I'm tired of the "abolished" argument...

[LoveGodsWord]

I do not address links.

In my personal view, I do not think you have addressed anything in our discussions that disagree with you as shown from the scriptures and the scripture contexts and subject matter. The linked posts were only pointing you back to posts you were non-responsive to and to claims you were making that were not true. Of course you do not have to address anything in our discussions if you do not want to, as that is up to you. As posted earlier, I see no point in continuing our discussion and will leave it between you and God as I do not see you are open to correction here as to what you believe, although I see many have tried already. Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take care.

 

[chad kincham]

DEAD TO THE LAW (of Moses)

The law still applies to those it was intended for: carnal and unregenerate people without Gods indwelling spirit - which means all unconverted non Christians.

So the law indeed hasn’t passed away, nor been abolished, and it’s still in effect - for the unconverted - not for born again Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Christians are dead to the law, and now are married to Jesus instead of the law, and have been DELIVERED FROM the law:

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:6 But now WE ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the LETTER.

(read 2 Corinthians 3for more about the LETTER which kills, in the old covenant, vs the spirit that brings life, in the new).

You see, the law doesn’t apply to Christians, just to the unconverted, because the law is NOT MEANT for a RIGHTEOUS MAN, but for the UNGODLY and for MURDERERS:

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is NOT made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS, for the unholy and profane, for MURDERERS of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Because Christians are the righteousness of God in Christ, the law is null and void for us - who are now righteous by faith, not by works of the law of Moses:

Php 3:9 And be found in him, NOT having mine OWN righteousness, which is OF THE LAW, but that which is through the FAITH of Christ, the RIGHTEOUSNESS which is of God BY FAITH:

And this agrees:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested, being witnessed BY the law and the prophets;

The law still applies to those it was intended for: carnal, unregenerate people without Gods indwelling spirit (which is what Israel, who received the law, was) - which today means all unconverted, non Christians.

Christians have Gods indwelling Holy Spirit dwelling in them, thus are no longer under the law:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the (Holy) Spirit, ye are NOT under the law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Thus it hasn’t passed away, and isn’t abolished, it just doesn’t apply to those born again, since it’s only meant for the ungodly and murderers, etc. per 1 Tim 1:9 above.

And BEFORE faith came, we were imprisoned by the law, locked up by it until the coming of Christ, and now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian:

Gal 3:23 Now BEFORE FAITH CAME, we were held captive under the law, IMPRISONED until the COMING FAITH would be revealed.

Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian, UNTIL CHRIST CAME, in order that we might BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Gal 3:25 But NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME we are no longer under a guardian,

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the (Holy) Spirit, ye are NOT under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the (Holy) Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Christians don’t need an external law with the death penalty for breaking, (the law of Moses) because we are led by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and bear the fruit of the spirit - listed above - therefore we have died to the law.

This doesn’t exempt those who don’t let the Spirit lead them, who walk after their flesh, and not after the spirit - something Paul warned us against doing.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

DEAD TO THE LAW (of Moses)

The law still applies to those it was intended for: carnal and unregenerate people without Gods indwelling spirit - which means all unconverted non Christians.

So the law indeed hasn’t passed away, nor been abolished, and it’s still in effect - for the unconverted - not for born again Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Christians are dead to the law, and now are married to Jesus instead of the law, and have been DELIVERED FROM the law:

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:6 But now WE ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the LETTER.

(read 2 Corinthians 3for more about the LETTER which kills, in the old covenant, vs the spirit that brings life, in the new).

You see, law doesn’t apply to Christians, just to the unconverted, because the law is NOT MEANT for a RIGHTEOUS MAN, but for the UNGODLY and for MURDERERS:

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is NOT made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS, for the unholy and profane, for MURDERERS of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Because Christians are the righteousness of God in Christ, the law is null and void for us - who are now righteous by faith, not by works of the law of Moses:

Php 3:9 And be found in him, NOT having mine OWN righteousness, which is OF THE LAW, but that which is through the FAITH of Christ, the RIGHTEOUSNESS which is of God BY FAITH:

And this agrees:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested, being witnessed BY the law and the prophets;

The law still applies to those it was intended for: carnal, unregenerate people without Gods indwelling spirit (which is what Israel, who received the law, was) - which today means all unconverted, non Christians.

