Infused vs. Imputed

[MrPolo]

Is this accurate:

Infused Righteousness - Christ's work transforms the child of God, making him/her righteous in actuality.

Imputed Righteousness - Christ's work does not transform the child of God. God only saves anyone because He "sees Jesus" instead of a filthy sinner.

 

[Magentic]

I'd say the first definition was right but the second definition wrong'

'the transaction of sins from one to the other would be a better definition

Hebrews 10:14
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Hebrews 9:14
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

 

[1whirlwind]

Is this accurate:

Infused Righteousness - Christ's work transforms the child of God, making him/her righteous in actuality.

Imputed Righteousness - Christ's work does not transform the child of God. God only saves anyone because He "sees Jesus" instead of a filthy sinner.

I vote for "Infused Righteousness" and being transformed. We are a "new man," in His image but He loved us before we were changed...enough to send His Son.

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

​

 

[Stryder06]

Is this accurate:

Infused Righteousness - Christ's work transforms the child of God, making him/her righteous in actuality.

Imputed Righteousness - Christ's work does not transform the child of God. God only saves anyone because He "sees Jesus" instead of a filthy sinner.

I'd say that we use the last definition first when the sinner comes to Christ, and that the first definition occurs progressively throughout the sinners walk in newness of life.

 

[MrPolo]

'the transaction of sins from one to the other would be a better definition

You mean penal substitution? Which results in the same definition I gave, no?

 

[Magentic]

You mean penal substitution? Which results in the same definition I gave, no?

different jargon

 

[IreneAdler]

Is this accurate:

Infused Righteousness - Christ's work transforms the child of God, making him/her righteous in actuality.

Imputed Righteousness - Christ's work does not transform the child of God. God only saves anyone because He "sees Jesus" instead of a filthy sinner.

I think the second happens period.
I think the first happens with relationship between Christ and said sinner saved. But this is just MHO.

 

[Magentic]

You mean penal substitution? Which results in the same definition I gave, no?

Imputation is the theological term that has been applied to that particular transaction of events of God. But if you have a new term then I guess that puts light on a few of the misunderstandings in thread titles.


im·pute

   /ɪmˈpyut/ Show Spelled[im-pyoot] Show IPA
–verb (used with object),-put·ed, -put·ing. 1. to attribute or ascribe: The children imputed magical powers to the old woman.

2. to attribute or ascribe (something discreditable), as to a person.

3. Law. to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

4. Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.

5. Obsolete. to charge (a person) with fault.

 

[simonthezealot]

Is this accurate:

Infused Righteousness - Christ's work transforms the child of God, making him/her righteous in actuality.

Imputed Righteousness - Christ's work does not transform the child of God. God only saves anyone because He "sees Jesus" instead of a filthy sinner.

Sounds to me you're doing the catholic thing of confounding sanctification with justification there friend, if you're trying to understand imputed righteousness as the reformed view you need to view justification and sanctification more individually. And you all wonder why Rome appears to be a synergistic religion of works.

 

[Magentic]

It's the difference of faith and grace

justified by faith

sactified in grace

 

[Frogster]

Is this accurate:

Infused Righteousness - Christ's work transforms the child of God, making him/her righteous in actuality.

Imputed Righteousness - Christ's work does not transform the child of God. God only saves anyone because He "sees Jesus" instead of a filthy sinner.

Either way,it is the Spirit.

2 cor 3;3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.


2 Cor 3;18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, [6] are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Notice it was not by the letter of human achievment,the law.

Luther:Alien righteousness.

Catholic: Human righteousness.

 

[Frogster]

Alot of the sanctification verse are written present tense.I lean done,but we see it outworked in time and space.He sees us Holy and blameless.

 

[Catholic Dude]

Is this accurate:

Infused Righteousness - Christ's work transforms the child of God, making him/her righteous in actuality.

Imputed Righteousness - Christ's work does not transform the child of God. God only saves anyone because He "sees Jesus" instead of a filthy sinner.

Hi buddy from CatholicAnswersForums!

