im very confused about tithing because.....

GaryArnold · Feb 22, 2012

jrslovely1 said:
I posted that 1 verse because it spoke about the "seed". My comment was regarding producing from the seed that is planted.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV) Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

The word seed in the above verse comes from the Hebrew word zera, which, according to the Hebrew dictionary, means FRUIT or PLANT.

The word increase in the above verse comes from the Hebrew word tebuah, which, according to the Hebrew dictionary, means PRODUCE; i.e. fruit, grain.

The word field in the above verse comes from the Hebrew word sadeh, which, according to the Hebrew dictionary, means field, ground, land, soil.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (NLT) You must set aside a tithe of your cropsone-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year.

Pastors love to take words such as "seed" from verses and use them totally out of context. Just another game pastors play with the mind of the church goer.

When you study the scriptures, you must read them IN CONTEXT, and without a Hebrews and Greek dictionary, it is difficult to get the real meaning of some of the words.

All4HISglory · Feb 22, 2012

GaryArnold said:
You say you tithe according to the scriptures. Please tell me which scriptures you tithe according to. You must be able to point out those scriptures if you are convinced you tithe according to the scriptures.

I said that I am Spirit led to tithe from my income according to the scriptures.

What I am saying is that I am settled in my spirit that my tithe is from my income so I tithe as scriptures direct tithing, with my income.

Every scripture that references tithe, I use my income since that is what I am capable of producing by the grace of God.

Again, you may not agree and that is ok by me. I believe in tithing and that's ok too.

~Jrs_Lovely1 {iPad}

All4HISglory · Feb 22, 2012

GaryArnold said:
Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV) Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

The word seed in the above verse comes from the Hebrew word zera, which, according to the Hebrew dictionary, means FRUIT or PLANT.

The word increase in the above verse comes from the Hebrew word tebuah, which, according to the Hebrew dictionary, means PRODUCE; i.e. fruit, grain.

The word field in the above verse comes from the Hebrew word sadeh, which, according to the Hebrew dictionary, means field, ground, land, soil.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (NLT) You must set aside a tithe of your cropsone-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year.

Pastors love to take words such as "seed" from verses and use them totally out of context. Just another game pastors play with the mind of the church goer.

When you study the scriptures, you must read them IN CONTEXT, and without a Hebrews and Greek dictionary, it is difficult to get the real meaning of some of the words.

I can appreciate the points that you made and agree with the text in context.

As I stated before, it's not about following what a man says (Pastor) it is about what is my Spirit to do. I believe that my tithe to God is what I am able to be sustained by. I'm sustained by going to work (work provided by God) and then earning a certain amount of money for that work. I believe that a tithe is given to God to honor what He has given you. He gave me the job that produces the money and I tithe according to that.

Some may agree, none may agree or 1 may agree. That's ok by me. I'm convinced and am led to do so.

It's not about following words that my Pastor or a Pastor puts out in the church. It's about what I am led to do within my own spirit from reading Gods Word and being obedient to it.

~Jrs_Lovely1 {iPad}

GaryArnold · Feb 22, 2012

jrslovely1 said:
I believe that a tithe is given to God to honor what He has given you. He gave me the job that produces the money and I tithe according to that.

You still haven't given any scripture showing what you are following. You merely say you substitute your income for the crops and animals.

Now, what did God say to do with His tithe?

There were three different tithes commanded by God. Only ONE of those tithes did God claim to be His. He defined that tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as a tenth of crops and animals. Okay, I understand you are substituting money from your income for the crops and animals. But in Numbers 18 God tells you what to do with His tithe. Are you following those instructions? Of course not. You are doing what your pastor said - bring the money to the church. Therefore, you may be tithing, but NOT according to ANY scripture.

Without someone telling you to tithe on your income, and to take it to the church, you could never come up with that from the scriptures. You were influenced by false teaching.

You claim the Spirit leads you to tithe. The ONLY way you can be sure it is the Holy Spirit talking to you is if what the Spirit tells you can be verified by scripture. If it can't be verified by scripture, it is another spirit. The Holy Spirit isn't going to contradict God's Word.

IF you claim to be paying the First tithe, it MUST go to the Levites OR you are disobeying God.

IF you claim to be tithing per Deut. 14:22-27, you and your family must eat the tithe before the Lord.

IF you claim to be tithing per Deut. 14:28-29, you must give the tithe to the poor.

