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I didn't have the patience nor the capacity to read all 11 pages, however from what I did read the majority is saying that tithes is not necessary, but it is the doctrine of greedy, money-hungry pastors, but it is clear in the scripture that tithing brings blessings and that it belongs to the Lord.
As to the OP's original question about tithing... Tithing is 10% of your income, so if you make $750 on your paycheck, you tithe $75, meaning you live on the remainder $675. How and why is that so difficult for people to grasp and accept. 10% is not alot, God is allowing you to live on 90%. Be happy that He's not saying to live on the 10%, than we'd really hear complaints
But this is a constant... 10% of your income. Simple enough. However "Offering" is where God deals with many people, but it is a completely different constant than tithes.
There are times where God does say don't pay your rent or your carnote or your light bill, but seed into someone else's life or into this ministry and I will bless you 100 fold. Those are the times He is trying to build up our faith, to strengthen it. But you notice He does not ask everyone, only those He knows can do it, even if they question or complain at first, He knows they will actually do it. Some people He doesn't even form a word, He knows where they are.
So with all that said I wouldn't say that offering is a constant, but tithes are. Tithes are 10% of income, offering/seed is whatever God places on that individuals heart. But to preach against tithes is dangerous, sort of like the OSAS doctrine. I always say it's better to be safe than sorry.
I hope this cleared things up for you and others.
there are times when God directs a person not to pay their bills?.........I'm not sure what bible you read out of, but pay the workers for services rendered comes to mind, If you owe money its your biblical duty to pay it back FIRST! before you start handing your money out to organizations that won't have their lights turned out or their car impounded if you don't SEED THEIR POCKETS.........what a load of...........
Its much like Jesus taught the pharisees who instead of giving money to help their parents they gave it as a gift to God, thus making the commandment of honoring your father and mother of no effect.Another thing: I looked at your faith: and it says "Word-Of-Faith" now if this is what I think it is, then you of all people should understand what I am saying. This is faith, the OP's question is a faith-based question. How can you have faith for one thing, but not the other.
At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.
"I also see some blatent abuses of biblical teaching, to get those preaching lives of luxury while those giving can barely make ends meet, this would also go against Pauls teaching of balance, to take from one group of Christians and give to another, making one rich and the other destitute is not what we see in the bible what is supposed to happen"
I agree with that. But then how do you factor in humble churches that do exercise sound and strong faith and outreach to their community?
Its much like Jesus taught the pharisees who instead of giving money to help their parents they gave it as a gift to God, thus making the commandment of honoring your father and mother of no effect.
your commanded to pay what you owe, whether it is workers in the field or services you contracted people to give you, whether electricity or the promise of payment for a car. The Holy Spirit would not direct a person to withhold money from debt you are in covenant to pay. you may think your operating in the realm of faith, but contradicting one truth to back up another is not sound doctrine
I'm a strong believer in the faith doctrine, everything works on the principle of faith, why not turn the tables on your stepping out in faith, and pay the bill and trust God to bring you the money for seed........why would you believe that a strong faith wouldn't work in this fashion also.
While I'm WOF I also see some blatent abuses of biblical teaching, to get those preaching lives of luxury while those giving can barely make ends meet, this would also go against Pauls teaching of balance, to take from one group of Christians and give to another, making one rich and the other destitute is not what we see in the bible what is supposed to happen
When Drayzon says God sometimes tells us to not pay our bills, but to sow a particular seed with the money. It is not to neglect our responsibilities in paying our bills, but to trust the Lord for our needs. For example if I have an $60 water bill due next week and have exactly $60 left in my pocket, but then God impresses upon my heart to give that $60 to needy family or a specific ministry for whatever reason. He is not asking me to neglect my water bill, but to trust Him to provide the money for the bill by obeying Him. It's about faith and obedience-obeying the Holy Spirit and trusting God to provide our needs. It can be difficult, (I might protest "but Lord, don't you know that's my bill money"), but God knows that and wants us to obey and trust Him.
