In Guns We Trust

[Sketcher]

Because we have been specifically commanded to "turn the other cheek" and to "overcome evil with good."
When Christ stood before Pilate and was asked if He was a King Christ said, "If My kingdom was of this world then would my disciples fight to free Me, but My kingdom is not of this world." And, we are told another place that, "The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but spiritual."

Why lock the door then?

 

[SteveIndy]

Why lock the door then?

Because the world is evil. It is the same reason I would test the Lord by laying down in a highway or reading the label on a medicine bottle.

 

[brinny]

Sketcher said: ↑
Why lock the door then?

Because the world is evil. It is the same reason I would test the Lord by laying down in a highway or reading the label on a medicine bottle.

Because the world is evil.

This is the very same reason why police officers carry guns. It is also the very same reason that if a police officer is not able to be present in a life-death situation, the targeted victim needs to have a gun and be trained how to use it.

It's, as you said, because the world is evil.

 

[SteveIndy]

He was crucified because He was/is the Savior, the holy Lamb of God.

We are not.

We are admonished to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves. We are also admonished to live at peace, as much as is possible.

We are also granted wisdom, discernment, and clarity to assess with wisdom any given situation, and to maintain peace. And sometimes the maintaining of peace is in removing a weapon from someone who means harm, and to, if necessary, shoot them in order to stop bloodshed or harm.

The bottom line is, is doing any of the above, a "sin"?

It is a sin if done in disobedience to the Lord's commands. "Living at peace as much as possible" is not a license to kill, it is simply permission to flee if necessary. If you purchase a gun with the intention to kill someone then in your heart you have already committed murder, there is no difference with God, the intention is there. He has commanded us to make no provision to fulfill the lust of the flesh. And, how do you stop bloodshed by causing bloodshed? In heaven, there will be no killing and we are to live as kingdom citizens here and now, "On earth as it is in Heaven."

 

[brinny]

It is a sin if done in disobedience to the Lord's commands. "Living at peace as much as possible" is not a license to kill, it is simply permission to flee if necessary. If you purchase a gun with the intention to kill someone then in your heart you have already committed murder, there is no difference with God, the intention is there. He has commanded us to make no provision to fulfill the lust of the flesh. And, how do you stop bloodshed by causing bloodshed? In heaven, there will be no killing and we are to live as kingdom citizens here and now, "On earth as it is in Heaven."

I agree that someone with evil intent and in their heart "hunts" for a victim, it is a sin.

Is it a sin to protect ones family from someone who has targeted them to break in unawares to do them harm and possibly torture and kill the family from the baby, to the children, the pregnant wife and the father and husband?

Is it not written that anyone who allows harm to one of the innocents is worse than an infidel and should have a mill stone tied around him and thrown in the deepest sea?

Is it also not written that God abhors the shedding of innocent blood and those who plan in secret to shed the innocent blood of others by trapping or ambushing them?

Isn't this included in the 7 things that God hates?

 

[SteveIndy]

This is the very same reason why police officers carry guns. It is also the very same reason that if a police officer is not able to be present in a life-death situation, the targeted victim needs to have a gun and be trained how to use it.

It's, as you said, because the world is evil.

Police officers are of this world and God has ordained governments for the purpose of keeping order. Christians are not of this world and are citizens of another country and have no authority in a foreign country. Christians are expected to obey the laws of their Mother country which is Heaven. We are soldiers of the cross who have been dropped behind enemy line to complete a mission and the weapons of our warfare are all spiritual and not carnal. Our enemy is the Devil and his hordes, not men who we have been given the mission of showing them the way out of this world. If you kill anyone then you deprive that soul from any chance to be free. Even Christ allowed Himself to be murdered and showed us by example how we are to forgive, even those who are killing us. Please do not listen to the traditional arguments that we can save lives by taking lives, it is a lie from hell and will only earn you grief in the end.

 

[section9+1]

Christians get convictions to do and live certain ways and it's none of my business what they choose to bind themselves to. If having no guns and peeing your pants when you feel threatened suits you, I have nothing to say against that. But you cannot preach your convictions to other Christians and complain when they disagree. Your authority does not extend that far.