In my study on this topic of imputed righteousness, the Greek term “logizomai” is the English term for “reckon/impute/credit/etc,” (all terms are basically equivalently used) and when I look up that term in a popular lexicon here is what it is defined as:

—————-
QUOTE: “This word deals with reality. If I “logizomai” or reckon that my bank book has $25 in it, it has $25 in it. Otherwise I am deceiving myself. This word refers to facts not suppositions.”
Logizomai - King James Version Greek Lexicon
—————-

The lexicon states this term first and foremost refers to the actual status of something. So if Abraham’s faith is “logizomai as righteousness,” it must be an actually righteous act of faith, otherwise (as the Lexicon says) “I am deceiving myself.” This seems to rule out any notion of an alien righteousness, and instead points to a local/inherent righteousness.

The Lexicon gives other examples where “logizomai” appears, here are some examples:
——————-
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude [logizomai] that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted [logizomai] as a gift but as his due.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon [logizomai] ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:18 For I reckon [logizomai] that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
——————-

Notice in these examples that “logizomai” means to consider the actual truth of an object. In 3:28 Paul ‘reckons’ faith saves while the Law does not, this is a fact, the Law never saves. In 4:4 the worker’s wages are ‘reckoned’ as a debt because the boss is in debt to the worker, not giving a gift to him. In 6:11 the Christian is ‘reckoned’ dead to sin because he is in fact dead to sin. In 8:18 Paul ‘reckons’ the present sufferings as having no comparison to Heavenly glory, and that is true because nothing compares to Heavenly glory.

To use logizomai in the “alien status” way would mean in: (1) 3:28 faith doesn’t really save apart from works, but we are going to go ahead and say it does; (2) 4:4 the boss gives payment to the worker as a gift rather than obligation/debt; (3) 6:11 that we are not really dead to sin but are going to say we are; (4) 8:18 the present sufferings are comparable to Heaven’s glory.
This cannot be right.

So when the text plainly says “faith is logizomai as righteousness,” I must read that as ‘faith is reckoned as a truly righteous act’, and that is precisely how Paul explains that phrase in 4:18-22. That despite the doubts that could be raised in Abraham’s heart, his faith grew strong and convinced and “that is why his faith was credited as righteousness” (v4:22). This is also confirmed by noting the only other time “credited as righteousness” appears in Scripture, Psalm 106:30-31, where Phinehas’ righteous action was reckoned as such. This is confirmed even more when one compares another similar passage, Hebrews 11:4, where by faith Abel was commended as righteous.


And don't forget Penal Substitution:
psdebate (catholicdefense)

NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: Was Jesus damned in your place?

 

[Frogster]

Hi buddy from CatholicAnswersForums!

In my study on this topic of imputed righteousness, the Greek term “logizomai” is the English term for “reckon/impute/credit/etc,” (all terms are basically equivalently used) and when I look up that term in a popular lexicon here is what it is defined as:

—————-
QUOTE: “This word deals with reality. If I “logizomai” or reckon that my bank book has $25 in it, it has $25 in it. Otherwise I am deceiving myself. This word refers to facts not suppositions.”
Logizomai - King James Version Greek Lexicon
—————-

The lexicon states this term first and foremost refers to the actual status of something. So if Abraham’s faith is “logizomai as righteousness,” it must be an actually righteous act of faith, otherwise (as the Lexicon says) “I am deceiving myself.” This seems to rule out any notion of an alien righteousness, and instead points to a local/inherent righteousness.

The Lexicon gives other examples where “logizomai” appears, here are some examples:
——————-
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude [logizomai] that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted [logizomai] as a gift but as his due.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon [logizomai] ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:18 For I reckon [logizomai] that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
——————-

Notice in these examples that “logizomai” means to consider the actual truth of an object. In 3:28 Paul ‘reckons’ faith saves while the Law does not, this is a fact, the Law never saves. In 4:4 the worker’s wages are ‘reckoned’ as a debt because the boss is in debt to the worker, not giving a gift to him. In 6:11 the Christian is ‘reckoned’ dead to sin because he is in fact dead to sin. In 8:18 Paul ‘reckons’ the present sufferings as having no comparison to Heavenly glory, and that is true because nothing compares to Heavenly glory.

