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If you want to create a new doctrine and want it to be binding on the people, but it is not found in the Bible, what else are you going to lean on? "Tradition" is so vague and unverifiable that its near-perfect.Why do people care so much about traditions
Okay. Sure. We do not baptize people who are disinterested in Christ or unwilling to submit to the sacrament.Don't understand how you did t see this
What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 [a]Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
The problem that I have is that many, even some here, believe that this, in some way, ensures salvation for the infant.But that seems to be the urging given in posts written by people who are opposed to infant baptism.
Logically speaking, Christian people who think baptism doesn't accomplish anything and that it is just a gesture...ought to be saying to the others, "Go ahead and baptize your infant children if you insist; it doesn't do anything for them, you know!"
That doesnt answer the question.Why do people care so much about traditions
i know orthodox say they were told to hold to traditions however i see nopoint for what fruit do you produce by spending money on special garments and such what fruit do you produce when you dress contrary to(modest) normal
Do you think doing special rituals brings people to Christ or turns them off as they see people doing odd things not found in the Bible
Earlier, I said that no one thinks that way, but there were a few posters here whose choice of words, although ambiguous, could be made to seem to reflect that view.The problem that I have is that many, even some here, believe that this, in some way, ensures salvation for the infant.
Oooo spit and fireOdd things not in the Bible?
You mean like revivals, altar calls, and invitation hymns?
I'll bet the vestments our clergy wear during services, and especially my monastic cassock, look more like what Christ and the apostles wore than what people wear to YOUR church.
If you read all the posts, you will see that there are definitely those that will not come right out and say it.. but in a round the bush way, they are telling us that an infant must be saved if it is to go to heaven and that baptizing it or reading the bible to it will save it...I do not recall anyone saying that.
I do recall posts which, however, said that this absolutely is NOT the case.
I understand that.. However, these posters will not come out and state it.Earlier, I said that no one thinks that way, but there were a few posters here whose choice of words, although ambiguous, could be made to seem to reflect that view.
If so, they do not know the teaching of the churches that baptize infants. Talking as though they are representative of anything is misleading and mistaken The end.
I understand that.. However, these posters will not come out and state it.
However they skate around and post this and that... put it all together and they are saying that an baby that is not baptized, will go to hell, if it dies.
Well, I totally disagree.What I do feel it's logical to believe is that anyone who has no encounter with God's means of grace will not be saved by God through God's means of grace.
The Word of God made flesh His doctrine is not sufficient?If you want to create a new doctrine and want it to be binding on the people, but it is not found in the Bible, what else are you going to lean on? "Tradition" is so vague and unverifiable that its near-perfect.
I asked, "What happens to a baby that was not baptized and dies"They are NOT saying that. You keep appending that idea to your posts as though replying to a prior comment of someone else, but that's all there is to it.
Why would I want to "create a new doctrine" for one....And... a doctrine that is not found in the bible.. for two?If you want to create a new doctrine and want it to be binding on the people, but it is not found in the Bible, what else are you going to lean on? "Tradition" is so vague and unverifiable that its near-perfect.
So, how do you know if an infant is interested in Christ and willing to submit to the the sacrament?Okay. Sure. We do not baptize people who are disinterested in Christ or unwilling to submit to the sacrament.
Well, I totally disagree.
First, IMO, anyone that never reaches a state of mental awareness of their sins... will be held accountable for them.
Second, IMO, if you were to have grown up on some Island somewhere, never seen the bible, never heard of Jesus and never knew or heard anything about God... then.. this verse tells us that you would be held with no excuse by what you saw... and God would judge you on that.
Romans 1:19-20 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them.
20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.
First, I don't believe that what they said and what you have paraphrased here in an edited form amount to the same thing.I asked, "What happens to a baby that was not baptized and dies"
They said... if a baby is not saved... it will be condemned. (which I utterly disagree with)
I then asked, how is an infant saved... they said by being baptized and reading scripture to it.
So.... conclusion... if your baby is not baptized and you don't read scripture to , . it's not saved and would go to hell if it died........
Simple piecing the quotes together.
I agree Albion.First, I don't believe that what they said and what you have paraphrased here in an edited form amount to the same thing.
But second, we will have to have the actual quotes in order to know for sure.
Then, third, what some people who misunderstand the teaching or misunderstood you does not in any way show what the churches which believe in infant baptism--and the many members who really do know what the teaching is--believe about it.
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