The Spirit isn't going to direct you to "tithe" to any church. HOWEVER, the Holy Spirit may very well lead you to "give" a tenth of your income to the church. That is NOT paying the Biblical tithe.

GaryArnold · Feb 23, 2012

Many Christians claim to hear the Holy Spirit, but how can one be sure it is, in fact, the Holy Spirit and not another spirit, or just our own conscience?

There are cases when a murderer has claimed he committed the murder because the Holy Spirit told him to. Do you really think the Holy Spirit actually told him to kill someone?

I suggest researching this topic and discover how to discern whether it is the Holy Spirit leading you, or another spirit.

There are many resources available. Here is one example:

“If what you were told to do by a spirit, is contrary to the scripture, it was not the Holy Spirit speak to you but, Satan or one of his demons. God cannot go back on his word, and the Holy Spirit cannot tell you to do anything that is contrary to the scriptures.”
How To Know If It Is The Holy Spirit Talking To You
by Dr. James. A McBean. D.Th., MCC

I do not believe the Holy Spirit would ever tell anyone to tithe from their income, nor do I believe the Holy Spirit would tell anyone to take God's tithe to any church. I do believe, however, that the Holy Spirit might lead someone to give a tenth of their income to the church, which is NOT Biblically tithing.

The Holy Spirit will not lead you to do something that is contrary to God's Word.

During my in-dept studies of tithing, I have heard a spirit many times tell me something about the tithe. When comparing what I heard with the scriptures, some of the times I found what I heard was contrary to the scriptures; thus, I had to accept what I heard as being lies. But when I truly heard the Holy Spirit, He would also direct me to the scriptures where I could verify what He told me.

God wouldn't give us His Spirit without a way to verify its validity. And there is only ONE way. What the Holy Spirit says will always coincide with the scriptures.

The love of money is the root of all evil. What easier way could satan enter the church than through a money issue. The teaching of tithing is just another one of satan's games to confuse and divide the church. So-called "tithers" are playing right into the hands of satan and keep the confusion going.

CGL1023 · Feb 23, 2012

laceyintulsa said:
At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

One aspect of tithing is that when you tithe, you should only sow your seed into good ground. If you don't there can be no multiplication of 100x. Good ground is a church doing what Jesus specified in Mark 16:17, 18. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

GaryArnold · Feb 23, 2012

CGL1023 said:
One aspect of tithing is that when you tithe, you should only sow your seed into good ground. If you don't there can be no multiplication of 100x.

Sure like to see scripture for that!!

First of all, tithing was NEVER sowing seed. And what's this multiplication of 100x? Read your Bible, and read the verses IN CONTEXT.

Looks like you been watching Christian TV.

Music2jesus · Feb 23, 2012

Hello I am a Pastor here in Oregon and I feel your confussion about this matter. Jesus said give and it will be given to you and he also said the measure you give is measure you get back. The lord will bless you with what you need and yes it is important to give. If you do give and it comes from a loving heart than I believe you have done just what Jesus has ask. The most important thing is to put God first by talking with him about the things that you question. God is amazing and loving and you will be filled with your needs. God bless you richly

george baily · Feb 23, 2012

jrslovely1 said:
I said that I am Spirit led to tithe from my income according to the scriptures.

What I am saying is that I am settled in my spirit that my tithe is from my income so I tithe as scriptures direct tithing, with my income.

Every scripture that references tithe, I use my income since that is what I am capable of producing by the grace of God.

Again, you may not agree and that is ok by me. I believe in tithing and that's ok too.

~Jrs_Lovely1 {iPad}

So I was still wondering from what bases that you tithe, you say the Spirit leads you to tithe, but are you saying this Spirit is telling you that old testiment temple rituals are still in affect for you........I mean where did you learn this tradition of tithing was it while you were alone studying the scripture and the Holy Spirit spoke to you and said "I want you to tithe"......or is it something you learned in church and it seemed like a reasonable task, and the Holy Spirit is just in fact ALWAYS FOR GIVING!

george baily · Feb 23, 2012

Music2jesus said:
Hello I am a Pastor here in Oregon and I feel your confussion about this matter. Jesus said give and it will be given to you and he also said the measure you give is measure you get back. The lord will bless you with what you need and yes it is important to give. If you do give and it comes from a loving heart than I believe you have done just what Jesus has ask. The most important thing is to put God first by talking with him about the things that you question. God is amazing and loving and you will be filled with your needs. God bless you richly

I'm all for giving Pastor, just as you stated in the verses you posted AMEN! to the words of Jesus!, but do you teach the old testiment Levitical law of tithing is still in affect for Christians today?

