Informal Poll: The Reasons Why We Can't Find Churches

[Cloture]

With lack of a good local church being such a dominant topic these days, I'm curious on what people see as the root causes of this. If you presently have no local building/group/congregation that you consider "your church" and you've made at least three attempts in your local area to visit churches, what do you see as being the malfunction?

I have my own thoughts on the subject, but I'd love to hear unbiased comments first.

 

[RC1970]

Many churches have become secularized.
The full counsel of God has become an offense to them.
They prefer fellowship with people over the worshiping of God.
They emphasize tithing over the weightier matters.
They want to be entertained instead of being transformed.

 

[Cloture]

Many churches have become secularized.
The full counsel of God has become an offense to them.
They prefer fellowship with people over the worshiping of God.
They emphasize tithing over the weightier matters.
They want to be entertained instead of being transformed.

I guess this answer wins the poll!

 

[RC1970]

I guess this answer wins the poll!

Sorry, I probably scared people away.

 

[sparkle123]

One church was too watered down. Really annoying (hate to say it) male and female pastors that cooed and cracked jokes. Didn't feel appropriate to a worship service. Also there was a political rally aspect for gay rights, with a group coming up to the front with a rainbow flag, promoting pride week and the standard lgbtq issues. I am conflicted about this. I don't think children who have gender dysphoria should be given hormones to transition. I don't think gender is something divorced from biology, and I don't think that our sexual desires/behaviors are beyond reproach. I don't want to feel forced to pick a side on gay politics right now. This puts me at odds with the progressive left crowd, where most of my life I have felt comfortable.

At the same time, I went to another church with a beautiful service where there was a feeling of hostility toward any outsiders who would try and change the church. Like, the priest gave a stern, semi-rant about people trying to force the church to change with the times, and how it just wasn't going to happen. I understand the sentiment, but it was a little overwhelming and peppered with anger. It was the first time I showed up and the first time I'd been to church in 15 years and I already felt like I wasn't good enough to be there with my particular past, so yeah. Also I rode my bicycle to church and I was afraid that someone would see me unlocking it and write me off as being a liberal tree hugger or something... seemed like that sort of place.

The third church I have been going to a few times. Everything is largely good, but there seems to be little community or fellowship there. Also, although I am married, I am single at church and relatively young. My husband doesn't believe/go with me anymore and he is sterilized and refuses to have kids (a painful subject). Seems like everyone else is older and married with kids and suspicious of someone like me. I also don't know how to socialize with married couples when I don't have my husband with me.. it is awkward and I feel like the odd one out. I fit in better at the more liberal churches which are way more accepting of "outsiders" like me but I don't really like the political nature and lack of tradition. So I don't know. Guess I'm still figuring out where I belong and what I believe. I do consider that maybe I am over-thinking it and being too picky and sensitive. In short, I know it's partially an attitude problem and I'm praying about it. I do wonder if there are more people like me who are young, politically moderate, and feel alienated by a lot of Christian community but still drawn to Christ. Sigh...

 

[Dialogist]

With lack of a good local church being such a dominant topic these days, I'm curious on what people see as the root causes of this. If you presently have no local building/group/congregation that you consider "your church" and you've made at least three attempts in your local area to visit churches, what do you see as being the malfunction?

I have my own thoughts on the subject, but I'd love to hear unbiased comments first.

My opinion:

People are more concerned with finding a congregation that fits their particular beliefs than they are with examining their beliefs to determine if they believe in something that is actually true.

If people pursue truth, they will find the Church. If they are committed instead to following their own personal inclination, they probably won't.

 

[Cloture]

For my family, our problem comes down to lack of a place that teaches the Bible. A few years ago we lived in a different state where we had a wonderful Bible-based church. Since we moved to our current location 5 years ago, it's been a disaster.

At one church here, the pastor used his Sunday morning sermon to talk about tolerance. He listed a bunch of polarizing words (homosexual, welfare, atheism, etc) and asked us to examine if our guttural reaction was very tolerant. Not love. Not compassion. Tolerance. It was a political stump speech designed as Sunday worship. We never went back there.

Another place here used a collection of Beatles songs as the soundtrack for their Easter Sunday program. We watched a video of an actor picking up the Bible while "Let It Be" played in the background.

I tried really hard to like one pastor because he was a great speaker. This place was huge. They even had Joel Osteen's sister come one Sunday to speak. Then, out of nowhere, this pastor said in one sermon that God sympathized with divorced people because He divorced Israel so therefore He had something in common with them. My jaw dropped open at the sound of that. Everyone seated around me just smiled and nodded.

These are the specimens I've come across in my city. Presently, I attend a home-based Bible study group.

 

[Dialogist]

For my family, our problem comes down to lack of a place that teaches the Bible. A few years ago we lived in a different state where we had a wonderful Bible-based church. Since we moved to our current location 5 years ago, it's been a disaster.

At one church here, the pastor used his Sunday morning sermon to talk about tolerance. He listed a bunch of polarizing words (homosexual, welfare, atheism, etc) and asked us to examine if our guttural reaction was very tolerant. Not love. Not compassion. Tolerance. It was a political stump speech designed as Sunday worship. We never went back there.