 

[brinny]

Police officers are of this world and God has ordained governments for the purpose of keeping order. Christians are not of this world and are citizens of another country and have no authority in a foreign country. Christians are expected to obey the laws of their Mother country which is Heaven. We are soldiers of the cross who have been dropped behind enemy line to complete a mission and the weapons of our warfare are all spiritual and not carnal. Our enemy is the Devil and his hordes, not men who we have been given the mission of showing them the way out of this world. If you kill anyone then you deprive that soul from any chance to be free. Even Christ allowed Himself to be murdered and showed us by example how we are to forgive, even those who are killing us. Please do not listen to the traditional arguments that we can save lives by taking lives, it is a lie from hell and will only earn you grief in the end.

We are admonished to be good citizens of this country. We are also admonished to care for our families and households and to protect and provide for those dependent on us.

To not do so is an egregious sin, and it is written that someone who does not establish safety and provide for their family is worse than an infidel and should have a mill stone tied around him and thrown into the sea.

 

[Sketcher]

It is a sin if done in disobedience to the Lord's commands. "Living at peace as much as possible" is not a license to kill, it is simply permission to flee if necessary. If you purchase a gun with the intention to kill someone then in your heart you have already committed murder, there is no difference with God, the intention is there. He has commanded us to make no provision to fulfill the lust of the flesh. And, how do you stop bloodshed by causing bloodshed? In heaven, there will be no killing and we are to live as kingdom citizens here and now, "On earth as it is in Heaven."

Say you have a family, and a few thugs armed with knives break in. What do you do?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

exodus 22:1-5

 

[SteveIndy]

I agree that someone with evil intent and in their heart "hunts" for a victim, it is a sin.

Is it a sin to protect ones family from someone who has targeted them to break in unawares to do them harm and possibly torture and kill the family from the baby, to the children, the pregnant wife and the father and husband?

Is it not written that anyone who allows harm to one of the innocents is worse than an infidel and should have a mill stone tied around him and thrown in the deepest sea?

Is it also not written that God abhors the shedding of innocent blood and those who plan in secret to shed the innocent blood of others by trapping or ambushing them?

Isn't this included in the 7 things that God hates?

Jesus said very plainly that, "If you love anyone or anything more than you love Me then you are not worthy of Me." Obedience is the answer to that little quiz. In Matthew 5:39 Jesus says very plainly, "Do not resist the evil person." He has also told us to turn the other cheek and to overcome evil with good and has shown us by His very life what all of that looks like. He was led to the cross like a lamb not resisting and from that very cross He forgave those who were at that very moment killing Him and commanded us to do likewise. For the life of me why can't people see this, it is so simple. The answer is that the prince of this world has blinded the eyes of those who are on their way to perdition.

Yes, the innocent must be protected but we cannot do that by becoming guilty. He has allowed us to sacrifice ourselves on their behalf but He has not given us permission to become judge, jury, and executioner. "There is only One Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to both save and destroy. But you - who are you to judge your brother." James 4:12. Please reconsider your position you are on very dangerous ground. The history of the Church is filled with the stories of those who became martyrs following in the footsteps of Jesus.

 

[SteveIndy]

Say you have a family, and a few thugs armed with knives break in. What do you do?

Say a terrorist breaks into your house and threatens to kill your family unless you detonate a dirty bomb in a highly populated area and kill 10,000 people would you do it for the sake of say five people? Only a very selfish person could do it. Christ has given us no options, the answer is always to obey Christ, even when it means the cost of our families. Obedience will be the distinguishing difference between those who are finally saved and those who are not. "Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do the things I have commanded you?" "Be gone from Me I never knew you."

 

[SteveIndy]

We are admonished to be good citizens of this country. We are also admonished to care for our families and households and to protect and provide for those dependent on us.

To not do so is an egregious sin, and it is written that someone who does not establish safety and provide for their family is worse than an infidel and should have a mill stone tied around him and thrown into the sea.

Well, have it your way. I just pray that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes.