Christians have Gods indwelling Holy Spirit dwelling in them, thus are no longer under the law:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the (Holy) Spirit, ye are NOT under the law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Thus it hasn’t passed away, and isn’t abolished, it just doesn’t apply to those born again, since it’s only meant for the ungodly and murderers, etc. per 1 Tim 1:9 above.

And BEFORE faith came, we were imprisoned by the law, locked up by it until the coming of Christ, and now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian:

Gal 3:23 Now BEFORE FAITH CAME, we were held captive under the law, IMPRISONED until the COMING FAITH would be revealed.

Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian, UNTIL CHRIST CAME, in order that we might BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Gal 3:25 But NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME we are no longer under a guardian,

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the (Holy) Spirit, ye are NOT under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the (Holy) Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Christians don’t need an external law with the death penalty for breaking, (the law of Moses) because we are led by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and bear the fruit of the spirit - listed above - therefore we have died to the law.

This doesn’t exempt those who don’t let the Spirit lead them, who walk after their flesh, and not after the spirit - something Paul warned us against doing.

Good use of taking the scriptures to say what they do not mean. Are you opened to discussion or are you simply wanting to state what you believe?

 

[chad kincham]

Good use of twisting the scriptures to say what they do not mean.

It’s completely in context, try reading the entire post.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It’s completely in context, try reading the entire post.

My apologies, I was still editing my last post before you posted. I read your post. The scriptures you have provided do not support a belief that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. Just to be sure so there is no misunderstandings however, your interpretation of those scriptures is God's 10 commandments are abolished right? Are you opened to having your belief tested through the scriptures? I believe that belief system is not biblical and can show why the scriptures you posted do not support this view if your interested? If your not it is ok it is up to you.

 

[chad kincham]

My apologies, I was still editing my last post before you posted. I read your post. The scriptures you have provided do not support a belief that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. Just to be sure so there is no misunderstandings however, your interpretation of those scriptures is God's 10 commandments are abolished right? Are you opened to having your belief tested through the scriptures? I believe that belief system is not biblical and can show why the scriptures you posted do not support this view if your interested? If your not it is ok it is up to you.

Try reading 2 Corinthians 3, where Paul says the apostles are ministers of the new covenant of the spirit, which he contrasts with the ten commands given to Moses, which are the ministry of death, and condemnation, and the letter which kills, that has been done away with, replaced by the law of the spirit, which gives life.

The two love commands are far superior to the Decalogue, and have superseded the old ten commands, and there’s NO DAYS commanded to be kept at all in them, which is why those who insist on keeping the ended day of rest given only to Israel as part of an ended covenant, deny the two commands are what believers keep today.

Try reading Galatians 4:21-31, which states that the covenant given on Mount Sinai is bondage.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Try reading 2 Corinthians 3, where Paul says the apostles are ministers of the new covenant of the spirit, which he contrasts with the ten commands given to Moses, which are the ministry of death, and condemnation, and the letter which kills, that has been done away with, replaced by the law of the spirit, which gives life.

The two love commands are far superior to the Decalogue, and have superseded the old ten commands, and there’s NO DAYS commanded to be kept at all in them, which is why those who insist on keeping the ended day of rest given only to Israel as part of an ended covenant, deny the two commands are what believers keep today.

Try reading Galatians 4:21-31, which states that the covenant given on Mount Sinai is bondage.

I have read them how do you interpret them? Let's discuss the scripture detail and test what we believe bringing everything to the light of Gods' Word. According to the scriptures love is not separate to Gods' law. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law (see Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 and 1 John 5:2-3) in all those who have been born again (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9) into God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) to walk in Gods' Spirit (Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:4) through faith (Romans 3:31). Love and faith therefore are how God's law is established in the lives of all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods Word says. Therefore love and faith do not delete Gods law they establish it.

Take Care.

 

[Clare73]

I am sorry I do not believe you as shown why in the posts and scriptures that you have not been responsive to. Everything in your last two posts here (and elsewhere in our discussion) is repetition already addressed with detailed scriptures responses. So I do not feel the need to repeat myself again to you while you simply are not responsive and continue to ignore the content of my posts and scriptures shared only in love and as a help to you. Your claims here once again are not being truthful and non-responsive to the posts you are quoting from. I say this because you were even provided scripture showing that you cannot have justification without God's forgiveness because Gods' forgiveness of sin results in Gods justification of sin (Luke 18:10-14 and 1 John 3:4).