Music2jesus · Feb 23, 2012

Yes I teach both for the fact I cant teach one without the other. ( Old and New testament.) Of course there many sciptures in the old taking of tithing and how important and lawful it is. In the new (Matthew 23:23) Says "You should tith yes but do not neglect the more imporant things."

To tith is to give and we must keep in mind that God comes first and then we use wisely what is left.. God dosent get sloppy seconds. To sum up give to God what is Gods. Peace to you.

GaryArnold · Feb 23, 2012

Music2jesus said:
Yes I teach both for the fact I cant teach one without the other. ( Old and New testament.) Of course there many sciptures in the old taking of tithing and how important and lawful it is. In the new (Matthew 23:23) Says "You should tith yes but do not neglect the more imporant things."

To tith is to give and we must keep in mind that God comes first and then we use wisely what is left.. God dosent get sloppy seconds. To sum up give to God what is Gods. Peace to you.

In Matthew 23:23 Jesus was speaking to the Scribes and Pharisees who were still under the Mosaic law. But notice Jesus said you PAY, not you give, and notice he also did NOT say they ought to pay tithes on their income from their professions as teachers and lawyers.

Why is it you say the tithe comes first when under the law, EVERY TENTH ANIMAL was the one tithed - the LAST ONE out of every ten?

OLD TESTAMENT
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

The New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.

God wants us to put Him first in our lives. Has NOTHING to do with tithing or giving to an organized corporation doing business as a "church."

Music2jesus · Feb 23, 2012

Amen !

GaryArnold · Feb 23, 2012

Music2jesus said:
To sum up give to God what is Gods.

Matthew 22:19-21 (KJV)
19 Show me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesars. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesars; and unto God the things that are Gods.

What does this tell us? The coin, or money, had the image of Caesar on it. Therefore, give the money to Caesar. Jesus didn't say give 90% to Caesar and a tenth to God.

WE are made in God's image; therefore, God wants us to give ourselves to Him. Has NOTHING to do with tithing.

george baily · Feb 23, 2012

Music2jesus said:
Yes I teach both for the fact I cant teach one without the other. ( Old and New testament.) Of course there many sciptures in the old taking of tithing and how important and lawful it is. In the new (Matthew 23:23) Says "You should tith yes but do not neglect the more imporant things."

To tith is to give and we must keep in mind that God comes first and then we use wisely what is left.. God dosent get sloppy seconds. To sum up give to God what is Gods. Peace to you.

well all I can say is the principle of giving unto the Lord is untouchable, I have found the more I give the more I have, there is no arguement that showing God He comes before your money is a good thing, especially after all the passages which talk about the difficulty a rich man has entering into heaven

. .....I only wish most churches could flourish with just giving offerings without trying to scare folks that their stealing from God, with a passage that is not even contextually correct in the light they use it. .......but I guess when your not a tent maker and your only means of survival is what you can collect from the people, then whatever it takes I guess?

Music2jesus · Feb 23, 2012

Yes Brother I agree

All4HISglory · Feb 23, 2012

GaryArnold said:
You still haven't given any scripture showing what you are following. You merely say you substitute your income for the crops and animals.

Now, what did God say to do with His tithe?

There were three different tithes commanded by God. Only ONE of those tithes did God claim to be His. He defined that tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as a tenth of crops and animals. Okay, I understand you are substituting money from your income for the crops and animals. But in Numbers 18 God tells you what to do with His tithe. Are you following those instructions? Of course not. You are doing what your pastor said - bring the money to the church. Therefore, you may be tithing, but NOT according to ANY scripture.

Without someone telling you to tithe on your income, and to take it to the church, you could never come up with that from the scriptures. You were influenced by false teaching.

You claim the Spirit leads you to tithe. The ONLY way you can be sure it is the Holy Spirit talking to you is if what the Spirit tells you can be verified by scripture. If it can't be verified by scripture, it is another spirit. The Holy Spirit isn't going to contradict God's Word.

IF you claim to be paying the First tithe, it MUST go to the Levites OR you are disobeying God.

