Incense

[brinny]

Perfectly fair, I think.

Thank you sir

i also use a prayer shawl (Tallit) when i pray.

 

[Fireinfolding]

i believe he is saying that our fervent, whole-hearted prayers ARE incense to God.

Sure sis our hearts burn within us too, literal burnt offerings arent nessesary, one can burn all the incense they want to God looks upon the heart, He hears our prayers set before Him as the same.

Whats cooler too, is they they (in themselves) become the sweet savour of Christ. And by Christ we offer "spiritual sacrifices" acceptable before God. Everyone is salted with fire, we are his house of prayer, and He is the sweet savour.

 

[brinny]

‪YESHUA HAMASHIACH -THE MAN‬‏ - YouTube

 

[brinny]

Sure sis our hearts burn within us too, literal burnt offerings arent nessesary, one can burn all the incense they want to God looks upon the heart, He hears our prayers set before Him as the same.

Whats cooler too, is they they (in themselves) become the sweet savour of Christ. And by Christ we offer "spiritual sacrifices" acceptable before God. Everyone is salted with fire, we are his house of prayer, and He is the sweet savour.

Amen and amen.

 

[Kristos]

And Christ was Incarnate in THE FLESH, so worship in spirit and truth necessarily involves the body.

Incense is scriptural.

Incense is apostolic - read the apostolic canon.

Incense is heavenly.

Forgive the pun, but the smoke and mirrors argument presented here by cherry picking ECFs doesn't hold any water.

 

[brinny]

And Christ was Incarnate in THE FLESH, so worship in spirit and truth necessarily involves the body.

Incense is scriptural.

Incense is apostolic - read the apostolic canon.

Incense is heavenly.

Forgive the pun, but the smoke and mirrors argument presented here by cherry picking ECFs doesn't hold any water.

what are EFC's

 

[Rhamiel]

what are EFC's

early church fathers

 

[Fireinfolding]

Salt is scriptural as is incense

Is not my word a fire?


Lev 24:7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

And likewise...

1Cr 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

Likewise...

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire


Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

Even as prayer is set forth as incense (in house of prayer) we are

Likewise...

2Cr 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

Lev 2:13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.

Mat 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Mark 9:50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Col 4:6Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Mat 5:15 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost ***his savour***, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

2Cr 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the **savour of his** knowledge by us in **every place**.


Shows type in these things

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

what are EFC's

[links courtesy of Lamblinks]

http://www.christianforums.com/t6730673-140/#post42616669
Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

Did the ECFs really know/understand the Scriptures better? - Christian Forums
Did the ECFs really know/understand the Scriptures better?

 

[simonthezealot]

*humming pleasantly*

" While the Alleluia is being chanted, the deacon, taking the censer and incense, approaches the priest, and taking a blessing from him, censeth the Holy Table round about, and the whole altar, and the priest ( but, some cense during the epistle reading ) And the priest saith this prayer:
"
(snip)

Look I understand you call it his divine liturgy, but i've read much much of Chrysostom and I do not believe he wrote this, can you attribute the historical writing to which it may belong?

 

[simonthezealot]

Forgive the pun, but the smoke and mirrors argument presented here by cherry picking ECFs doesn't hold any water.

Bro...I am giving full context links, that's more than I can say for incense defenders... My context shows no leaks in the barrel.

 

[Philothei]

Here you can see Chrysostom shows prayer replacing incense, iow the acknowledgment that incense was a type...

The psalmist therefore asks for his prayer to become like that sacrifice defiled by no blemish of the offerer, like that pure and holy incense. Now, by his asking he also teaches us to offer prayers that are pure and fragrant. Hence he is also the one who touched on the stench of prayer in saying, "Because my iniquities rose up over my head, they weighed me down like a heavy load. My wounds were putrid and foul-smelling." As, then, the incense even of itself is fine and sweet-smelling, but gives particular evidence of its fragrance at the time when it is mixed with the fire, so too is prayer fine of itself but becomes finer and more sweet-smelling when offered with ardor and a glowing spirit, when the soul becomes a censer and lights a burning fire. I mean, the incense would not be added unless the brazier had previously been lit, or the coals set alight. Do likewise in the case of your own mind: first light it with enthusiasm, and then offer your prayer.
​

- John Chrysostom, Commentary on the Psalms, at Psalm 141:2

Who said here that incense replaces prayer??/

 

[simonthezealot]

Who said here that incense replaces prayer??/

It's reiteration to what he said in his homily 33
"You must worship 'in truth'; as former things were types, such as circumcision, and whole burnt offerings, and victims, and incense, they now no longer exist, but all is 'truth.'"

 

[Philothei]

It's reiteration to what he said in his homily 33
"You must worship 'in truth'; as former things were types, such as circumcision, and whole burnt offerings, and victims, and incense, they now no longer exist, but all is 'truth.'"

Where do you see St. John to deny the usage of incense...it says ALL is truth... he does not say insence is not supposed to be used

 

[Philothei]

Simon where is your link to that homily?

 

[Philothei]

Wherefore He saith, "they that worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and in truth." For because both Samaritans and Jews were careless about the soul, but took great pains about the body, cleansing it in divers ways, it is not, He saith, by purity of body, but by that which is incorporeal in us, namely the mind, that the incorporeal One is served. Sacrifice then not sheep and calves, but dedicate thyself to the Lord; make thyself a holocaust, this is to offer a living sacrifice. Ye must worship "in truth" ; as former things were types, such as circumcision, and whole burnt offerings, and victims, and incense, they now no longer exist, but all is "truth." For a man must now circumcise not his flesh, but his evil thoughts, and crucify himself, and remove and slay his unreasonable desires." The woman was made dizzy by His discourse, and fainted in at the sublimity of what He said, and, in her trouble, hear what she saith:
Ver. 25, 26. "I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when He is come, He will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I am that speak unto thee."

now this is context and St. C is explaining the talk of Christ to the woman @ the well...Well...well... There is a difference between what he is refering to...He is bringing in an illustration/ paradigm of HOW we are to worship (mindset) not the "actual" way...ST C was a "liturgist" with the whole meaning of the word...he put together the services of the Church I would not imagine that he would have forbit to use insence...or we would know about it..lol...

JOHN: Homily 33 by St. John Chrysostom


I do not see where he says insence is prohibited... He is one of the three hierarchs who were VERY peticular about liturgy... My husband is a liturgiologist specializing in the anaphorae and "epiclesis" etc. I have NEVER heard such a thing actually alll the East used insence abudantly.

 

[simonthezealot]

Where do you see St. John to deny the usage of incense...it says ALL is truth... he does not say insence is not supposed to be used

It says they NO LONGER exist, can't really spell out much clearer than that.

 

[simonthezealot]

Simon where is your link to that homily?

Post 88 run your cursor over John's words.

Or HERE

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Perhaps we should ask Simon to explain our liturgy to us.

Forgive me...

 

[Philothei]

It says they NO LONGER exist, can't really spell out much clearer than that.

So what does it mean that they "do not exist" ? They do exist and practiced. St. J either lied or we indeed mistraslating him.

He is not speaking literally. for sure; or he would forbit incense But you can go ahead and believe that he still did not use insence in his services I know he did!!


Meanwhile from Psalms we have this prayer:


‪Let My Prayer Rise‬‏ - YouTube