Even the Greek word "justified" as shown earlier, means to be declared innocent and righteous. You cannot be declared innocent and righteous if you are still standing before God guilty of sin. We can only be declared righteous before God by receiving God's forgiveness through faith.
I asked you many questions in this regard and in regards. You have ignored all of them.

Then I apologize. . .and will do so now.

By faith the atonement of Jesus Christ is applied to my penalty/debt for sin, and God's justice is satisfied regarding my sin, which is the meaning of "atonement."

Payment and removal of that debt, which is forgiveness, saves me from the wrath of God (Romans 5:9) in justice on my sin, which is salvation.

However, removal of my debt (forgiveness) does not make me righteous, it only makes me debt-free (forgiven).

God credits/imputes Christ's righteousness to me and declares me righteous, which is JUSTIFICATION,
just as he did with Abraham (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3), apart from any works of faith.

Then I enter into a life of obedience in the Holy Spirit which is righteousness leading to holiness; i.e., SANCTIFICATION (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19).

So the NT presents two forms of righteousness:
imputed = justification, righteousness by faith, as it was to Abraham and those of faith in Jesus Christ,
imparted = sanctification, righteousness by faithful obedience in the Holy Spirit, which is righteousness leading to holiness.

Hope this helps, sorry for my misunderstanding.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then I apologize. . .and will do so now.

By faith the atonement of Jesus Christ is applied to my penalty/debt for sin, and God's justice is satisfied regarding my sin, which is the meaning of "atonement."

Payment of that debt saves me from the wrath of God (Romans 5:9) in justice on my sin, which is salvation.

However, removal of my debt (forgiveness) does not make me righteous, it only makes me debt-free (forgiven).

God credits/imputes Christ's righteousness to me and declares me righteous, which is JUSTIFICATION,
just as he did with Abraham (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3), apart from any works of faith.

Then I enter into a life of obedience in the Holy Spirit which is righteousness leading to holiness; i.e., SANCTIFICATION (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19).

So the NT presents two forms of righteousness:
imputed = justification, righteousness by faith, as it was to Abraham and those of faith in Jesus Christ,
imparted - sanctification, righteousness by faithful obedience in the Holy Spirit, which is righteousness leading to holiness.

Hope this helps, sorry for my misunderstanding.

Thanks for having a go at the post Clare. You did not address the post and problem put to you in the post you were quoting from in regards to God's forgiveness not being separate from Gods justification. Let me ask the question again and work through it together comparing scriptures. The question here is "How can you be declared "innocent and righteous" from sin which is the definition of being "justified" if you are still standing before God guilty of sin and have not received God's forgiveness? I am not asking about the process. My question here for clarification is showing contradiction because no one can be declared righteous or innocent (justified) before God without first receiving God's forgiveness of sins because we all have sinned *Romans 3:9-20.

We can only be declared innocent and righteous (justified) before God by receiving God's forgiveness through faith. God's forgiveness and justification of sin are not separate from each other. God's promise of forgiveness leads us to being justified before God. This is demonstrated in the scriptures. For example in Luke 18:10-14 where it is written; Jesus here is talking about two men who went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee said to God in the temple, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. Then the publican standing afar off, would not even lift up so much his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Jesus tells us here that this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. Why? Because he confessed his sins to God and Jesus says he was "justified" (Forgiven) rather than the other.

God's promise therefore is "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleans us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9. If we have been cleansed from all unrighteousness through Gods' forgiveness we have been justified which means to be declared innocent (forgiven) and made righteous before God.

Can you see we are justified by God's forgiveness of our sins through the scriptures provided in Luke 18:10-14 and 1 John 1:9? Are you in agreement with the above? If not what are you not in agreement in this post and why do you not agree?

Take Care.

 

[Clare73]

Thanks for having a go at the post Clare. However, have you considered that justification is not the same as sanctification and do you know the difference?

Aw, c'mon guy! . .I explained both, in post #108, which explanation (in the red) shows their difference.

What is it you are not seeing?

You did not address the post and problem put to you in the post you were quoting from. Let me ask the question again and work through it comparing scriptures. The question here is "How can you be declared "innocent and righteous" from sin which is the definition of being "justified" if you are still standing before God guilty of sin and have not received God's forgiveness?

