In the beginning ...

[Aman777]

[QUOTE="Hoghead1, post: 69162578, member: 381793"

P.S. Another problem with the Genesis account is that it does not make it clear how God creates. Some will say it definitely means creatio ex nihilo. But God created Adam out of dust, not out of nothing. God created Eve out of Adam's rib, not out of nothing. God creates the adult out of the child, not our of nothing. The opening of the Genesis account is ambiguous here. Maybe god creates out of nothing, but maybe out of some preexistence chaos.
[/QUOTE]

False. God is an invisible Spirit Who SPOKE the worlds into being. God spoke and Jesus, the only God ever formed, fashioned the physical matter. Heb 11:3 ALSO, Jesus (Lord God) made Adam of the dust of the ground, Gen 1:7 on the 3rd Day. God (Trinity) did NOT create Adam from the dust but created he and Eve Spiritually at the same time on the present 6th Day. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2 Adam could NOT have been created with Eve until the 6th Day because Eve was NOT made until the 6th Day. Gen 2:22

Those who cannot support their views Scripturally should not post them. Amen?

 

[Riberra]

Sorry, Riberra, but in light of the case I already made, I don't see how any of this could possibly even begin to work.

God created animals and humans and everything who are alive on the Earth with the capacity to reproduce, this is how it worked.

This solve the chicken and egg problem.The first chicken(s) were created male and female with the capacity to reproduce.
Wild animals and humans (mankind) were created on the 6th day fully grown male and female with the capacity to reproduce.

Genesis 2 tell us about the creation of Adam and Eve and farm animals and the creation of the the Garden of Eden after the 6 Th day of creation and after the 7th day of rest -isolated- from the other humans created on the 6 Th Day..The test whom Adam and Eve have gone through in the Garden of Eden and failed have enormous consequence... since then Satan have retaken (as he was in the First earth age ) his position of Prince of this world with disastrous consequence ...

Genesis 2King James Version (KJV)

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and THERE WAS NOT a man TO TILL the GROUND.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Hoghead1]

Sorry, Riberra, that isn't the issue here. The issue I initially presented was that Genesis does not offer a coherent account of creation.

 

[Riberra]

Sorry, Riberra, that isn't the issue here. The issue I initially presented was that Genesis does not offer a coherent account of creation.

Ok, i see .The only reference about your concern that i am aware of is from post #56 in page 3 where you are analysing different theories.

I will address that one ....

There is the two-creation theory. Accordingly, Gen. 1 and 2 refer to two different creations. Gen. 1 describes the total overall creation of the universe. Gen. 2 is purely concerned with what happened in the garden of Eden, with events that happened after the total overall creation. Looks promising. However, what is snot shown or addressed in the fundamentalist box is the fact fact this theory generates treffic problems in accounting for all the personnel involved
in so doing g, has led to ridiculous results. A good example is the Lilith theory that was widespread among Medieval Christians and Jews. The problem was this: If we are fusing these accounts together, then there is a woman created in Gen. 1, and at the same time as Adam, who is not named, and who obviously exists in addition to Eve. Who is she? Her name is Lilith and she is Adam's first wife...

Lilith was in reality Cain's wife when Cain was cast out of the Garden of Eden. She came from the humans created on the 6th Day.Cain meet Lilith his wife in the Land of Nod located EAST of Eden Genesis 4..Some say that Lilith was Satan in a feminin form ,possibly that Lilith body was literally "posseded" by Satan communly known as Satanic possession.
Cain's descendants are know as the Kenites.It is possible that at least one of the wifes of the sons of Noah was a Kenite descendant of Cain.You can find reference to the Kenites (descendants) of Cain after the flood mentioned in the Bible in Numbers among other places.

Genesis 4

 

[Hoghead1]

Well, that certainly is an option, as I pointed out. However, I really don't know how many will buy it, as it has humans descended from other than Adam and Eve. The other issue is this" Who sit other man mentioned in Gen. 1. Lilith is the woman, OK. But who, then, is the other man, the guy there before Adam?

