened.

So yes, we are HOLY, SAINTS, aggios . . . judicially . . . internally . . . forensically . .. BUT NOT TOTALLY IN PRACTICALITY . . . IOW not completely in practice. Hence Romans 7..

 

[bbbbbbb]

You tell me.

I think on this point I prefer to let the Apostle Paul answer your question.

4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Romans 4:1-12

 

[bugkiller]

You can be justified and not FULLY sanctified . . . romans 7.

You speak of the flesh. I speak of the soul. The flesh is never redeemed.

You are born with a dead soul thanks to grandpa Adam. The soul that sinneth it shall die. It seems that you do not understand death, either. And your flesh will never be redeemed. Your resurrected body if you are a believer will be like Jesus' body. He walked (appeared) right into a room without operating any entrance device and ate real food that could not be seen after eating it. His wounds from the cross could be felt.

It is not your flesh body that is born a second time. I refer you to Jesus discussion with Nicodemus John 3. You have an opportunity to testify by the rite of baptism announcing to the world what can not be seen Rom 6. Not all people who are baptized are Christians. Many churches misuse this as a requirement for membership in their organization.

Yes there is a war going on. I do get tired of it just like Paul testified in Rom 7:24.

Most christians do not understand because they are following the flesh no the Spirit. The reason is because they (including preachers) have not and refuse to read their love letter, the Bible. Instead they listen to religious leaders who are fleecing the sheep (really consuming) and keeping them in jail and a necrophilic relationship with a dead spouce the law - Rom 7.

We can go deeper if you like. It will take a lot of time and lots and lots of posts.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yes. It is at the act of faith as it was with the model that Paul refers to . . . Abram.



Yes. Justification is the declaration of righteousness. For one who lives, the inner change of the heart still must work itself outward thru the flesh . . . but the heart has been changed none the less. Sanctification is the process of the living (IE body is still alive) whereby one walks thru Romans 12:1-3 into a fuller maturity of Christ (Eph 4 calls it "a the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ"). Sanctification is the process of becoming more holy practically which is a result of the forensic FACT of being declared righteouss by faith which is justification.

One can enter into heaven straightaway when one is justified by either
1. Dying, in which there is no more need for sanctification because the person is not wrestling with what is internally changed working itself OUT thru the still unredeemed flesh . . . they are now FULLY sanctified and now await the 2nd advent of Christ for the resurrection of their old bodies into something new.
2. The return of Christ, which instantaeously transforms the flesh they WERE wrestling with INTO the new frame of the resurrected body which no longer has to wrestle with the flesh.

hope this helps

MTK

Hogwash! Bolonga has value or I would have said boloney. John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. and verse 9 says: I am the door: by Me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. and John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

You have sanctification of the soul and the flesh mixed up. The flesh will never be perfect and will not be redeemed.

You need first to fully understand what sanctification is. There are a few bodies who are fully sanctified by the calling of God. Sanctification has nothing to do with sin. Justification or righteousness does.

Those who believe sanctification is the perfection of the fleah are following the flesh and will always have a guilt complex. It is great for religion. It give them (its leaders) control. You can be led of the Spirit if you want. First step is to pray, second step is to read the whole Bible yourself and third ask questions. Preachers don't like me talking about the Bible cause the people haven't heard the Bible from them. Most preachers haven't read the Bible cover to cover either and are only saying what they have been told without examination.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Amen. Romans 8:1 hallelujah . . . but notice that the JOY of 8:1 is understood in the context of 7 and the war that yet exists in the Christian who is in the process of sanctification . . . yet not fully sanctified.



Amen again. But notice the "now" is present and the "in order to" is future. Hence the following verse

Col 1:23
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
NASU

where Paul makes the "presentation" contingent upon "if u continue" . . . ergo the presentation is the future act of the presentation of the BRIDE to the BRIDEGROOM at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

What you're not a Calvinist? Ah, so sad to bad Armenianism is not fully correct either. Now whatcha gonna do?

No I dont see that in the passage that u cited. But I agree in atonement!

So once for all is not a done deal? What languague do you speak?

Amen again. THANK GOD . . . the context tho is not speaking of the practical process of sanctification . . . but the forensic declaration of free from sin. Hence:

Heb 10:4-5
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
NASU

the context being the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ OVER the OT system of bulls and goats . . . the point is the trump over sin . . . the bearing away of the sin from the individual. That is justification language and concept . . . far from Romans 7 which presumes this as having already happened.

You simply can not get over sanctification being the perfection of the flesh, can you? So you just invalidate the Bible because of your unbelief.

So yes, we are HOLY, SAINTS, aggios . . . judicially . . . internally . . . forensically . .. BUT NOT TOTALLY IN PRACTICALITY . . . IOW not completely in practice. Hence Romans 7..