To use logizomai in the “alien status” way would mean in: (1) 3:28 faith doesn’t really save apart from works, but we are going to go ahead and say it does; (2) 4:4 the boss gives payment to the worker as a gift rather than obligation/debt; (3) 6:11 that we are not really dead to sin but are going to say we are; (4) 8:18 the present sufferings are comparable to Heaven’s glory.
This cannot be right.

So when the text plainly says “faith is logizomai as righteousness,” I must read that as ‘faith is reckoned as a truly righteous act’, and that is precisely how Paul explains that phrase in 4:18-22. That despite the doubts that could be raised in Abraham’s heart, his faith grew strong and convinced and “that is why his faith was credited as righteousness” (v4:22). This is also confirmed by noting the only other time “credited as righteousness” appears in Scripture, Psalm 106:30-31, where Phinehas’ righteous action was reckoned as such. This is confirmed even more when one compares another similar passage, Hebrews 11:4, where by faith Abel was commended as righteous.


And don't forget Penal Substitution:
psdebate (catholicdefense)

NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: Was Jesus damned in your place?

Hi.What I mean by alien,is that it was something man did not have,therefore it was placed in Him.Paul did not have a righteousness from the law.From his trying to fix Adam.Adam can't be counted as righteous.Christ in me is my righteousness,a once foreign (alien)being,now in me.

It has to be imputed,how can Adam and Christ mix?


1 Cor 1;30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

 

[Athanasias]

Of course if a person wants to say that they accept only imputation then they truly do not beleive that they are regenerated and become partakers of the divine nature in reality like scripture said. They just beleive that they have been acquitted like a court room decree or what I would call a legal fiction and they are seen as be righteous because Christ blankets over them with snow but they truly they are not new creations or really righteous actually because underneath the snow they are still dung as Luther would say. Sad isn't it! They really need to hold to infusion all the way! Its the only thing that makes biblical sense.

 

[christianmomof3]

you could also argue about diffused vs disputed
- but it would probably be disputed
or refused vs reputed
or confused vs comptuted ...

 

[Frogster]

Of course if a person wants to say that they accept only imputation then they truly do not beleive that they are regenerated and become partakers of the divine nature in reality like scripture said. They just beleive that they have been acquitted like a court room decree or what I would call a legal fiction and they are seen as be righteous because Christ blankets over them with snow but they truly they are not new creations or really righteous actually because underneath the snow they are still dung as Luther would say. Sad isn't it! They really need to hold to infusion all the way! Its the only thing that makes biblical sense.

Adam was dung.
If you believe we were in Adam ,counted ,imputed, reckoned,sinners,why not beleive we are righteous in Christ? Same thing,got one,got the other.That is why 5 was written,the wonderful comparrison.

18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Imputed baby!No credit,no boasting.

2 Cor 5;21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Athanasias]

Adam was dung.
If you believe we were in Adam ,counted ,imputed, reckoned,sinners,why not beleive we are righteous in Christ? Same thing,got one,got the other.That is why 5 was written,the wonderful comparrison.

18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Imputed baby!No credit,no boasting.

2 Cor 5;21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Let me get this straight. So you beleive in imputation( a mere legal fiction). So that means that you think that even though we are partakers of the divine nature of Christ and have been actually regenerated we still are dung in actuality?? Amazing! I guess Christ is dung then??

 

[MrPolo]

Sounds to me you're doing the catholic thing of confounding sanctification with justification there friend, if you're trying to understand imputed righteousness as the reformed view you need to view justification and sanctification more individually. And you all wonder why Rome appears to be a synergistic religion of works.

Well, explain it and heal me of my synergism.

 

[MrPolo]

Luther:Alien righteousness.

Catholic: Human righteousness.

Please let the Lutherans and Catholics define their own positions.