Another place here used a collection of Beatles songs as the soundtrack for their Easter Sunday program. We watched a video of an actor picking up the Bible while "Let It Be" played in the background.

I tried really hard to like one pastor because he was a great speaker. This place was huge. They even had Joel Osteen's sister come one Sunday to speak. Then, out of nowhere, this pastor said in one sermon that God sympathized with divorced people because He divorced Israel so therefore He had something in common with them. My jaw dropped open at the sound of that. Everyone seated around me just smiled and nodded.

These are the specimens I've come across in my city. Presently, I attend a home-based Bible study group.

I would humbly ask you to consider attending an Orthodox Church. Given what you describe, it sounds like you might be a little stunned at first by the environment, but on the other hand it has preached the Gospel consistently for over 2,000 years. I live in North Texas and we have many Evangelicals that wander in, fed up with the scenes that you describe. Not a few of them join our parish (although many do not, because they want something more "comfortable").

 

[grandvizier1006]

One church was too watered down. Really annoying (hate to say it) male and female pastors that cooed and cracked jokes. Didn't feel appropriate to a worship service. Also there was a political rally aspect for gay rights, with a group coming up to the front with a rainbow flag, promoting pride week and the standard lgbtq issues. I am conflicted about this. I don't think children who have gender dysphoria should be given hormones to transition. I don't think gender is something divorced from biology, and I don't think that our sexual desires/behaviors are beyond reproach. I don't want to feel forced to pick a side on gay politics right now. This puts me at odds with the progressive left crowd, where most of my life I have felt comfortable.

At the same time, I went to another church with a beautiful service where there was a feeling of hostility toward any outsiders who would try and change the church. Like, the priest gave a stern, semi-rant about people trying to force the church to change with the times, and how it just wasn't going to happen. I understand the sentiment, but it was a little overwhelming and peppered with anger. It was the first time I showed up and the first time I'd been to church in 15 years and I already felt like I wasn't good enough to be there with my particular past, so yeah. Also I rode my bicycle to church and I was afraid that someone would see me unlocking it and write me off as being a liberal tree hugger or something... seemed like that sort of place.

The third church I have been going to a few times. Everything is largely good, but there seems to be little community or fellowship there. Also, although I am married, I am single at church and relatively young. My husband doesn't believe/go with me anymore and he is sterilized and refuses to have kids (a painful subject). Seems like everyone else is older and married with kids and suspicious of someone like me. I also don't know how to socialize with married couples when I don't have my husband with me.. it is awkward and I feel like the odd one out. I fit in better at the more liberal churches which are way more accepting of "outsiders" like me but I don't really like the political nature and lack of tradition. So I don't know. Guess I'm still figuring out where I belong and what I believe. I do consider that maybe I am over-thinking it and being too picky and sensitive. In short, I know it's partially an attitude problem and I'm praying about it. I do wonder if there are more people like me who are young, politically moderate, and feel alienated by a lot of Christian community but still drawn to Christ. Sigh...

Ugh, I'm so sorry for what you've had to see. A church that celebrates a week of sexual libertarianism just to be politically correct is absolutely repulsive to me. Any church that has the gall to forsake what it's supposed to be about and wave a rainbow flag just angers me if it was just some Episcopals being all nice about homosexuality, I'd give them some slack because that would just be what they were conditioned to think, but to openly support something that goes against what the majority of their fellow Christians want just seems like outright betrayal.

The second church sounds like a problem in the opposite direction. Anybody who rants like that shouldn't be a pastor.

The third one sounds like my church, except for the no community thing. Mine has WAY too much community, WAY too many people, and is just overly designed for one type of person. If you're a thirty-something with a stable marriage and kids, you'll love it. If you're an older person whose kids have grown, you'll love it. If you're a man or woman of God, you'll love it. But if you're me, a young man with Asperger's who can't simply get married at the drop of a hat and can't interact with crowds of strangers, then you'll feel like so,tent is missing. I don't know whether to just wait it out and then go to a new church once I can leave my parents or whether to try and make friends with these people already.

I hope you can find a place. And there's always CF

 

[grandvizier1006]

I would humbly ask you to consider attending an Orthodox Church. Given what you describe, it sounds like you might be a little stunned at first by the environment, but on the other hand it has preached the Gospel consistently for over 2,000 years. I live in North Texas and we have many Evangelicals that wander in, fed up with the scenes that you describe. Not a few of them join our parish (although many do not, because they want something more "comfortable").

I'm too conditioned with PCA churches to adjust to anything else. How long does it take for a Protestant to adjust, and what would I need to know?

 

[Cloture]

If you're open to switching your denominational bent, the best thing to do is just visit a few churches, check them out the same way you'd check out a PCA church, and see if you feel God's presence there. If you find yourself being spiritually fed, stick around.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Thanks. I have no idea of I'd ever change denominations, but part of me would like to see what other churches are like.