IF you claim to be tithing per Deut. 14:22-27, you and your family must eat the tithe before the Lord.

IF you claim to be tithing per Deut. 14:28-29, you must give the tithe to the poor.

The Spirit isn't going to direct you to "tithe" to any church. HOWEVER, the Holy Spirit may very well lead you to "give" a tenth of your income to the church. That is NOT paying the Biblical tithe.

I sincerely appreciate your concern and all of the statements of truth you have made regarding this but our exchanges are sounding/feeling redundant. You can break down the scriptures, word and reword your comments and I will still tithe to my church.

Your belief is one way and mine is another. Every scripture that refers to tithing from, Genesis to Revelation, I believe in. I use the principle of tithing with my income to give back to God what He has freely given me. I give it to my local church in which I serve and serves me. I can't explain it any more then this and what I already have.

I was not influenced by false teaching or by man. I have my own relationship with God and seek Him for His leading, especially if it is something that is challenged or questioned. I believe in this for myself. Even if you don't agree that it is possible to be led by the Holy Spirit to pay tithes to the church from income, doesn't make it not possible. I'm led to do so and I know the difference between the unction of the Holy Ghost from my own emotions or an unclean spirit that is not of Him.

If I was in error of this, I don't think that there would be much evidence of His power in my life. Im humbled by the move of God that I experience regularly. Not only that, but if I was mislead, then I believe that God would not allow me to continue to go on mislead as long as I have. This isn't the first time I've heard all of this and I'm not hardening my heart against it. Im open to everything that is being said and I'm NOT refuting the word in which has been posted. I believe giving a tenth back to God (thru your local church), either Spirit led or by following scriptures is tithing (even though you have outline scriptures that refer to the tithe as being food or animal).

So again, I'm convinced for myself that tithing from income is right. I'm fine with it. You may have an issue with it and thats ok with me.

~Jrs_Lovely1 {iPad}

All4HISglory · Feb 23, 2012

george baily said:
So I was still wondering from what bases that you tithe, you say the Spirit leads you to tithe, but are you saying this Spirit is telling you that old testiment temple rituals are still in affect for you........I mean where did you learn this tradition of tithing was it while you were alone studying the scripture and the Holy Spirit spoke to you and said "I want you to tithe"......or is it something you learned in church and it seemed like a reasonable task, and the Holy Spirit is just in fact ALWAYS FOR GIVING!

I believe from reading the bible and from my relationship with God that everything that I am and that I have is from the hand of God.

I see the tithe as a way of giving back to God a portion of what He has freely given me. To me it's simple. It's not about old temple rituals and traditional etc etc. I am free from laws but am bound to Christ and am Spirit led to tithe. Its about relationship between my God and the blessings, grace and mercy in which He has given me.

The best way I can put it is this: I have heard men preach and teach distorted word and it did not sit right in my spirit. I have heard tithing preached and taught and never felt vexed about it. I have heard a call for offering out of the wrong spirit and knew that it was not God asking for this offering. I have heard a call for an offering and was unction'd to give freely. I knew it was an offering from the Lord.

I'm not confused or mislead. I have more wisdom then to sit back and be robbed.

I believed in tithing before I even heard it in a meeting. This is the only way I can answer your question about which came first. (no, it wasn't my conscious, mind or a spirit not of God. I know Gods voice and don't answer to another).

I am not ignorant to think that there aren't scammers but I have enough faith in Gods love and supremacy to believe that every church that practices tithing doesn't do it in an attempt to make man rich and divide the church.

I attend a tithing church. There are no paid staffers, to include my Pastors, except the musicians (2 of them) and they are paid maybe $30.00 every 2 weeks. We pay members hospital bills, utility bills, rent, food bills, vehicle maintenance. We feed the homeless every 2nd and 4th Friday of the month. We make meals for members who have just had babies or in the hospital. We pay the church building fees/bills and fund the auxiliaries (Youth Ministry trips, shirts). With every tithe and offering that comes in, it also goes out in service for the very same people.

~Jrs_Lovely1 {iPad}

GaryArnold · Feb 23, 2012

You said, "I use the principle of tithing with my income to give back to God what He has freely given me."

The principle of tithing, if there even is one, was NEVER giving back to God anything. You have the principle wrong; thus, your conclusion is wrong.