What is redeemed? You can not show anything but the soul being redeemed.


bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Absolutely. Sanctification is the practical, where the wheels meet the road, process of becoming more Christlike. Mortification would be another VERY similiar term (I suppose u could call mortification PART of the process of sanctification). We are untited with Christ in His death and resurrected with Him in His life . . . but the final victory over death and sin are found in the culmination of all things . . . the return of Christ and the gift of the 2nd resurrection to His people.

Romans 7 puts it pretty clear that one who is justified (Paul cannot even have the longings to do good if he is not justified) still wrestles with sin . . . and even fails (praise God for Romans 8:1 then!). The primary culprit in the passage is the members of his physical body . . .

Hey my unsaved anti church drunk neighbor treats me better than a lot of Christians.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Sure. To be born again is to be what? Born of the Spirit. People who are NOT believers are what? Spiritually dead. Dead to God. Tho their spirits are still cognizant . . . they are not alive for they are not in union with the One who IS life.

When one is born again, that spiritual death (the inner propensity to evil, what we call the sinful nature) is gone. The desire, internally, is to please God (Romans 7). What then remains to hamper the Christian? The unredeemed flesh which still enjoys its pleasures and vices. Where as the sinful nature pre-salvation is derived from the spiritual state of death . . . POST salvation that spiritual state is now ALIVE and the effects of what has transpired inwardly must now work out from the inside. Thus the spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit.

So, when this mortal coil is gone . . . any vestiges of sin are now gone too, for the inner reality is actualized throughout the entire being of the Christian.

Hence why our bodies will not simply be raised, as if u and I will have the same EXACT bodies . . . they will ALSO BE TRANSFORMED into the conqueror/overcomer bodies similiar to that of the risen Christ (when He appears we will be like Him) suitable to the presence and holiness of God in the beatific vision.

Yer view of sanctification is nothing more than a works oriented religion dressed in different clothes than the SDA folks present. The nice featue about their version is annihilation. I am not promoting their church either.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I see many who have not set their lives apart for Christ, but even more who have confessed him.

You would be seeing religious folks and the religious Christian. No they are not the same. We have this phenomina because people follow the fleah and not the Spirit. They submit to a religious leader who may or may not be a Christian. There is another kind of religious leader who is a Christian and has not read the Bible themselves I call them empty parrots. TV commentators are called talking heads. Alot of preachers are this way too.

bugkiller

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

You speak of the flesh. I speak of the soul. The flesh is never redeemed.

You are born with a dead soul thanks to grandpa Adam. The soul that sinneth it shall die. It seems that you do not understand death, either. And your flesh will never be redeemed. Your resurrected body if you are a believer will be like Jesus' body. He walked (appeared) right into a room without operating any entrance device and ate real food that could not be seen after eating it. His wounds from the cross could be felt.

It is not your flesh body that is born a second time. I refer you to Jesus discussion with Nicodemus John 3. You have an opportunity to testify by the rite of baptism announcing to the world what can not be seen Rom 6. Not all people who are baptized are Christians. Many churches misuse this as a requirement for membership in their organization.

Yes there is a war going on. I do get tired of it just like Paul testified in Rom 7:24.

Most christians do not understand because they are following the flesh no the Spirit. The reason is because they (including preachers) have not and refuse to read their love letter, the Bible. Instead they listen to religious leaders who are fleecing the sheep (really consuming) and keeping them in jail and a necrophilic relationship with a dead spouce the law - Rom 7.

We can go deeper if you like. It will take a lot of time and lots and lots of posts.

bugkiller

\

You are born with a dead soul thanks to grandpa Adam. The soul that sinneth it shall die. It seems that you do not understand death, either. And your flesh will never be redeemed. Your resurrected body if you are a believer will be like Jesus' body. He walked (appeared) right into a room without operating any entrance device and ate real food that could not be seen after eating it. His wounds from the cross could be felt.

Perhaps you should read all my posts

You speak of the flesh. I speak of the soul. The flesh is never redeemed.

Agreed, again maybe u should read all my posts.

It is not your flesh body that is born a second time. I refer you to Jesus discussion with Nicodemus John 3. You have an opportunity to testify by the rite of baptism announcing to the world what can not be seen Rom 6. Not all people who are baptized are Christians. Many churches misuse this as a requirement for membership in their organization.

Yes there is a war going on. I do get tired of it just like Paul testified in Rom 7:24.

and yet again . . .

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Hogwash! Bolonga has value or I would have said boloney. John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. and verse 9 says: I am the door: by Me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. and John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

You have sanctification of the soul and the flesh mixed up. The flesh will never be perfect and will not be redeemed.

You need first to fully understand what sanctification is. There are a few bodies who are fully sanctified by the calling of God. Sanctification has nothing to do with sin. Justification or righteousness does.