"So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:31-34
......but when i hear someone say we should test god....it gives me a sick feeling in my stomach....it doesnt seem right to test him......
george baily said:So people that take this leading of faith and take money meant for bills and "seed" it to the needy, and don't recoup this funds from God what is your explaination to them (little faith?) seems to me they stepped out in faith by giving, not recouping is either not hearing the Holy Spirit correctly or God didn't want them to pay their bills
not so much a testimony of tithing as one of giving and trusting, you equate it to be the "TITHE" yet you were simply giving unto the Lord. the tithe is in your mind, its not in the bibleYou failed to hold tight to a key thing she said. She said "so if God impresses upon my heart to give the $60.00 to a needy family..."
God quickening your spirit to move on this is different then going off of just faith. In all things wisdom has to be in the decision. If God tells you to do it, then there is a specific return. The return is not always monetary. It can be anything in which God knows you are in need of physically, mentally, emotionally, financially or spiritually.
Obedience is better than sacrifice and we don't know what one may have to sacrifice either spiritually or naturally due to disobedience. When God is asking something very specific of you, and you don't move... then what can one expect?
A faith offering is different then an express direction from God. I believe a faith offering is honored as well. But we have to be careful because if God didn't tell you to withhold from that and do this, then what we may expect to happen, may not be what we get. God is still going to bless it and the person. You just don't know how or when.
For example, if a seasoned child of God runs off and gets married to someone that God didn't ordain for them to marry and they begin to experience problems, they can't fault God for giving them strength, a sound mind and joy while they go through some long suffering. He is blessing them with those characteristics while He is yet working things out in the marriage. Marriage is still of God so we know He can honor it but He didn't direct that person to get married at that time or to that person.
So if by faith someone gives money instead of paying a bill and God didn't tell them to do it, they can't always expect a monetary return (not saying it won't happen). God may very well save a loved one that they have been praying for by them finally accepting Jesus Christ or bless them with a promotion at work or simply increase their faith.
I'm going to put a personal testimony out here. We were indebted to the IRS for earned overseas income. They ended up levying (garnishing) my husbands check in an attempt to have the debt paid off. When this occurred, I personally thought there is no way we are going to be able to sustain ourselves with the absence of his income so suddenly.
I completely stopped tithing and giving all together to be able to meet our basic needs. Times were tough while were fighting the IRS to lift the levy. I prayed, fasted, prayed and fasted until it seemed like that was all I could do.
I knew God was telling me that He never told me to stop giving or tithing but I did anyways because I felt that I couldn't give & tithe and pay ALL bills plus buy food and gas 2 vehicles. I was worried and anxious which was not of God.
We were in a waiting game with the IRS while they worked things out with our CPA and lawyer. It was a very long 5 months and each time I knew the Lord was urging me to tithe or give, I was disobedient.
Finally, while at a meeting, a Word was preached about tithing and giving. I felt convicted from the inside out. It seemed like every word was directed at me. Words that I had prayed, conversations I had with God were all coming at me. I settled it that day that the next pay period, no matter what bill did not get paid, I was going to tithe.
Next pay period, I tithed immediately. I needed to quickly do it before I reasoned myself out of it by what I was facing in the natural.
That was on a Wed (pay periods are Friday but our checks hit Wed morning) and on Friday, my CPA called me and said how quick can I sign my 2010 return documents because the IRS was faxing over a document to the payroll dept. that day to lift the levy but they needed my signed return!
I can't even put into words what type of praise, worship and just over all thanksgiving I was overcome with. I knew it was God because I literally had been disobedient when I knew what He was telling me all the while. I slowed up my own deliverance by not trusting God to be who He is and focusing on the natural and what "it looked like". I lost sight that God was yet in control of this and I needed to have the faith to know that He can and will work it out in our favor.
I believe in tithing and yet I stopped when the road got rough and did not do what I knew to do in Christ. When I returned back to my right mind and was obedient despite the difficulty, God moved.
I know that not everyone agrees with tithing but I do. My experience, testimony and faith has always been proved by God honoring His word. For that reason, I am not swayed by the discussions against tithing. I can't refrain from something that God has proven Himself to me in unless He desires for me to. At this point, I don't believe that He does.
~Jrs_Lovely1 {iPad}
george baily said:not so much a testimony of tithing as one of giving and trusting, you equate it to be the "TITHE" yet you were simply giving unto the Lord. the tithe is in your mind, its not in the bible
I could use the same example, my spouse never gave more than a few bills to further the kingdom of God, after giving generously, my spouse got a raise matching the generous amount that was given, Its a testimony to giving and trusting
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