 

[sparkle123]

The third one sounds like my church, except for the no community thing. Mine has WAY too much community, WAY too many people, and is just overly designed for one type of person. If you're a thirty-something with a stable marriage and kids, you'll love it. If you're an older person whose kids have grown, you'll love it. If you're a man or woman of God, you'll love it. But if you're me, a young man with Asperger's who can't simply get married at the drop of a hat and can't interact with crowds of strangers, then you'll feel like so,tent is missing. I don't know whether to just wait it out and then go to a new church once I can leave my parents or whether to try and make friends with these people already.

I hope you can find a place. And there's always CF

I wish churches could remember the single worshippers, infertile and/or childless couples, along with the families. Seems a common complaint. I can also relate to your feelings of things being way too much. I don't have Asperger's, but I do struggle with social anxiety and depression and have been disabled from work/school by both conditions at times in my life. I work in the mental health field and see the struggle to be a part of society by people like me everyday... but yes, huge gatherings and celebrations are definitely NOT for me, but I do love small discussion and study groups. That's where I tend to gravitate.

Thanks for the well wishes. I'm still looking at what's out there. Hope you can find a comfortable relationship with your church or find a new one as well. I think it's interesting (at least) to go to different services. If you feel an inclination to do so, maybe you should try. And yes, I'm definitely grateful for CF!

 

[Dialogist]

I'm too conditioned with PCA churches to adjust to anything else. How long does it take for a Protestant to adjust, and what would I need to know?

You don't need to know anything to attend an Orthodox Church. One only has to have a longing for truth.

I don't think there is a clear answer to the question of how long it takes anyone, let alone a particular Protestant, to "adjust", as you say. The word "adjust" implies re-arranging something to bring it into conformity with something else (according to the Oxford English Dictionary). Within the Orthodox Church, we struggle to bring our lives into conformity with God's will, which, I am sorry to say, is a lifelong struggle against the world, the devil, and one's own sinful inclinations. In that sense, we are all continually "adjusting" ourselves daily.

To really learn what the Orthodox Church is about, one must attend its services and not just read and study about the Church. Generally a parish will hold a Vespers service on Wednesday and Saturday evening and Divine Liturgy on Sunday and at least one other day during the week. Some parishes may have more or less services. I would find a parish, email the priest that you are curious (so he knows to look for you), and then just show up. Let the Lord do whatever He intends.

If you think you might be interested, please start a private conversation with me and I can try to help you find a parish that might be suitable for you to visit.

[I am curious: What are "PCA churches"?]

 

[St_Worm2]

PCA = The Presbyterian Church in America It's a conservative Presbyterian denomination. What the PCA believes can be found here.

 

[St_Worm2]

Thanks. I have no idea of I'd ever change denominations, but part of me would like to see what other churches are like.

You might want to take this free online test to see which denomination best fits your beliefs. Go here to take it. Give it a chance to load because there is a priority "slider" that shows up that can help make the final determination. In the end you will see all of the denominations and how you, believing as you do now, would fit into them.

My top three, at 100%, were all "Reformed", PCA being at the top of the list, but oddly, I am part of the Evangelical Free Church of America at the moment (which allows both Arminian and Reformed soteriology to exist together .. which has been an interesting experience to be sure )

Yours and His,
David

 

[grandvizier1006]

You might want to take this free online test to see which denomination best fits your beliefs. Go here to take it. Give it a chance to load because there is a priority "slider" that shows up that can help make the final determination. In the end you will see all of the denominations and how you, believing as you do now, would fit into them.

My top three, at 100%, were all "Reformed", PCA being at the top of the list, but oddly, I am part of the Evangelical Free Church of America at the moment (which allows both Arminian and Reformed soteriology to exist together .. which has been an interesting experience to be sure )

Yours and His,
David

Interesting test, but I'm not sure if it's flawless. My number one was Mennonite, followed by Quakers, and...PCUSA. The first one makes me think of Amish, and the other two permit gay marriage, which is just something I can't "tolerate" in a congregation. If they avoided such polarizing subjects then maybe I could consider it, though.

 

[Cloture]

Mennonite doesn't have to be Amish. I've met many Mennonite believers in my life, and they are very nice people. They can drive cars, use phones, own businesses, etc. But they always are a bit old fashioned.

 

[St_Worm2]

Interesting test, but I'm not sure if it's flawless. My number one was Mennonite, followed by Quakers, and...PCUSA. The first one makes me think of Amish, and the other two permit gay marriage, which is just something I can't "tolerate" in a congregation. If they avoided such polarizing subjects then maybe I could consider it, though.

Flawless? Not a chance, but interesting nevertheless. Someone had it up on a thread a year or two ago and I think it hit the denomination that people thought it would in 85-90% of the cases (or at least that the denomination they thought they should be in was near the top anyway). Where did the PCA fall in your test, and what % did it show?

I was PCUSA and survived there only because my particular church was so conservative. That church has, in fact, left the PCUSA now for a more conservative one. This test still showed PCUSA as my #4, but it was in the 70 percentile range (unlike the top three which were all conservative Reformed denominations which were all ranked at or near 100%).

 

[Cloture]

I predicted my answer would be Assemblies of God, and that was the #1 choice. So yeah, it probably isn't very scientific, but it does seem to be generally correct.