 

[Riberra]

Well, that certainly is an option, as I pointed out. However, I really don't know how many will buy it, as it has humans descended from other than Adam and Eve. The other issue is this" Who sit other man mentioned in Gen. 1. Lilith is the woman, OK. But who, then, is the other man, the guy there before Adam?

God created mankind (Humans) as a whole -male and female He created THEM.-on the 6th day Genesis 1:26-28 after that He have created the other members of the Earth's biosphere ( fishs..birds... insects...wild animals , ect )...

Adam and Eve were created in the Garden of Eden after the creation of the others Humans of the 6th day and after the 7 Th day of rest for a special purpose. Genesis 2.

From all the humans created on the Earth only Noah a direct descendant of Adam and Eve and his sons and their wives Only 8 Humans were saved from the flood.

Genesis 6

 

[Hoghead1]

OK, so why does the Bible speak of all humankind as descended from Adam?

 

[Riberra]

OK, so why does the Bible speak of all humankind as descended from Adam?

Eve was described in the Bible as the mother of all -living- (Saved) something like that see Genesis 3:20...which is directly connected to God's plan of Salvation which started in the Garden of Eden see Genesis 3:15. Jesus is the -seed- that will bruise the head of the serpent (Satan)...Jesus' heels were bruises when Jesus was crucified.


One thing for sure the actual humankind that we see today descend directly from the eight who were on the Ark.

 

[Hoghead1]

OK, Riberra, you have one group of humans descending from Adam and Lilith, and then a second group from Adam and Eve? What exactly is the relationship of the first group to the second? Are you assuming Ada is also the male mentioned in Gen. 1? How do you relate your interpretation of Genesis to mainstream and historical Christianity which definitely does not recognize any persons coming from other than Adam and Eve?

 

[Riberra]

OK, Riberra, you have one group of humans descending from Adam and Lilith, and then a second group from Adam and Eve?

That is not what i wrote.
-God created mankind on the 6th day Genesis 1 -Male and female He created THEM.-
-God created Adam and Eve after the 6th day of creation and after the 7Th day of rest.... and isolated them from the humans created on the 6th day for a special purpose Genesis 2

What exactly is the relationship of the first group to the second?

Only when Cain was cast out of the Garden of Eden there was mention of an interaction betwen him and humans outside the Garden of Eden.... Cain meet his wife (Lilith) outside the Garden of Eden and founded the first city see Genesis 4.

Are you assuming Adam is also the male mentioned in Gen. 1?

Adam is not the male mentioned in Genesis 1.Note that the word Adam in the Hebrew language can apply -to mankind in general- that was created on the 6Th day mentionned in Genesis 1 and can also be used to define The Man Adam in the Garden of Eden that was formed by God from the dust after the 7Th day of rest mentionned in Genesis 2 depending of the article or particle used before the Hebrew word for Adam.

How do you relate your interpretation of Genesis to mainstream and historical Christianity which definitely does not recognize any persons coming from other than Adam and Eve?

The Bible tell us that Cain was cast out of Eden as soon as he killed Abel....Based on the text Cain was a young man
probably betwen 16 and 20 years old when he killed his twin brother Abel ...that live us with 3 humans on the whole Earth based on mainstream and historical Christianity ....
Question:
If there was nobody outside the Garden of Eden how do you explain Cain's fear of being slain by humans outside of the Garden of Eden when God cast him out ?From where came Cain's wife?For whom Cain builded a city?

Genesis 4

13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

 

[Hoghead1]

Interesting. So, what was the special tasks for the first group of humans, those created aside Adam and Eve? What is there relationship of this first group to ourselves today? What is the name of the male in Gen. 1 1? If not Adam, what? You have his wife's name as Lilith? Can you give him a name?

 

[Riberra]

Interesting. So, what was the special tasks for the first group of humans,those created aside Adam and Eve?

