impeachment process for Bush and Cheney started

staveoffzombies · Jul 20, 2007

The ever increasing body count in Iraq, with basically no hope of ever "winning" over there and the increased chipping away at human rights in America (Patriot Act anyone?) are my two main areas of contention with this current Administration. I don't understand how anyone can honestly say Bush's actions in regards to these two areas are acceptable.

jad123 · Jul 20, 2007

staveoffzombies said:
The ever increasing body count in Iraq, with basically no hope of ever "winning" over there and the increased chipping away at human rights in America (Patriot Act anyone?) are my two main areas of contention with this current Administration. I don't understand how anyone can honestly say Bush's actions in regards to these two areas are acceptable.

When is any body count in war acceptable? When is enough enough? 5 people, 5000 people, 100000 people? Who makes that decision? Unfortunately deaths will occur in every war. The last estimate I saw put the current US count at 3630. It sucks but compared to other wars it is minimal WWI - 116,000 (DoD) Vietnam (58,000). When we first went in the majority of the country supported the attack. Would 3630 be an acceptable number if you agreed with the war?

As for winning the war I guess that depends on what you classify as winning. Packing up and leaving is just dumb idea all around. Setting a date is just as bad. The insurrgents have no reason to give up, back off, slow down or anything else right now because they know all they have to do is keep plugging away until Bush is out and it is free for all in Iraq there after. We should NOT be worried about what the globe thinks of us we should be worried about what the terrorist think. If we cut and run why would anyone in the future be worried the the US was going to enforce UN sanctions or anything else. Our goal should be to continue to work, stabalize and put pressure on the Iraqi government to take full control of their defenses. That is a war we can win. Terrorism is not going away tomorrow. Our society has become weak, rich, and use getting things done fast. We have been in Iraq since 2003. Saddam Hussein is a distant memory. WWI 1914 -1918, WWII 1939 - 1945, Revolutionary War 1775 -1783. 4 years or so since we went to Iraq. Short timeframe for the work that needs to be done but in our fast food world I do understand the frustration.

Before I get into the Patriot Act (there are positives and negatives) it would be interesting to know how exactly it has effected you in personal everyday life. For me, It has had no negative effect on my privacy or how I live my life.

staveoffzombies · Jul 20, 2007

Does the Patriot Act need to have directly effected me for me to know it's a bad thing? The fact that they have done questionable things in the name of security demonstrates to me that they could easily do more...and evenutally reach the point where it effects mer personally.

jad123 · Jul 20, 2007

staveoffzombies said:
Does the Patriot Act need to have directly effected me for me to know it's a bad thing? The fact that they have done questionable things in the name of security demonstrates to me that they could easily do more...and evenutally reach the point where it effects mer personally.

I find it ironic that Bush is the bad guy with the Patriot Act. Shortly after 9/11 Congress overwelmingly passed the Patriot Act. And as usual as have backpedaled on their support for election purposes. Now what does the act really do. Two sections I have heard complaints about are 213 and 215. Section 213 authorizes delayed notification of search warrants. Critics say the normal process of immediate notification. What is ironic is courts have allowed the delay for years and the Supreme even upheld delayed notification over 20 years ago. Where is the benefit. Terrorist don't know we care coming. Then there is section 215. Before the Act, law enforcement could obtain banking records, airline receipts, library search info. etc. etc. only needingg to obtain a grand jury subpoena for such actions. Section 215 merely extends this to terrorist crimes and adds a further protection for the citizen a judge's order must authorize such evidence gathering. As for surveillance. Heck, they would be quite bored with my life

Now as I said I do not support Bush in everything, I will be happy to discuss immigration and why I believe he has dropped the ball with that. But I guess that is a different post.

BlessEwe · Jul 20, 2007

The Iraq war.
People have been coming out with many facts.
Although just like watergate, this is very hard to nail. They have gotten very smart with the cover ups since the 70's.
I do pray for the future of our children, and the lives of so many who have died or will die from this unnecessary war.

I suggest you watch this video
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/iraq/thestory.html

Bin Laden is getting stronger power cells together now. yet....War on Terrorism: A half dozen or more al Qaeda lieutenants will be captured -- how many number three's can there be? -- with the core of the old organization remaining shielded in western Pakistan.

KarrieTex · Jul 21, 2007

jad123 said:
I find it ironic that Bush is the bad guy with the Patriot Act. Shortly after 9/11 Congress overwelmingly passed the Patriot Act. And as usual as have backpedaled on their support for election purposes. Now what does the act really do. Two sections I have heard complaints about are 213 and 215. Section 213 authorizes delayed notification of search warrants. Critics say the normal process of immediate notification. What is ironic is courts have allowed the delay for years and the Supreme even upheld delayed notification over 20 years ago. Where is the benefit. Terrorist don't know we care coming. Then there is section 215. Before the Act, law enforcement could obtain banking records, airline receipts, library search info. etc. etc. only needingg to obtain a grand jury subpoena for such actions. Section 215 merely extends this to terrorist crimes and adds a further protection for the citizen a judge's order must authorize such evidence gathering. As for surveillance. Heck, they would be quite bored with my life

Now as I said I do not support Bush in everything, I will be happy to discuss immigration and why I believe he has dropped the ball with that. But I guess that is a different post.