 

[brinny]

Jesus said very plainly that, "If you love anyone or anything more than you love Me then you are not worthy of Me." Obedience is the answer to that little quiz. In Matthew 5:39 Jesus says very plainly, "Do not resist the evil person." He has also told us to turn the other cheek and to overcome evil with good and has shown us by His very life what all of that looks like. He was led to the cross like a lamb not resisting and from that very cross He forgave those who were at that very moment killing Him and commanded us to do likewise. For the life of me why can't people see this, it is so simple. The answer is that the prince of this world has blinded the eyes of those who are on their way to perdition.

Yes, the innocent must be protected but we cannot do that by becoming guilty. He has allowed us to sacrifice ourselves on their behalf but He has not given us permission to become judge, jury, and executioner. "There is only One Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to both save and destroy. But you - who are you to judge your brother." James 4:12. Please reconsider your position you are on very dangerous ground. The history of the Church is filled with the stories of those who became martyrs following in the footsteps of Jesus.

I was speaking of self defense, and protecting, in particular, one's family.

To bow down to evil and allow innocent blood to be shed is abhorrent in God's eyes.

It's an egregious sin to allow it if one has the means to protect those dependent on you for protection from evil.

it could even be a form of a "sacrifice" to evil, to allow it. The "sacrifice" being the innocents who were brutally murdered and sacrificed to the god of this world, while someone who had the means to stop it, didn't.

It is written that we are to speak up for and defend those who are helpless.

To not do so is hard-hearted, cold-blooded and evil.

It's the most grievous of sins.

 

[TCassidy]

it is simply permission to flee if necessary.

So you would run away from the rapist and murderer who was raping and murdering your wife and daughter?

The bible says that if you refuse to protect your family you are worse than an unbeliever.

1Tim 5:8 But if anyone doesn’t provide for his own, and especially his own household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever.

If you purchase a gun with the intention to kill someone

Please. Nobody in this thread has suggested any such thing.

Police officers are of this world and God has ordained governments for the purpose of keeping order. Christians are not of this world and are citizens of another country and have no authority in a foreign country.

So, if, as you say, police officers are of this world and Christians are not of this world, are you saying that police officers are not Christians?

[In the interests of full disclosure this picture was taken over 30 years ago.]

 

[brinny]

Sketcher said: ↑
Say you have a family, and a few thugs armed with knives break in. What do you do?

Say a terrorist breaks into your house and threatens to kill your family unless you detonate a dirty bomb in a highly populated area and kill 10,000 people would you do it for the sake of say five people? Only a very selfish person could do it. Christ has given us no options, the answer is always to obey Christ, even when it means the cost of our families. Obedience will be the distinguishing difference between those who are finally saved and those who are not. "Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do the things I have commanded you?" "Be gone from Me I never knew you."

You just by-passed Sketcher's question.

You didn't answer it.

 

[TCassidy]

You didn't answer it.

He hasn't answered an of mine either. I can only assume he has no answers.

 

[brinny]

He hasn't answered an of mine either. I can only assume he has no answers.

It seems that way.

 

[SteveIndy]

Christians get convictions to do and live certain ways and it's none of my business what they choose to bind themselves to. If having no guns and peeing your pants when you feel threatened suits you, I have nothing to say against that. But you cannot preach your convictions to other Christians and complain when they disagree. Your authority does not extend that far.

I would dare say that the cowards are mostly on the side of those who have to have weapons for defense against evil. As far as having authority to do what I am doing it from God Himself as it was for all the prophets, early Christians, and the Apostles. Have you read that we cities on a hill that cannot be hidden or that we are not to put our lamp under a basket? Please tell me where you get your authority from if not from Christ?

 

[TCassidy]

I would dare say that the cowards are mostly on the side of those who have to have weapons for defense against evil. As far as having authority to do what I am doing it from God Himself as it was for all the prophets, early Christians, and the Apostles. Have you read that we cities on a hill that cannot be hidden or that we are not to put our lamp under a basket? Please tell me where you get your authority from if not from Christ?

I get my authority from Christ, the Author of the Bible. I already posted the command to arm ourselves, which you rejected. And Romans 13:1 makes it clear my authority comes from God Himself.

But those who refuse to accept God's command to provide for his household are considered worse than unbelievers.

1Tim 5:8 But if anyone doesn’t provide for his own, and especially his own household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever.