In all seriousness

[woobadooba]

So the Greek symbols are different from the English yet the English can carry the exact same meaning as the Greek?

Yes, the meaning/concept is the same. However, the symbols used to convey that meaning are different.

Nevertheless, the Greek tends to be more expressive than the English, and that is why most scholars prefer to study the Greek text over that of the English.

It's the paraphrased Bibles that you have to watch out for. For, that's where ones own interpretation of the text is superimposed on the original.

 

[Skeptical]

Actually, the word “rapture” comes from the Latin word rapturo, which is a translation of the Greek verb "caught up" that’s found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

You should know that it is best not to limit yourself to the usage of only one language to prove a point, especially since the NT was written in Greek.

And as I had mentioned already, the term rapture doesn't appear in the English, but the concept is present in the idiomatic expression "caught up"

Actually the Bible books of the bible were orginally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. The Latin Vulgate translation came much later and is prone to the same dilution of the original text connotations that any translation would entail. "Rapturo" may not carry the meaning that the original text was attempting to elucidate.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

There is no Latin word "rapturo".

 

[woobadooba]

There is no Latin word "rapturo".

Ok, now you are just being silly!

 

[sinner/SAVED]

You are probably thinking of the Latin word "rapui" which does have a meaning similar to "sieze" but it is also the root of our modern word "rape".

 

[sinner/SAVED]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 from the Latin Vulgate:

1Th 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

 

[sinner/SAVED]

My argument stands:

The word "rapture" was not in any way connected to the "taking up" of Christians until the 1970's.

No magic hat. No rabbit. Just facts.

If you would care to enlighten us with facts that are contrary to my statement, please feel free to do so. So far you have offered no facts whatsoever, only childish insults and posturing.

 

[woobadooba]

My argument stands:

The word "rapture" was not in any way connected to the "taking up" of Christians until the 1970's.

No magic hat. No rabbit. Just facts.

If you would care to enlighten us with facts that are contrary to my statement, please feel free to do so.

I agreed with you in stating that the word rapture isn't in the English translation. But the concept of "rapture" is in both the English and the Greek idiomatic expression which denotes the idea of being "caught up" or "taken away".



There is a significant difference in the meaning of the words by and through.


We are justified by grace, not through it!

The correct way to put it would be, we are justified by grace through faith.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

I thought we were discussing the word "rapture". I don't recall any mention of grace.

Although this thread could use some...

 

[woobadooba]

From Answers.com

rapture
This article is about the Christian raising up of the faithful. For other meanings, see Rapture (disambiguation). The Rapture is a term most commonly used to describe an event in certain systems of Christian eschatology (study of the end of the world) whereby all true Christians are taken from Earth by God into Heaven before other events associated with the end of the world take place. The main proponent of this concept and interpretation was John Nelson Darby.

The word "rapture" comes from the Latin verb "rapiemur" which means "carried off". It was used in the Latin Vulgate (about 405 A.D.) translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Supporters of this doctrine are most commonly found among fundamentalist and conservative Protestants, especially in the United States. Belief in the rapture is particularly associated with the school of Biblical interpretation called dispensationalism.

The term "rapture" is also used by some groups to describe the concept of religious ecstacy, or a religious out of body experience. This article discusses the use of rapture as an eschatological concept.


405 A.D., not the 70's!


There! I proved your point to be wrong!

 

[woobadooba]

I thought we were discussing the word "rapture". I don't recall any mention of grace.

Although this thread could use some...

Hey, I agree that this thread could use some grace!

I apologize for being so sarcastic. Sarcasim serves no purpose in discussion except to inflame others.

It's wrong, and I am sorry.

 

[Skeptical]

From Answers.com

rapture
This article is about the Christian raising up of the faithful. For other meanings, see Rapture (disambiguation). The Rapture is a term most commonly used to describe an event in certain systems of Christian eschatology (study of the end of the world) whereby all true Christians are taken from Earth by God into Heaven before other events associated with the end of the world take place. The main proponent of this concept and interpretation was John Nelson Darby.

The word "rapture" comes from the Latin verb "rapiemur" which means "carried off". It was used in the Latin Vulgate (about 405 A.D.) translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Supporters of this doctrine are most commonly found among fundamentalist and conservative Protestants, especially in the United States. Belief in the rapture is particularly associated with the school of Biblical interpretation called dispensationalism.

The term "rapture" is also used by some groups to describe the concept of religious ecstacy, or a religious out of body experience. This article discusses the use of rapture as an eschatological concept.


405 A.D., not the 70's!


There! I proved your point to be wrong!

But rapiemur does not equal rapturo which supposedly serves as the root for rapture. In fact, if I remember my high school Latin, the declination of the Latin verb rapio, rapere, rapui, raptus contains no form bearing a resemblance to "rapturo."

 

[woobadooba]

But rapiemur does not equal rapturo which supposedly serves as the root for rapture. In fact, if I remember my high school Latin, the declination of the Latin verb rapio, rapere, rapui, raptus contains no form bearing a resemblance to "rapturo."

As I had already mentioned, with different verbal tenses there are different stems.

It all depends on what tense is in useage at the time to know which stem to apply to incur a correct interpretation.

It could also be that your teacher left some important details out, as do many of them, especially in public schools.

 

[Skeptical]

Hey, I agree that this thread could use some grace!

I apologize for being so sarcastic. Sarcasim serves no purpose in discussion except to inflame others.

It's wrong, and I am sorry.

To bad, I was getting a chuckle out of it.

 

[Skeptical]

As I had already mentioned, with different verbal tenses there are different stems.

It all depends on what tense is in useage at the time to know which stem to apply to incur a correct interpretation.

It could also be that your teacher left some important details out, as do many of them, especially in public schools.

I don't know. Dr. Issing was a retired Latin scholar and a priest who had spent a decade working at the Vatican.

 

[woobadooba]

I don't know. Dr. Issing was a retired Latin scholar and a priest who had spent a decade working at the Vatican.

Well, I don't know either, since I am no linguist scholar. But what I do know is that the majority of Biblical scholars who have made reference to rapture so as it relates to the Latin Vulgate state that it is either "rapio" or "rapturo"

In any case, the meaning is the same in the English as it is in the Greek. Therefore, nothing has been lost in translation. And that is what is most important here.

 

[JJB]

1. If, in the distant future, humanity were to colonize the moon and perhaps Mars, and the rapture were to happen, would those living on distant planets and moons be raptured as well?

2. Would a human clone be raptured?

3. How about a cybernetic organism composed only of a human nervous system coupled to advanced life support systems?

I would answer all those questions "I don't know".

The whole discussion of "rapture" deals with eschatology. Eschatology among Christians varies greatly.

My question to skeptical is: Are you among those who will be raptured?

 

[Skeptical]

I would answer all those questions "I don't know".

The whole discussion of "rapture" deals with eschatology. Eschatology among Christians varies greatly.

My question to skeptical is: Are you among those who will be raptured?

I am agnostic. I don't perceive that there is enough evidence to support or refute the whole notion of a rapture. Chances are that I would not be "caught up in the air" if a rapture were to occur due to my ambivalent stance. Since you will most probably be raptured (as the great majority of christians also believe), may I have your car after it happens?

 

[Davis]

huh?

 

[Davis]

Nope just dont have a big vocab. I like to use simple words when describing something.