Those who believe sanctification is the perfection of the fleah are following the flesh and will always have a guilt complex. It is great for religion. It give them (its leaders) control. You can be led of the Spirit if you want. First step is to pray, second step is to read the whole Bible yourself and third ask questions. Preachers don't like me talking about the Bible cause the people haven't heard the Bible from them. Most preachers haven't read the Bible cover to cover either and are only saying what they have been told without examination.

bugkiller

The flesh will never be perfect and will not be redeemed.

Never said it would dude. Again, u need to read . . .

Sanctification has nothing to do with sin.

WHAT!? Ur kidding right. Sanctification, making holy (hence the "tion") is a PROCESS . . . there is no sanctification of the soul . . . cause it can only be SANCTIFIED . . . NO PROCESS. SanctificaTION is the CURRENT everyday reality of the Christian of Romans 12 . . . cruficying the lusts of the flesh to prove the good will of God.

1 Thess 4:1-8
a Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
NASU

READ brother . . . the antithesis of sanctification here is what?
IMPURITY, SEXUAL LUSTS, PASSION . . . DUDE THAT IS SIN. What is more . . . sanctification is paralleled to OUR WALK . . . that is not the SOUL but the everyday HABIT of the Christian.

Justification or righteousness does.

Yes it has to do with sin ALSO. Justification is the forensic DECLARATION of righteousness and the removal of guilt for sin and imputation of Christ's work into us INTERNALLY. Our hearts are changed . . . this is born again. Sin no longer has a death grip on us and does not REIGN.

Sanctification has to do with WALK . . . HOW we LIVE NOW.

BOTH have sin in view.

Those who believe sanctification is the perfection of the fleah are following the flesh and will always have a guilt complex.

Well sense I dont believe this . . . I guess we are good!

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

What you're not a Calvinist? Ah, so sad to bad Armenianism is not fully correct either. Now whatcha gonna do? So once for all is not a done deal? What languague do you speak?
You simply can not get over sanctification being the perfection of the flesh, can you? So you just invalidate the Bible because of your unbelief.What is redeemed? You can not show anything but the soul being redeemed.


bugkiller

What you're not a Calvinist? Ah, so sad to bad Armenianism is not fully correct either.

Huh? Actually I am not a calvinist, tho I am VERY calvin-ISTIC.

You simply can not get over sanctification being the perfection of the flesh, can you

U really need to read dude.

 

[Frogster]

Amen. Romans 8:1 hallelujah . . . but notice that the JOY of 8:1 is understood in the context of 7 and the war that yet exists in the Christian who is in the process of sanctification . . . yet not fully sanctified.




Amen again. But notice the "now" is present and the "in order to" is future. Hence the following verse

Col 1:23
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
NASU

where Paul makes the "presentation" contingent upon "if u continue" . . . ergo the presentation is the future act of the presentation of the BRIDE to the BRIDEGROOM at the marriage supper of the Lamb.




No I dont see that in the passage that u cited. But I agree in atonement!



Amen again. THANK GOD . . . the context tho is not speaking of the practical process of sanctification . . . but the forensic declaration of free from sin. Hence:

Heb 10:4-5
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
NASU

the context being the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ OVER the OT system of bulls and goats . . . the point is the trump over sin . . . the bearing away of the sin from the individual. That is justification language and concept . . . far from Romans 7 which presumes this as having already happened.

So yes, we are HOLY, SAINTS, aggios . . . judicially . . . internally . . . forensically . .. BUT NOT TOTALLY IN PRACTICALITY . . . IOW not completely in practice. Hence Romans 7..

It clearly says we have been made holy.Does it not?

Hebrews 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Yer view of sanctification is nothing more than a works oriented religion dressed in different clothes than the SDA folks present. The nice featue about their version is annihilation. I am not promoting their church either.

bugkiller

Yer view of sanctification is nothing more than a works oriented religion dressed in different clothes than the SDA folks present.

well, since u cant even get what my view is, cause u keep atributing to me something I dont even believe, I will take your fluffy accusation with a grain of salt

 

[Frogster]

Never said it would dude. Again, u need to read . . .




WHAT!? Ur kidding right. Sanctification, making holy (hence the "tion") is a PROCESS . . . there is no sanctification of the soul . . . cause it can only be SANCTIFIED . . . NO PROCESS. SanctificaTION is the CURRENT everyday reality of the Christian of Romans 12 . . . cruficying the lusts of the flesh to prove the good will of God.

1 Thess 4:1-8
a Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
NASU

READ brother . . . the antithesis of sanctification here is what?
IMPURITY, SEXUAL LUSTS, PASSION . . . DUDE THAT IS SIN. What is more . . . sanctification is paralleled to OUR WALK . . . that is not the SOUL but the everyday HABIT of the Christian.



Yes it has to do with sin ALSO. Justification is the forensic DECLARATION of righteousness and the removal of guilt for sin and imputation of Christ's work into us INTERNALLY. Our hearts are changed . . . this is born again. Sin no longer has a death grip on us and does not REIGN.