They were nomads people living of hunting and fishing or eating fruits whatever their stomach was able to digest.They have done what God said to THEM mentioned in
Genesis 1:26-28
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he THEM.

28 And God blessed THEM, and God said unto THEM, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What is there relationship of this first group to ourselves today?

As you surely know it only 8 humans were on the Ark and survided the Flood.

What is the name of the male in Gen. 1 1? If not Adam, what?

Many male and female humans were created (Mankind) by God at the same time at that moment on the 6Th Day-Male and female He created THEM.-
As well as the animal kingdom who was created by God before Mankind.

You have his wife's name as Lilith?
Can you give him a name?

Lilith was CAIN's wife.Remember when CAIN was cast out of the Garden of Eden CAIN meet his wife in the land of Nod....mentioned in Genesis 4.

 

[Hoghead1]

OK, gottcha. So whom are we descended from? Adam and Eve or the other humans mentioned in Gen. 1?

 

[Riberra]

OK, gottcha. So whom are we descended from? Adam and Eve or the other humans mentioned in Gen. 1?

We descend from the 8 humans that were in the Ark.We know that Noah was a direct descendant of Adam and Eve.

 

[Hoghead1]

OK.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It is also pretty obvious that Genesis 1:1 is a complete sentence, not dependant on the verses that follow. "In beginning god created the heavens and the earth."

beginning God created * the heaven and the earth. There are seven words in the first sentence in the Bible. Every word would take a whole book to understand. There is a word that is not translated and it is interesting to look at the other passages in Genesis to see how that word is used in context.

God created H853
God saw H853 the light God divided the light from the darkness.
Adam knew H853 Eve his wife

God created and God saw and God knew.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H0853&t=KJV

You could spend your whole life to study JUST the first 7 words in the Hebrew Bible and when you were finished you would ONLY be getting started to understand the message that God has for us here. Even three generations could spend their whole life and we still would only be getting started. Because this is the beginning that we are talking about.

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end.
Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If you can find church fathers who taught that pre-Adamic hominids lived on the earth earlier than 6,000 years ago, I'd like to hear about them.

We still have the remains of those "pre-Adamic hominids " God left us evidence of them and He must have His reason why He gives us that evidence to study.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Eve was described in the Bible as the mother of all -living- (Saved) something like that see Genesis 3:20...which is directly connected to God's plan of Salvation which started in the Garden of Eden see Genesis 3:15. Jesus is the -seed- that will bruise the head of the serpent (Satan)...Jesus' heels were bruises when Jesus was crucified.

Gen 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; H2416 and man became a living H2416 soul."

Clearly it is the breath of life that we are looking at, Eve is the mother of all (first fruit) with the breath of life. Yet man is still a mammal and has a kinship with the other mammals on the earth and in the sea.

 

[ChetSinger]

We still have the remains of those "pre-Adamic hominids " God left us evidence of them and He must have His reason why He gives us that evidence to study.

I was specifically asking for church fathers who taught that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Ok, i see .The only reference about your concern that i am aware of is from post #56 in page 3 where you are analysing different theories.

I will address that one ....



Lilith was in reality Cain's wife when Cain was cast out of the Garden of Eden. She came from the humans created on the 6th Day.Cain meet Lilith his wife in the Land of Nod located EAST of Eden Genesis 4..Some say that Lilith was Satan in a feminin form ,possibly that Lilith body was literally "posseded" by Satan communly known as Satanic possession.
Cain's descendants are know as the Kenites.It is possible that at least one of the wifes of the sons of Noah was a Kenite descendant of Cain.You can find reference to the Kenites (descendants) of Cain after the flood mentioned in the Bible in Numbers among other places.

Genesis 4

"17Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son." Cain built a city? Why did Cain build a city? Perhaps we have the descendants of Seth and the descendants of Cain. As the flesh and the spirit war. Just as Abraham had a child with Sarah and also he had a child with Hagar. The flesh and the child of promise. "Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise." (Gal 4:28) We are adopted into the family of God as if we are the child of promise when we are born again.