I will explain again. God NEVER asked or commanded anyone to give back to Him a portion of what man earns. That is an insult to God. God RESERVED a tenth of crops and animals from His increase, and directed that tenth be taken to the Levites.

How anyone can come up with a principle of giving back to God what one earns from the Biblical tithe is beyond my comprehension. It isn't logical, and merely proves my point that pastors who teach tithing has corrupted God's Word.

NO pastor ever taught tithing on one's income until 1870.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Fact is, you aren't tithing to God. You are giving a tenth of your income to an organized corporate business doing business as a "church." That is not giving to God to begin with. Just more lies from pastors.

Jesus told us the only way to give to Him is by giving to the poor/needy. Jesus NEVER said giving to the church is giving to Him.

It is obvious you are not open to studying the scriptures, but rather have your belief and will stick to it no matter what the scriptures say.

Unfortunately, since I am a Money & Finance Minister, and have discussed tithing with many pastors of many different denominations, I have learned from my own experience that some even admit to me that they know there is no Christian tithing, but they teach it anyway because it brings in more money. Pastors have admitted to me that the flat out lie to their members.

It is sad, but I don't trust what a pastors says any more than I trust what a used-car salesman says. Too many are liars.

Not all denominations teach tithing, and not all pastors of even a denomination like Baptist teach tithing. Most do, but some are knowledgeable, honest pastors who teach truth and won't compromise God's Word for any reason.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe. Trying to tithe today shows a denial that you are a part of this Royal Priesthood. It also denies what Jesus did on the cross. While you are trying to show appreciation and thanks to God, you are actually doing the opposite. Good thing God knows your intentions are good.

All4HISglory · Feb 23, 2012

GaryArnold said:
You said, "I use the principle of tithing with my income to give back to God what He has freely given me."

The principle of tithing, if there even is one, was NEVER giving back to God anything. You have the principle wrong; thus, your conclusion is wrong.

I will explain again. God NEVER asked or commanded anyone to give back to Him a portion of what man earns. That is an insult to God. God RESERVED a tenth of crops and animals from His increase, and directed that tenth be taken to the Levites.

How anyone can come up with a principle of giving back to God what one earns from the Biblical tithe is beyond my comprehension. It isn't logical, and merely proves my point that pastors who teach tithing has corrupted God's Word.

NO pastor ever taught tithing on one's income until 1870.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Fact is, you aren't tithing to God. You are giving a tenth of your income to an organized corporate business doing business as a "church." That is not giving to God to begin with. Just more lies from pastors.

Jesus told us the only way to give to Him is by giving to the poor/needy. Jesus NEVER said giving to the church is giving to Him.

It is obvious you are not open to studying the scriptures, but rather have your belief and will stick to it no matter what the scriptures say.

Unfortunately, since I am a Money & Finance Minister, and have discussed tithing with many pastors of many different denominations, I have learned from my own experience that some even admit to me that they know there is no Christian tithing, but they teach it anyway because it brings in more money. Pastors have admitted to me that the flat out lie to their members.

It is sad, but I don't trust what a pastors says any more than I trust what a used-car salesman says. Too many are liars.

Not all denominations teach tithing, and not all pastors of even a denomination like Baptist teach tithing. Most do, but some are knowledgeable, honest pastors who teach truth and won't compromise God's Word for any reason.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe. Trying to tithe today shows a denial that you are a part of this Royal Priesthood. It also denies what Jesus did on the cross. While you are trying to show appreciation and thanks to God, you are actually doing the opposite. Good thing God knows your intentions are good.

I'm sure that is your experience within your ministry as a Finance Minister. I appreciate that experience and knowledge.

It's not that I'm not open to truth or even what you have said. I have read every word and have tried to express my position to the best of my ability.

For me it comes down to my experience with the Lord. Doing what I believe concerning tithing has never led me wrong spiritually. You don't know me so you can't testify to the presence of God that is on my life but I can.

To all of a sudden turn and say that I don't believe in doing something that I do just to appease man when I believe what I'm doing pleases God, what benefit is it for me? It would be a lie. As much as I want to, I can't say to you "thank you for the knowledge in which you shared. You have shown me the light. I no longer believe I should be tithing." I do believe, even if others don't, I do.

I can't explain any further. I believe in tithing. I believe it is Godly. Just like you said, "thank God that He knows my heart." I trust in Him.

~Jrs_Lovely1 {iPad}

im very confused about tithing because.....

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