Sanctification has to do with WALK . . . HOW we LIVE NOW.

BOTH have sin in view.



Well sense I dont believe this . . . I guess we are good!

lol! All your doing is pointing out Adam!

Isn't the whole idea that we were taken out of the age of Adam?

Gal 1:4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Are we raised up with Him or not?

Your just under law..,,hence..7!

 

[Frogster]

Hogwash! Bolonga has value or I would have said boloney. John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. and verse 9 says: I am the door: by Me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. and John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

You have sanctification of the soul and the flesh mixed up. The flesh will never be perfect and will not be redeemed.

You need first to fully understand what sanctification is. There are a few bodies who are fully sanctified by the calling of God. Sanctification has nothing to do with sin. Justification or righteousness does.

Those who believe sanctification is the perfection of the fleah are following the flesh and will always have a guilt complex. It is great for religion. It give them (its leaders) control. You can be led of the Spirit if you want. First step is to pray, second step is to read the whole Bible yourself and third ask questions. Preachers don't like me talking about the Bible cause the people haven't heard the Bible from them. Most preachers haven't read the Bible cover to cover either and are only saying what they have been told without examination.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

Never said it would dude. Again, u need to read . . .




WHAT!? Ur kidding right. Sanctification, making holy (hence the "tion") is a PROCESS . . . there is no sanctification of the soul . . . cause it can only be SANCTIFIED . . . NO PROCESS. SanctificaTION is the CURRENT everyday reality of the Christian of Romans 12 . . . cruficying the lusts of the flesh to prove the good will of God.

1 Thess 4:1-8
a Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
NASU

READ brother . . . the antithesis of sanctification here is what?
IMPURITY, SEXUAL LUSTS, PASSION . . . DUDE THAT IS SIN. What is more . . . sanctification is paralleled to OUR WALK . . . that is not the SOUL but the everyday HABIT of the Christian.



Yes it has to do with sin ALSO. Justification is the forensic DECLARATION of righteousness and the removal of guilt for sin and imputation of Christ's work into us INTERNALLY. Our hearts are changed . . . this is born again. Sin no longer has a death grip on us and does not REIGN.

Sanctification has to do with WALK . . . HOW we LIVE NOW.

BOTH have sin in view.



Well sense I dont believe this . . . I guess we are good!

As far as the every day habit of the Christian...

Dude! the power of sin is the law,the law arouses sinful passions.You want true sanctification,that is already there? Then you just walk in the spirit.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

It clearly says we have been made holy.Does it not?

Hebrews 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

It does indeed. But what is the context? Is the context the walk of the Christian life? Or is the context the work of redemption . . . the conqueroring of sin in the supreme sacrifice of Christ?

If the context is the daily walk of the Christian, then being made holy/sanctified is a once and done act and the Christian should never have another desire to sin (what is called in some theological circles as "entire sanctification" . . . real popular amongst Weslyan branches).

If, however, the context is the work of Christ on the cross in redemption from the curse of sin and its penalty (which is what the OT typifies in the whole OT sacrificial system, then being made holy/sanctified has to do with the application of the sacrifice to the individual in the forensic work of applying the reality of the Cross to the individual (primarily the abating of the wrath of God) . . . which is atonement.

Tho why I said I didnt see "eternal atonement" in u citation is because I guess I didnt understand quite what u meant by it . . . guess I should have asked!

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

lol! All your doing is pointing out Adam!

Isn't the whole idea that we were taken out of the age of Adam?

Gal 1:4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Are we raised up with Him or not?

Your just under law..,,hence..7!

Your just under law..,,hence..7

? please clarify, thnx

And I am not making the connections with the rest of ur point . . . please clarify how the "age of adam" concept that u are refering to has to do with Romans 7. Thnx (I think I get it, but I want to make sure I do before I respond)

 

[Frogster]

It does indeed. But what is the context? Is the context the walk of the Christian life? Or is the context the work of redemption . . . the conqueroring of sin in the supreme sacrifice of Christ?

If the context is the daily walk of the Christian, then being made holy/sanctified is a once and done act and the Christian should never have another desire to sin (what is called in some theological circles as "entire sanctification" . . . real popular amongst Weslyan branches).

If, however, the context is the work of Christ on the cross in redemption from the curse of sin and its penalty (which is what the OT typifies in the whole OT sacrificial system, then being made holy/sanctified has to do with the application of the sacrifice to the individual in the forensic work of applying the reality of the Cross to the individual (primarily the abating of the wrath of God) . . . which is atonement.

Tho why I said I didnt see "eternal atonement" in u citation is because I guess I didnt understand quite what u meant by it . . . guess I should have asked!

It says we have been made Holy.Yes?

There can be nothing else left .Yes?

Heb 10:18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.