Don't get me started on the illegal's.

When he was governor he was tough on it. I still think he had to swing a deal for him to do this.

Rudolph Hucker · Jul 21, 2007

I really do think some of you are unnecessarily harsh on Bush.

Two things he has strived for to the benefit of all: world trade and immigration.

cookiebaker · Jul 22, 2007

neilius73 said:
Not a well known fact in the USA, but if GW Bush, D Rumsfeld, Cheney ever enter Europe they would be instantly arrested for war crimes.

yawwwwnnnn, this doesnt say much....I mean Europe is not exactly a bastion of human rights upholders themselves...

KarrieTex · Jul 22, 2007

neilius73 said:
Not a well known fact in the USA, but if GW Bush, D Rumsfeld, Cheney ever enter Europe they would be instantly arrested for war crimes.

UHMMM BS...

Wasn't Bush just over in the EU?? And yet he is home.

cookiebaker · Jul 22, 2007

having trouble posting, edited for mistake!

cookiebaker · Jul 22, 2007

edited for mistake

cookiebaker · Jul 22, 2007

staveoffzombies said:
Creating a constant state of fear, cutting back on personal freedoms, forcing his religious beliefs into the general populace, and getting us involved in a quagmire of a conflict are the marks of a good president?! I tried to defend the guy as long as I could...but it got to the point where I would be completely delusional to still think he's been a good thing for this country.

yes, the man is allowed to have his own relgion and follow it...thats freedom of religion...you are allowed to have yours, me mine, etc. You are not forced to be a Christian, or any other religion for that matter...in fact our country ahs more religious freedom than any other. Let the man follow the religion of his own choosing.

the vigilance of his administration has worked for your benefit by thwarting many terror attacks in the making, some right on the front burner....if he had been more slack and an attack occured, I know you'd be blaming him for not being more vigilant...

Elife3 · Jul 22, 2007

Why should he be impeached? There's only a few months left in his term, then he'll be gone.

Rudolph Hucker · Jul 22, 2007

... and if he were impeached, think who would follow ....

MezzaMorta · Jul 22, 2007

Nazaroo said:
God bless America!

Finally, someone has the backbone to get this going:

New Mexico Starts Process of Impeachment <-- Click here.

God bless, though this should have been done a few years ago (even though his first term was won illegally).

I think bush should be removed from office, arrested and put on trial for his massive crimes against the American people and humanity in general.

Saddam was tried and executed for killing 149 Iraqis, I wonder how many Iraqis bushed has killed so far, last estimate was that the war had cost over 650,000 Iraqi lives. I would fully support him being extradited to Iraq and tried by the Iraqi people for his crimes in that nations.

Rudolph Hucker · Jul 22, 2007

Some strong language, but this is an interesting clip.

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2525

davidoffinland · Jul 23, 2007

From Finland.

The above video has strong language, but I suppose one is use to it by now. I always been a-political, but reading my latest book, "Anatomy of Deceit" by Marcy Wheeler.

An interesting quote from the book: Under Cheney´s supervision, Libby oversaw the production of the first Defense Planning Guidance---a statement of the country´s strategic goals--produced after the fall of the Soviet Union. The paper advocated projecting such overwhelming military power abroad that any potential rivals would not dare to compete. ....Arguably, the paper advocated the kind of policy we see behind the Iraq War and subsequent occupation: In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, our overall objective is to remain the predominant owtside power in the region and preserve U.S. and Western access to the region´s oil. (p.102)

This paper was drawn up in the late 80´s or early 90´s....and now we know what happened to Libby when Bush pardoned the part of the sentence and that of jail time.

In Him, david.

cookiebaker · Jul 24, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
God bless, though this should have been done a few years ago (even though his first term was won illegally).

I think bush should be removed from office, arrested and put on trial for his massive crimes against the American people and humanity in general.

Saddam was tried and executed for killing 149 Iraqis, I wonder how many Iraqis bushed has killed so far, last estimate was that the war had cost over 650,000 Iraqi lives. I would fully support him being extradited to Iraq and tried by the Iraqi people for his crimes in that nations.

Mezza, can't you just say you wished Gore had won...and you didnt like that Bush won?.... adults should be able to 'lose' with some dignity and grace..

BlessEwe · Jul 25, 2007

RudolphHucker said:
Some strong language, but this is an interesting clip.

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2525

Very powerful and scary.

MezzaMorta · Jul 25, 2007

cookiebaker said:
Mezza, can't you just say you wished Gore had won...and you didnt like that Bush won?.... adults should be able to 'lose' with some dignity and grace..

Gore did win, more Americans voted for him. Political maneuvering and a court decision gave Bush the presidency (look up how Hitler got power with out popular support).

impeachment process for Bush and Cheney started

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