Did you read my post? Did I not explain each of them one by one (in the green) in post #108?

What is it you are not seeing there?

I am not asking about the process. My question here for clarification is showing contradiction because no one can be declared righteous or innocent (justified) before God without first receiving God's forgiveness of sins because we all have sinned *Romans 3:9-20. We can only be declared innocent and righteous (justified) before God by receiving God's forgiveness through faith.

I can think of only one other way to help you see.

Repeat back to me what you understand I said about each:
atonement
salvation
forgiveness
justification
sanctification

God's forgiveness and justification of sin are not separate from each other. God's promise of forgiveness leads us to being justified before God. This is demonstrated in the scriptures. For example in Luke 18:10-14 where it is written; talking about the two men who went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee said to God in the temple, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. Then the publican standing afar off, would not even lift up so much his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Jesus tells us here that this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. Why? Because he confessed his sins to God and Jesus says he was "justified" rather than the other. God's promise therefore is "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleans us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9. Are you in agreement with the above? If not what are you not in agreement in this post and why do you not agree?

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Aw, c'mon guy! . .I explained both, which explanation in red shows their difference.

What is it you are not seeing?

Did you read my post? Did I not explain each one by one in green?

What is it you are not seeing there?

I can think of only one other way to help you see.

Repeat back to me what you understand I said about each:
atonement
salvation
forgiveness
justification
sanctification

Clare let me edit my previous post and remove the question about justification and sanctification. I agree you did show a difference my bad there and I apologize. If you read the rest of my post though on justification and God's forgiveness, I did state there that I am not asking about the process of God's forgiveness and justification. The rest of your post therefore is non-responsive to the post you are quoting from and does not answer any of the questions asked of you as demonstrated through the scriptures in the post you are quoting from in regards to Gods' forgiveness not being separate from justification. Did you want to have another go? The focus here of my post is that we cannot have God's justification without God's forgiveness which is demonstrated in the scriptures provided there.

Take care.

 

[Clare73]

Clare let me edit my previous post and remove the question about justification and sanctification. I agree you did show a difference my bad there and I apologize. If you read the rest of my post though on justification and God's forgiveness, I did state there that
I am not asking about the process of God's forgiveness and justification.

I didn't give you a "process," I gave you the meaning of the terms, which shows their difference, as you acknowledge.

And until you repeat the meanings of those five terms back to me, I cannot assume you really understand them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I didn't give you a "process," I gave you the meaning of the terms. And until you repeat the meanings of those five terms back to me, I cannot assume you really understand them.

Actually no you didn't and I did not ask you for meanings and terms. You were simply non-responsive to the post content you were quoting from and did not address any questions or scripture content in post # 109 as you seem to do with most of my posts. It is ok, you do not have to if you do not want to it is up to you. Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take care.

 

[Clare73]

Actually no you didn't.

Which simply demonstrates my point.

Until you can repeat the meanings of those five terms back to me, you do not understand them, as demonstrated in this post.

Until you do that, we cannot go forward on anything. . .for obvious reasons.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Which simply demonstrates my point.

Until you can repeat the meanings of those five terms back to me, you do not understand them, as demonstrated in this post.

Until you do that, we cannot go forward on anything. . .for obvious reasons.

Sorry I am not interested in your posts that are non-responsive to the scripture and content of my posts. I asked you the question How can you be declared "justified" which means being declared "innocent and righteous" from sin, if you are still standing before God guilty of sin and have not received God's forgiveness? I am not asking about the process of how to be justified or the meanings or terms. My question here for clarification is showing contradiction to your claims that justification is separate from Gods' forgiveness because the answer is, no one can be declared righteous or innocent (justified) before God without first receiving God's forgiveness of sins because we all have sinned *Romans 3:9-20. The rest of post # 109 simply then goes on to prove this from the scriptures in Luke 18:10-14 and 1 John 1:9 from which I asked at the end, are in agreement or not and if you do not agree, what exactly are you not in agreement about? All of which you ignored and do not want to talk about because everything in the post you are unresponsive to disagrees with your teachings. As posted earlier, if you do not want to discuss post # 109 just say so you do not have to if you do not want to. Lets not waste each others time here any more.

