Incense

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Who said anything about "MANDATED?" Not I.

Just saying that it is present in both the OT and NT, and churches use it. Period.

Just desired to understand your position.
Thank you.


I agree with you. It was practice. It still is. Doesn't mean it should be or must be, of course.


Blessings!




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[Dorothea]

Today we do not offer literal incense to God but instead offer prayers, that is what Malachi speaks of and this understanding, of course, is not unique to me.

That's your church's choice and understanding. To say that as fact is ridiculous. It is not. Many liturgical churches use and have since their inception. So what? You don't want to use it, don't?

Do we really need to argue over this? Good grief.

Scripture is clear in making the association between Old Testament incense and prayer. In the New Testament we no longer use incense. I realize that there are churches today who use incense, though it was not the practice of the ancient churches.

Incense is in Revelation - in heaven. It's not ages gone by but present.

Again, do what you want.

 

[simonthezealot]

I clearly explained to you that he is wrong on this issue. That's why I thought you had been reading his stuff.

Forgive me...

Yes I know, but Philothei seemed to think Mister Taft "the liturgical mind of the time" agreed with her so I simply pointed out to her the error.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Yes I know, but Philothei seemed to think Mister Taft "the liturgical mind of the time" agreed with her so I simply pointed out to her the error.

Gotcha... he has lots of things correct... but not everything.

He failed to look at the earlier liturgies.

Forgive me...

 

[simonthezealot]

That's your church's choice and understanding. To say that as fact is ridiculous. It is not. Many liturgical churches use and have since their inception. So what? You don't want to use it, don't?

I don't I am simply correcting your ancient historical misunderstandings.
The earliest church did NOT use it, and nowhere outside of Revelation do you see it in the NT as any sort of a practice, time and again you see anf's showing that prayer is the true to the OT type (incense).

NOW is the time we are to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth...

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

*unsubscribing*

Forgive me...

That was perhaps the shorting unsubscribing in the history of CF.




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[Dorothea]

I don't I am simply correcting your ancient historical misunderstandings.
The earliest church did NOT use it, and nowhere outside of Revelation do you see it in the NT as any sort of a practice, time and again you see anf's showing that prayer is the true to the OT type (incense).

NOW is the time we are to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth...

I see, so one can't worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth with the presence of incense. So nice to know that I and others are told that we don't worship in Spirit and Truth. Thanks for your judgment call.

I'm done with this thread.

 

[simonthezealot]

I see, so one can't worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth with the presence of incense. So nice to know that I and others are told that we don't worship in Spirit and Truth. Thanks for your judgment call.

I'm done with this thread.

You have jumped to illogical conclusions as to my intentions...
I simply am reiterating that incense is a type not the truth, look I understand it is used as a symbol to represent things, for example when censing people it acknowledges that we are a temple and so forth.

 

[Fireinfolding]

You have jumped to illogical conclusions as to my intentions...
I simply am reiterating that incense is a type not the truth, look I understand it is used as a symbol to represent things, for example when censing people it acknowledges that we are a temple and so forth.

This I can understand, who rejoice in "the truth" rather then "the images of" the true

 

[Dorothea]

You have jumped to illogical conclusions as to my intentions...
I simply am reiterating that incense is a type not the truth, look I understand it is used as a symbol to represent things, for example when censing people it acknowledges that we are a temple and so forth.

Sure, then why do you have a problem with it. Why can't you just accept the fact that some Christians use incense, along with other things involved with the senses? We use them because we worship with our whole body and it helps to focus us more on God. I understand it's a distraction for others (probably because they haven't used it before or what have you), but it isn't for us. It's a great aide in worshiping God.

I'm a visual and hands on learner, so, anything done with the body and through seeing and smelling and touching helps me greatly.

I realize others don't need that. They just use their mind, but the bible says we are to worship God in body and spirit, so what's the harm?

Why can't we all accept we have different practices, but that we all love the Lord in our own ways. Why does this forum always have to find things that divide us and cause fighting? The way the world is going around us, we should be helping each other and coming together in love through our mutual love in Christ.

 

[simonthezealot]

Sure, then why do you have a problem with it.

Did I say this?

 

[Dorothea]

Did I say this?

It seemed like you did or implied it. Anyhow, I don't want to argue. I'm in no mood to. If you don't have a problem with it, fantastic. We can carry on and have a pleasant rest of the day. God bless, Simon.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

A prayer from the liturgy of St. James...

...'receive even from our hands this incense for a savour of sweetness and the remission of our sins and those of all thy people'.

A prayer from the liturgy of St. Mark...

"We offer incense before the face of Thy holy glory..."

Other examples could be cited from all the Eastern rites.

Forgive me...

 

[bbbbbbb]

A prayer from the liturgy of St. James...

...'receive even from our hands this incense for a savour of sweetness and the remission of our sins and those of all thy people'.

A prayer from the liturgy of St. Mark...

"We offer incense before the face of Thy holy glory..."

Other examples could be cited from all the Eastern rites.

Forgive me...

It seems to me that your first quote states or, at least, implies that incense is the means of remission of sins. Am I correct in my understanding?

 

[simonthezealot]

What's long been a concern for me is when people say we need this atmosphere, we need the smells, we need everything. You know from my understanding of the Bible, they are no longer trusting in the simple gospel. If they were trusting in the simple gospel they would simply stand up and preach it.

 

[simonthezealot]

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies” (Matthew 15:19).


We cannot too often insist upon it that religion is a matter of the heart. It is the besetting sin of man to forget that God is a spirit, and that worship rendered to God must be of a spiritual kind. Idolatry is the full carrying out of this mischievous propensity. Instead of adoring the Great Invisible, and giving him the love of the heart, man sets up a block of wood or stone, and, burning incense and performing genuflections before it, he cries, “This is my god.” Where this idolatry does not assume the very grossest form it takes another, which is equally as objectionable in the sight of God.

Man pleads that he cannot worship God with his heart unless his memory is assisted by some outward object, and then he smuggles in his idol, and gratifies his depraved nature with will worship and outward formalism. God requires soul worship, and men give him body worship; he asks for the heart, and they present him with their lips; he demands their thoughts and their minds, and they give him banners, and vestments, and candles. Where man is hunted by very shame from outward superstitions, he betakes himself to anything sooner than yield his heart’s love to his Maker, submit his intellect to the great Creator’s teaching, and render all his faculties to the service of the Most High.

--C.H. Spurgeon

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It seems to me that your first quote states or, at least, implies that incense is the means of remission of sins. Am I correct in my understanding?

Yep... that's the way it was used. Easily misunderstood without the context of 'what' was being censed.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Clearly, incense in it's liturgical use is 'from the east'.

During the Christian prosecutions, many Christians were told to bring the incense and burn it at the Roman pagan altars and they would not be accused of being a Christian.

It's still just ornamental though. My Priest would not burn it if someone complained that it was burning their eyes or something. I've seen him do it.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It seems to me that your first quote states or, at least, implies that incense is the means of remission of sins. Am I correct in my understanding?

I take note that St. John Chrysostoms anaphora does not say this... even though St. James' liturgy was his model. Some may call that change... I would call it refinement.

Forgive me...

 

[Incariol]

I'm confused by the direction this thread is going. Incense is not required nor is it wrong.

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