Take care

 

[chad kincham]

I have read them how do you interpret them? Let's discuss the scripture detail and test what we believe bringing everything to the light of Gods' Word. According to the scriptures love is not separate to Gods' law. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law (see Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 and 1 John 5:2-3) in all those who have been born again (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9) into God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) to walk in Gods' Spirit (Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:4) through faith (Romans 3:31). Love and faith therefore are how God's law is established in the lives of all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods Word says. Therefore love and faith do not delete Gods law they establish it.

Take Care.

The two love commands are in the Old Testament, but there’s not one drop of love for your neighbor in the Decalogue, and the penalty for breaking them is death.

The two love commands are still for us today, not the Decalogue. The two are far superior to the ten, because 6 of the the ten, as pertaining to how we treat our neighbors, are negative commands that only limit the amount of harm you do to someone, but does not require that we do anything positive to help them in any way.

There’s not one drop of faith or grace in the law of Moses, either - it’s 100% works based. Scripture says faith and grace came when Jesus did.

The law of Moses was given to carnal and unregenerate people without Gods spirit indwelling them - and that’s who the law still applies to today - to carnal and unregenerate non-Christians.

Christians are not under the law of Moses, including the ten commands, including the 4th command.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The two love commands are in the Old Testament, but there’s not one drop of love for your neighbor in the Decalogue, and the penalty for breaking them is death.

The two love commands are still for us today, not the Decalogue. The two are far superior to the ten, because 6 of the the ten, as pertaining to how we treat our neighbors, are negative commands that only limit the amount of harm you do to someone, but does not require that we do anything positive to help them in any way.

There’s not one drop of faith or grace in the law of Moses, either - it’s 100% works based. Scripture says faith and grace came when Jesus did.

The law of Moses was given to carnal and unregenerate people without Gods spirit indwelling them - and that’s who the law still applies to today - to carnal and unregenerate non-Christians.

Christians are not under the law of Moses, including the ten commands, including the 4th command.

As posted in the post you are quoting from, being born again in the Spirit to love is a part of God's new covenant promise to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. According to the scriptures, Gods new covenant promise of love is not separate to Gods' law. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law (see Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3) in all those who have been born again (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9) into God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) to walk in Gods' Spirit (Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:4) through faith (Romans 3:31). Love and faith therefore are how God's law is established in the lives of all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods Word says. Therefore love and faith do not delete Gods law they establish it. No one therefor can claim to love God or their fellow man by breaking God's law which is why Jesus says on these two commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets. We are in the new covenant now not the old.

Take Care.

 

[Clare73]

Sorry I am not interested in your posts that are non-responsive to the scripture and content of my posts. I asked you the question How can you be declared "justified" which means being declared "innocent and righteous" from sin, if you are still standing before God guilty of sin and have not received God's forgiveness?

You do not read the posts addressed to you, as demonstrated in your post #109, you just repeat your mantra as a reply.

Yours above was answered in post #108.

I am not asking about the process of how to be justified or the meanings or terms. My question here for clarification is showing contradiction to your claims that justification is separate from Gods' forgiveness because the answer is, no one can be declared righteous or innocent (justified) before God without first receiving God's forgiveness of sins because we all have sinned *Romans 3:9-20. The rest of post # 109 simply then goes on to prove this from the scriptures in Luke 18:10-14 and 1 John 1:9 from which I asked at the end, are in agreement or not and if you do not agree, what exactly are you not in agreement about? All of which you ignored and do not want to talk about because everything in the post you are unresponsive to disagrees with your teachings. As posted earlier, if you do not want to discuss post # 109 just say so you do not have to if you do not want to. Lets not waste each others time here any more.

Take care

Non-responsive. . .you did not address the Greek definition of "justification," you merely denied it.

We cannot go any farther on anything, no matter how many false claims you choose to present, until you repeat back the explanations in post #110 which you requested in post #100.

I will not be responding until you do so.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You do not read the posts addressed to you, as demonstrated in your post #109, you just repeat your mantra as a reply.

Yours above was answered in post #108.

We cannot go any farther until you repeat back the explanations in post #108 which you requested.

Non-responsive.

Sorry I do not believe you as shown why from the questions asked of you and from the scriptures that have been shared with you. Your post here once more is non-responsive to the content in the post you are quoting from again.

Take Care.

 

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